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Post by singingbird on Feb 6, 2022 10:41:11 GMT
Fantastic to see such discussion of this movie. I love it and feel like it's really neglected. It just exudes power and ferocity, somehow, and is exactly what I want film musicals to be and so rarely are (a totally sweep-you-up experience). Of course, it helps that Evita is arguably both Lloyd Webber and Rice's finest work, individually or together, catching them both at that sweet spot where they are assured/polished and yet still pushing boundaries and exhibiting youthful swagger.
The double CD is one of my most played recordings of any musical. But I do get frustrated that, despite there being lots of recordings of Evita, none is quite perfect. I love the orchestrations on the film cast - it is rich and orchestral but also unafraid of the fact that it is indebted to both heavy rock (perfectly capturing the rabble-rousing politics and murky goings on) and classical modernism. I also enjoy the inclusion of The Lady's Got Potential, with a staggeringly clever lyric re-write to fit the new context. That can't have been an easy task! However, it also edits the score, and switches things around in places, which I find annoying.
Both the OLC and OBC are fine (OBC obviously more complete, so much better) but I find the original stage orchestrations weak and weedy. The most complete recording of the score has to be the Elena Roger Broadway recording. The new orchestrations are great here, but I find Ricky Martin's Che almost unlistenable, and it just ruins everything for me.
Hands down IMO the finest vocal take of the title character is Julie Covington. I find her performance utterly spine-tingling and terrifying in equal measure. I've rarely heard a musical theatre performance like it. I love the feel of the original recording, too. But the show evolved so much after this recording that it doesn't quite feel like the same show, somehow.
I doubt there will ever be the market demand for yet another complete Evita recording - I just wish one of the ones we already have ticked all the boxes!
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Post by scarpia on Feb 6, 2022 11:01:27 GMT
Fantastic to see such discussion of this movie. I love it and feel like it's really neglected. It just exudes power and ferocity, somehow, and is exactly what I want film musicals to be and so rarely are (a totally sweep-you-up experience). Of course, it helps that Evita is arguably both Lloyd Webber and Rice's finest work, individually or together, catching them both at that sweet spot where they are assured/polished and yet still pushing boundaries and exhibiting youthful swagger. The double CD is one of my most played recordings of any musical. But I do get frustrated that, despite there being lots of recordings of Evita, none is quite perfect. I love the orchestrations on the film cast - it is rich and orchestral but also unafraid of the fact that it is indebted to both heavy rock (perfectly capturing the rabble-rousing politics and murky goings on) and classical modernism. I also enjoy the inclusion of The Lady's Got Potential, with a staggeringly clever lyric re-write to fit the new context. That can't have been an easy task! However, it also edits the score, and switches things around in places, which I find annoying. Both the OLC and OBC are fine (OBC obviously more complete, so much better) but I find the original stage orchestrations weak and weedy. The most complete recording of the score has to be the Elena Roger Broadway recording. The new orchestrations are great here, but I find Ricky Martin's Che almost unlistenable, and it just ruins everything for me. Hands down IMO the finest vocal take of the title character is Julie Covington. I find her performance utterly spine-tingling and terrifying in equal measure. I've rarely heard a musical theatre performance like it. I love the feel of the original recording, too. But the show evolved so much after this recording that it doesn't quite feel like the same show, somehow. I doubt there will ever be the market demand for yet another complete Evita recording - I just wish one of the ones we already have ticked all the boxes! I'm still furious we didn't get a double CD of the London revival, because that had a better cast, Elena Roger was in better form, and the orchestra sounded magnificent on it. Apparently ALW and Tim Rice agreed (I wrote in as I thought it was a missed opportunity, particularly because of those reorchestrations) but the decision was taken by RUG at the time only to provide a highlights album, despite the fact that the only recording of the full West End/Broadway stage show up to that point was the OBC. So when the Broadway revival said they would do a recording, I thought...yes, here's the chance the rectify that. But then they announced it would be highlights only! I got in touch with the producers and asked as many people as I could do do so...and fortunately they changed their minds and did the full score. BUT...that recording has issues, and it means I don't play it as much as others. I adored Elena Roger in the role in London, but something happened to her voice when it crossed the Atlantic, Ricky Martin is a dud, and the orchestra sounds incredibly weak...I guess they could only do a full CD if it meant compromising on the orchestra (which was not compromised on in the 2006 London recording and in fact was augmented). I do like the OBC orchestrations, and in some cases they age a bit better than then revival version and have a harder edge to them that suits the show. A lot of it was improvised in the course of the run by people in the pit, and for the better (e.g. the samba beat in 'Buenos Aires'). The London orchestrations at the Prince Edward sound bizarre on the OLC. I find the film orchestrations far too poppy, but I can understand why they went down that route given that they cast the Queen of Pop in the title role. As you say, none is quite perfect. |
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Feb 6, 2022 11:40:58 GMT
People forget that the live action musical was dead before EVITA came along. Many factors contributed to the genre’s decline, not least MTV, so those who accuse EVITA of looking like a music video are at least partly right: this is the very audience they needed to attract/convince. Without this movie’s success, which then led to Moulin Rouge, there wouldn’t have been any films of Chicago or Dreamgirls or Les Mis.
