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Post by max on Jul 22, 2023 18:01:40 GMT
Just to clarify, I wasn't dissing on Bogyo. I actually quite enjoyed his performance, but rather I quite like seeing understudies, especially after seeing the main cast several times! It's not unknown for me to book a last minute show based on WestEnd Understudies tweets! No bother, that's the way it read to me originally. I'm sure understudies appreciate audience members who like to see the subtle or major changes that a different performer brings to a show. It's no insult to the 'main cast' member.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 26, 2023 6:25:17 GMT
Well, Laura P-P was good and I liked the new ending.
*end of positives*
This lame production just highlights the flaws in the piece which Gale Edwards and Double-Denim somehow managed to smooth over
The changes to the text have not helped anything at all
JB just stands there while MB gesticulates and then gesticulates with a limp in act 2. wow.give that man a medal. The band dont sound live, is that why we occasionally see them?
Johanthan Kent and Denni Sayers must be embarrassed!
The artisty of the backdrops is impressive but they dont fit with the production, but then what does? The whole evening, sadly feels like a mess.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jul 26, 2023 8:04:02 GMT
Well he sure misses a lot of shows.. He’s missed 3 (three). 2 of which were scheduled. He doesn’t “miss a lot of shows.” You seem persistently rude about Bogyo which IMHO is unfair and unnecessary. He was terrible in Moulin, and he’s terrible in this. Facts are facts.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 26, 2023 8:22:46 GMT
He’s missed 3 (three). 2 of which were scheduled. He doesn’t “miss a lot of shows.” You seem persistently rude about Bogyo which IMHO is unfair and unnecessary. He was terrible in Moulin, and he’s terrible in this. Facts are facts. In Aspects his voice sounded nothing special at all. Is he employed to make MB look and sound better?
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 9:21:52 GMT
He’s missed 3 (three). 2 of which were scheduled. He doesn’t “miss a lot of shows.” You seem persistently rude about Bogyo which IMHO is unfair and unnecessary. He was terrible in Moulin, and he’s terrible in this. Facts are facts. You said he misses a lot of shows. He’s missed 3 (three). 2 of which were scheduled. He doesn’t “miss a lot of shows.” You may not like him but that doesn't mean you can make things up. Well you can. But you shouldn't.
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Post by danb on Jul 26, 2023 9:48:49 GMT
In ‘Moulin Rouge’ his voice sounded workmanlike at best. I had no idea what the fuss was about (the less said about the acting the better). I had hoped that he would sound better in a more legit MT role, but the reports from here say not.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jul 26, 2023 10:30:07 GMT
In ‘Moulin Rouge’ his voice sounded workmanlike at best. I had no idea what the fuss was about (the less said about the acting the better). I had hoped that he would sound better in a more legit MT role, but the reports from here say not. He can get the notes, but there's no power behind it, it's all a bit thin sounding.
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 10:37:27 GMT
In ‘Moulin Rouge’ his voice sounded workmanlike at best. I had no idea what the fuss was about (the less said about the acting the better). I had hoped that he would sound better in a more legit MT role, but the reports from here say not. He can get the notes, but there's no power behind it, it's all a bit thin sounding. Exactly this. He hits the notes and his pitch and tone are fine. His power can be suboptimal. And it’s hit/miss whether he makes it to the last microsecond of the LCE Act 1 finale. Which is a shame. But he’s hardly the first Alex to struggle here. He may not be the best on a West End stage but I’ve seen far worse. Reports of “how terrible” he is are exaggerated to the point of losing impact and credibility and it makes me doubt reliability and integrity of said posters opinions. Just sounds like the proverbial grinding axe.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 26, 2023 10:39:06 GMT
His attendance has been great but his performance not so much
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 10:40:03 GMT
As for Moulin Rouge, the direction has a lot to answer for. Across London and Cologne I’ve seen 5 Satines and 5 Christians and never massively cared about any of their characters!
(Off topic I know, but Tanisha came the closest!)