I’d love to see a Chess movie one day; it would be a riot of 80s nostalgia! Big hair and shoulder pads and loads of Casio keyboards!
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Post by danb on Feb 6, 2022 12:16:14 GMT
Totally this. It was the beginning of the resurgence and is magnificent.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 6, 2022 12:42:53 GMT
Would it even have been made at all if they hadn’t got Madonna for it?
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Feb 6, 2022 12:55:03 GMT
Would it even have been made at all if they hadn’t got Madonna for it? Other contenders over the years were Michelle Pfeiffer & Meryl Streep. Barbra Streisand was quite keen, apparently, but they weren’t keen on her. But I doubt it would have greenlit without Madge who brought a considerable built-in audience. |
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Post by barrowside on Feb 6, 2022 22:24:27 GMT
My understanding is that Meryl Streep was actually cast when Oliver Stone was going to make it but then it didn't get made. I think Barbra Streisand was approached much earlier in the Ken Russell days and turned it down flat because Eva Peron was a fascist. Alan Parker wanted Michelle Pfeiffer but she turned it down and so Madonna got it after lobbying for it.
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Post by interval99 on Feb 6, 2022 23:29:14 GMT
Forgotten just how many false starts and casting choices there were in the years before Alan Parker and Madonna got it made.
The Oliver stone version could have been interesting but happy with the version we got which it does seems works for most of us
Think at the time there was talk that Madonna got voice lessons to master the score and it did seem her control and delivery did improve on her own music afterwards especially on the ray of light album.
The techniques she learnt does seem to have kept her voice strong and healthy considering all the live shows she has done in the years after and her long career, regardless of what people may think Of her she does still have good vocals for her age and better than many of her pop contemporaries.
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Post by joeyk713 on Feb 7, 2022 0:21:29 GMT
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evita_(soundtrack)“ However Lloyd Webber was still wary about Madonna's singing, so after securing the role, she underwent vocal training with coach Joan Lader. Since Evita required the actors to sing their own parts, the training helped in increasing Madonna's confidence in the songs.[5][6] Lader noted that the singer "had to use her voice in a way she's never used it before. Evita is real musical theater — its operatic, in a sense. Madonna developed an upper register that she didn't know she had."[7][8] She taught Madonna how to sing using her diaphragm rather than just her throat, enabling her to project her voice in a more cohesive manner. Madonna was thrilled to find the newly discovered nuances in her voice and would go home every night, practicing by telephoning her friends and singing to them.”
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Post by sukhavati on Feb 7, 2022 4:29:09 GMT
My understanding is that Meryl Streep was actually cast when Oliver Stone was going to make it but then it didn't get made. I think Barbra Streisand was approached much earlier in the Ken Russell days and turned it down flat because Eva Peron was a fascist. Alan Parker wanted Michelle Pfeiffer but she turned it down and so Madonna got it after lobbying for it. I also remember Liza Minelli being mentioned in the papers as a potential screen Eva. She certainly had the singing and dancing chops for the role, but that must have been mid-80s when her name was in the running. |
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Post by inthenose on Feb 7, 2022 7:14:26 GMT
ALW was wary of Madonna's singing - in future he was much more discerning, casting star vocalist Gerard Butler in his flagship show.