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jul 26, 2023 10:45:38 GMT
I saw this again on Monday, specifically to not see MB and see Dave Willetts instead.
It feels like a much more ensemble show without MB and LPP really owns the show without having MB taking the limelight. I love that she gets the final bow when hes not on.
Dave Willets is obviously much older than MB and despite singing it the octave down, struggled with the final note in LCE. Although George was an older guy in the original, I would have preferred someone aged between MB and DW in this production.
I loved the alternate Guiietta too.
There were a few things i noticed this time; George travels from Italy or Paris to get home, and immediately turns around and leaves again, the view from Giulietta's studio in Venice changes between the first and second act, Bogyo acts with his hands and it's distracting.
I still really enjoyed the show and hearing the wonderful orchestra, but the 2 reveals still confuse me.
Seeing the show again makes me realise how OTT those people are, who think the show is 'ICKY' and that was their entire take away from the show. It crosses Alex's mind for not even 5 mons and doesn't really act on it. Way too much clutching of the pearls going on.
I still think the design is wrong for this
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 26, 2023 11:50:02 GMT
I've seen Dave a couple times now and he doesn't always belt the final note the same way Michael does- more of a diminuendo- but still enjoyably resonant. Something on Youtube btw. And personally think his 'Other Pleasures', 'The First Man You Remember' (the 'softer' singing) are gorgeous.
Also, LCE in this production is 3 keys down from the original version, not an octave.
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Post by max on Jul 26, 2023 12:00:34 GMT
He’s missed 3 (three). 2 of which were scheduled. He doesn’t “miss a lot of shows.” You seem persistently rude about Bogyo which IMHO is unfair and unnecessary. He was terrible in Moulin, and he’s terrible in this. Facts are facts. Lies are lies when it comes to a performer's commitment to their job. Stop. Reputational damage isn't funny.
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Post by danb on Jul 26, 2023 12:04:17 GMT
Reports of “how terrible” he is are exaggerated to the point of losing impact and credibility and it makes me doubt reliability and integrity of said posters opinions. Just sounds like the proverbial grinding axe. [/quote]
How so? Christian is a massive sing, and when they rolled JB out to great fanfare I assumed they’d gone American because they couldn’t find what they needed here, or had found the second coming. The fact that Muscato has come in and proven them otherwise (when he was here all along, next to Houchen and Jaden and all our other great voices) just goes to show they should have some faith in homegrown talent. Zoe Birkett was a stunning Satine, and there all along. I personally have nothing to gain or lose from stating ‘my truth’. Just, y’know, having sn opinion and stuff.
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 12:08:45 GMT
Reports of “how terrible” he is are exaggerated to the point of losing impact and credibility and it makes me doubt reliability and integrity of said posters opinions. Just sounds like the proverbial grinding axe. How so? Christian is a massive sing, and when they rolled JB out to great fanfare I assumed they’d gone American because they couldn’t find what they needed here. The fact that Muscato has come in and proven them otherwise (when he was here all along, next to Houchen and Jaden and all our other great voices) just goes to show they should have some faith in homegrown talent. Zoe Birkett was a stunning Satine, and there all along. I personally have nothing to gain or lose from stating ‘my truth’. Just, y’know, having sn opinion and stuff. [/quote] Oh I was mainly talking about Aspects. But appreciate I then drifted to MR. But the point stands. It’s because he isn’t terrible. He’s unremarkable or mediocre at worst. The hyperbole isn’t objective. Muscato is better. Doesn’t make Bogyo terrible. FWIW I agree with you that MR should have picked home grown talent.