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Post by barrowside on Feb 7, 2022 9:17:03 GMT
My understanding is that Meryl Streep was actually cast when Oliver Stone was going to make it but then it didn't get made. I think Barbra Streisand was approached much earlier in the Ken Russell days and turned it down flat because Eva Peron was a fascist. Alan Parker wanted Michelle Pfeiffer but she turned it down and so Madonna got it after lobbying for it. I also remember Liza Minelli being mentioned in the papers as a potential screen Eva. She certainly had the singing and dancing chops for the role, but that must have been mid-80s when her name was in the running. It was - Ken Russell wanted Liza. Robert Stigwood insisted on Elaine Paige. Ken Russell felt Paige didn't work on screen and eventually abandoned the project. |
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Post by singingbird on Feb 7, 2022 10:10:23 GMT
So interesting! Thank you for fighting for a full recording of the London revival cast!! The single CD is magnificent and I've so often wished it was of the full score. |
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Post by danb on Feb 7, 2022 10:47:13 GMT
Forgotten just how many false starts and casting choices there were in the years before Alan Parker and Madonna got it made. The Oliver stone version could have been interesting but happy with the version we got which it does seems works for most of us Think at the time there was talk that Madonna got voice lessons to master the score and it did seem her control and delivery did improve on her own music afterwards especially on the ray of light album. The techniques she learnt does seem to have kept her voice strong and healthy considering all the live shows she has done in the years after and her long career, regardless of what people may think Of her she does still have good vocals for her age and better than many of her pop contemporaries. Absolutely. Given the amount of movement and choreo she does she does still give live vocals a bash on some songs. I don’t want to hear a car crash when I’ve paid that sort of money so have always been happy for Michael & Janet & Madge & Kylie & well pretty much every big pop act of the last thirty years to balance between the two. |
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Post by ptwest on Feb 8, 2022 11:45:53 GMT
This thread inspired me to rewatch the film yesterday. Madonna really is better than anyone at the time had a right to expect but in my opinion the Oscar committee got it right. But she sings it well and it was good to hear the improvement in her voice in her post Evita recordings. Her versions of Lament and You Must Love Me on tour proved she can sing when she puts her mind to it.
Love the film, it takes a while to get going but from Buenos Aires onwards it’s superb. Maybe the last 15 minutes could do with some trimming but overall very enjoyable.
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Post by sukhavati on Feb 9, 2022 2:46:26 GMT
Forgotten just how many false starts and casting choices there were in the years before Alan Parker and Madonna got it made. The Oliver stone version could have been interesting but happy with the version we got which it does seems works for most of us Think at the time there was talk that Madonna got voice lessons to master the score and it did seem her control and delivery did improve on her own music afterwards especially on the ray of light album. The techniques she learnt does seem to have kept her voice strong and healthy considering all the live shows she has done in the years after and her long career, regardless of what people may think Of her she does still have good vocals for her age and better than many of her pop contemporaries.
I know there's a thread about The Osmond's jukebox musical on here. There are videos on YouTube of the brothers at the Ohio State Fair in the early 70s when all the singing/dancing was absolutely live. You can hear them running out of wind in the last quarter of the concert, but it's depressing thinking of how many acts these days just mime - whether a concert stage or a theatrical stage. Back then, it was the vocalists, the musicians, and the occasional pyrotechnics if it was a big show. No video screens, lasers, smoke machines, et al and the oddball act like Alice Cooper or KISS going a little crazy with primitive effects. The singing was everything. In another epoch, those boys would have been on vaudeville or Broadway stages.
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Post by danb on Feb 9, 2022 4:54:11 GMT
Absolutely. Given the amount of movement and choreo she does she does still give live vocals a bash on some songs. I don’t want to hear a car crash when I’ve paid that sort of money so have always been happy for Michael & Janet & Madge & Kylie & well pretty much every big pop act of the last thirty years to balance between the two.
I know there's a thread about The Osmond's jukebox musical on here. There are videos on YouTube of the brothers at the Ohio State Fair in the early 70s when all the singing/dancing was absolutely live. You can hear them running out of wind in the last quarter of the concert, but it's depressing thinking of how many acts these days just mime - whether a concert stage or a theatrical stage. Back then, it was the vocalists, the musicians, and the occasional pyrotechnics if it was a big show. No video screens, lasers, smoke machines, et al and the oddball act like Alice Cooper or KISS going a little crazy with primitive effects. The singing was everything. In another epoch, those boys would have been on vaudeville or Broadway stages.