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Post by danb on Jul 26, 2023 12:18:08 GMT
Reports of “how terrible” he is are exaggerated to the point of losing impact and credibility and it makes me doubt reliability and integrity of said posters opinions. Just sounds like the proverbial grinding axe. How so? Christian is a massive sing, and when they rolled JB out to great fanfare I assumed they’d gone American because they couldn’t find what they needed here. The fact that Muscato has come in and proven them otherwise (when he was here all along, next to Houchen and Jaden and all our other great voices) just goes to show they should have some faith in homegrown talent. Zoe Birkett was a stunning Satine, and there all along. I personally have nothing to gain or lose from stating ‘my truth’. Just, y’know, having sn opinion and stuff. Oh I was mainly talking about Aspects. But appreciate I then drifted to MR. But the point stands. It’s because he isn’t terrible. He’s unremarkable or mediocre at worst. The hyperbole isn’t objective. Muscato is better. Doesn’t make Bogyo terrible. FWIW I agree with you that MR should have picked home grown talent. [/quote] Agreed. It took long enough to get here and when it did it was the two leads (and appallingly unfocussed direction) that let if down.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jul 26, 2023 14:05:44 GMT
He was terrible in Moulin, and he’s terrible in this. Facts are facts. Lies are lies when it comes to a performer's commitment to their job. Stop. Reputational damage isn't funny. I don’t imagine someone commenting on a message board is going to affect his career. Stop. Let’s not get carried away. Stop.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 26, 2023 14:25:06 GMT
Lies are lies when it comes to a performer's commitment to their job. Stop. Reputational damage isn't funny. I don’t imagine someone commenting on a message board is going to affect his career. Stop. Let’s not get carried away. Stop. This fun back-and-forth could've been totally avoided if an opinion ('terrible') hadn't been presented as a 'fact' though...
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jul 26, 2023 14:31:25 GMT
Apologies for saying ‘fact’….of course it is my opinion let only.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 26, 2023 17:49:03 GMT
Aaaand with that, let’s move on please.
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Post by toomasj on Jul 26, 2023 17:52:23 GMT
Just to lighten the mood, bad/good as this may be, for those who saw it has to be better than the David Essex tour. I felt genuinely depressed - and not because of the story.
Poor (then relatively young) Matthew Rawle.
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Post by andypandy on Jul 26, 2023 18:08:30 GMT
He’s missed 3 (three). 2 of which were scheduled. He doesn’t “miss a lot of shows.” You seem persistently rude about Bogyo which IMHO is unfair and unnecessary. He was terrible in Moulin, and he’s terrible in this. Facts are facts. THIS. He was AWFUL! How on earth would any producer choose him out of all the Mountview Guildford Arts Ed etc boys out there? Ego because he went to Rada? I don’t get it. I’m sure he’s a really nice guy but speaking professionally he’s goofy uncomfortable to watch on stage, pulls odd faces when he sings and not the best singer OR actor. You need eye candy and real swagger for the lead role of Alex. Without it the show is dead - and it was. This is a professional opinion and not about the guy himself, I don’t know him. Sorry
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Post by chernjam on Jul 26, 2023 19:00:58 GMT
Just to lighten the mood, bad/good as this may be, for those who saw it has to be better than the David Essex tour. I felt genuinely depressed - and not because of the story. Poor (then relatively young) Matthew Rawle. The David Essex tour wasn't the one that Gale Edwards directed, was it? If I remember correctly hers was similar to the Canadian/US Tour which opened a year or two after it closed on Broadway. Digging up old articles that I had collected at the time, it was amazing how much better received the US Tour (and Edwards) was received by critics, with some going to print saying how their entire impression of the show had flip flopped with these which had pretty much the original score in tact with minor edits and the set design being sheer curtains/lighting and a few props.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 26, 2023 19:34:34 GMT
Please read our rules before reporting posts. Members are allowed to dislike and comment on professional performances. If you don’t like this I’m afraid you are in the wrong place. If you would like to block a member, details are here theatreboard.co.uk/post/256470/threadPlease don’t try to moderate the forum. We have people to do that. Thank you.