So true. But it is what it is. The need for bigger and better has led to the diluting of the thing they are there for in the first place. Luckily I’ve always balanced a love of pop with an equal amount of love for rock. You don’t get many 3 minute dance breaks or ‘augmented’ vocal tracks there! |
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Post by distantcousin on Feb 10, 2022 9:39:39 GMT
How wonderful! I remember some cinema in London doing a singalong version about 20 years ago - I would have loved to have attended that!!
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Post by distantcousin on Feb 10, 2022 9:40:34 GMT
I adore Madonna - and Evita is one of my favourite musicals. In my opinion the movie is a masterpiece. Banderas to me is the perfect Che, sexy - charismatic and that accent(!). He sings the hell out of the part - to me he is the benchmark. I've never seen another Che that even comes close (even Ricky Martin, who did his best impersonation!). It was brilliantly cast. How good is Jonathan Pryce?!?? But Madonna absolutely carries it. Her singing is phenomenal, she acts the best I've ever seen her (and yes, I've seen all of her films, and true most are horrible). She basically embodies the version of Eva Perón depicted in the piece to a tee. One of the harshest Oscar snubs ever and one of the best movie musicals ever. Agreed! Antonio is the DEFINITIVE Che, and I've seen many. I don't care what anyone says!! |
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Post by distantcousin on Feb 10, 2022 9:41:28 GMT
My understanding is that Meryl Streep was actually cast when Oliver Stone was going to make it but then it didn't get made. I think Barbra Streisand was approached much earlier in the Ken Russell days and turned it down flat because Eva Peron was a fascist. Alan Parker wanted Michelle Pfeiffer but she turned it down and so Madonna got it after lobbying for it. Michelle didn't want to film outside of the US, as I recall, due to being a relatively new mother? |
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Post by distantcousin on Feb 10, 2022 9:57:05 GMT
I'm not sure why people on here think Patti is the benchmark of what Eva should be, she was only repeating what Elaine had originated before her. One word: Americans. |
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Post by steve10086 on Feb 10, 2022 11:54:24 GMT
Regardless of what you think of the casting of Madonna or indeed the film at all, I have just received my March British Film Institute (BFI) programme magazine and they will be screening this at 17.50 on 4th March. So, if you want to see Madonna raise her finger as she sings Don't Cry For Me Argentina or Antonio Banderas dancing in a fountain with a little girl on the big screen, this is your chance. You don't have to be a member. Thanks! Saw it 11 times on the big screen back in 1996/7, but looking forward to a reprise at the BFI. |
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Post by anthony40 on Feb 10, 2022 12:40:15 GMT
Regardless of what you think of the casting of Madonna or indeed the film at all, I have just received my March British Film Institute (BFI) programme magazine and they will be screening this at 17.50 on 4th March. So, if you want to see Madonna raise her finger as she sings Don't Cry For Me Argentina or Antonio Banderas dancing in a fountain with a little girl on the big screen, this is your chance. You don't have to be a member. Thanks! Saw it 11 times on the big screen back in 1996/7, but looking forward to a reprise at the BFI. Steve (at this stage) I am planning on going too so if you see me, say hello |
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Post by justsaying113 on Feb 10, 2022 14:14:46 GMT
I'm not sure why people on here think Patti is the benchmark of what Eva should be, she was only repeating what Elaine had originated before her. One word: Americans. Exactly distantcousin. As someone old enough to have seen EP, it was - quite simply - one of the greatest theatre performances ever (never mind musical theatre). And, to this date, so many actresses playing the role miss the wonderful nuances of Hal Prince's direction (especially in DCFMA) that Elaine delivered and defined with such impact. Some others, though, have been absolutely terrific over the years. And, on the subject of the movie, Alan Parker did a first-class job and - let's be honest - that film would never have been made without Madonna. |
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Post by floorshow on Feb 10, 2022 15:18:38 GMT
I'd echo everyone who's already said it but it is beautifully shot, I remember it looking great on the big screen. Banderas had a lot of fun hustle and bustle on places and Madge did the job without embarassing herself (if that's even possible)
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