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Post by jarnew on Jul 26, 2023 19:40:37 GMT
Reading all the negativity here, I just quickly wanted to say I really enjoyed Jamie's Alex (and would love to see him again in something else once this production closes). I thought he was such a perfect fit for this role, his acting and mannerisms really won me over. I also saw Vinny Coyle's Alex the night he made his debut, and while he might be a bit better when it comes to technicality, I feel like Jamie really puts on a very complete and living performance of Alex that I'd love to see again.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jul 26, 2023 19:50:25 GMT
The Gale Edward production came into the West End in 1993 just a year after the original closed. It had a fantastic cast led by Katherine Evans, who was one of the best Rose's ive seen. I don't know why it stuck in my mind, but they had a set piece of the front engine of the train at the station, and then it turned around to become the carriage in which they sing Seeing Is Believing.
The Toronto production was a different prodiction to the Gale Edwards', I believe. The Toronto/US Tour set was alot of billowing fabrics if i'm remembering that right and on a much smaller scale that other versions before it.
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Post by princeton on Jul 27, 2023 1:02:28 GMT
The Gale Edwards' production originated in Australia in 1992 where it was well received and so it was decided that it should be used for the UK tour, which came into the Prince of Wales. Kevin Colson reprised his role of George in the Australian incarnation (and also played it for a final time in a short uk tour after the west end revival).
The Canada production, which began at the Citadel Theatre in Edmonton in 1991, was directed by Robin Phillips. It did an extended run in Toronto before touring the US.
The original Trevor Nunn production actually made a brief reappearance in 1997 when it played Dublin and Cork - with Rebecca Storm as Rose and John Barrowman as Alex.
The David Essex/Matt Rawle version, in 2007, was directed by Nikolai Foster.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 27, 2023 6:59:35 GMT
The Gale Edward production came into the West End in 1993 just a year after the original closed. It had a fantastic cast led by Katherine Evans, who was one of the best Rose's ive seen. I don't know why it stuck in my mind, but they had a set piece of the front engine of the train at the station, and then it turned around to become the carriage in which they sing Seeing Is Believing. The Toronto production was a different prodiction to the Gale Edwards', I believe. The Toronto/US Tour set was alot of billowing fabrics if i'm remembering that right and on a much smaller scale that other versions before it. In the GE tour I remember so vividly the train appearing, travelling forward through mist and parting curtains before if finally span round to reveal the inside of the carriage - pure theatrical magic. The set was lots of muslin curtains giving endless dissolves into the next scene. The stage was peppered with chorus members in picture perfect poses of embracing, playing boule, promenading in Venice etc Such a classy production. I'm glad I saw it twice.
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Post by barrowside on Jul 27, 2023 9:19:09 GMT
The Gale Edwards' production originated in Australia in 1992 where it was well received and so it was decided that it should be used for the UK tour, which came into the Prince of Wales. Kevin Colson reprised his role of George in the Australian incarnation (and also played it for a final time in a short uk tour after the west end revival). The Canada production, which began at the Citadel Theatre in Edmonton in 1991, was directed by Robin Phillips. It did an extended run in Toronto before touring the US. The original Trevor Nunn production actually made a brief reappearance in 1997 when it played Dublin and Cork - with Rebecca Storm as Rose and John Barrowman as Alex. The David Essex/Matt Rawle version, in 2007, was directed by Nikolai Foster. No, the production in 1997 that played Dublin and Cork with Rebecca Storm and John Barrowman wasn't the original Trevor Nunn one. It was a local Irish production directed by Michael Scott and designed by Bronwen Casson.
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Post by princeton on Jul 27, 2023 11:05:46 GMT
No, the production in 1997 that played Dublin and Cork with Rebecca Storm and John Barrowman wasn't the original Trevor Nunn one. It was a local Irish production directed by Michael Scott and designed by Bronwen Casson. Sorry for the mistake and thanks for the correction. I had a very vague recollection of being told at the time that it was going to be the Nunn version. As I'd worked on the Edwards' first tour/WE - I thought it surprising because I was under the assumption that it would never be seen again, but thought that maybe someone in Ireland had very deep pockets (or Trevor was doing it to save face - his version having effectively been dumped). I guess I should have checked before posting - though it's not that easy to find info about productions in the 1990s.
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