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Post by crowblack on Aug 22, 2022 12:31:44 GMT
No spoilers, but glad to say the first episode of House of the Dragon is very promising! Spoiler follows: there is a death in childbirth scene that is very harrowing though there is a content warning at the start of the show Still not ready to jump back in after the mess made of the last series of GoT I really liked the last series! I rewatched the battle for King's Landing episodes again on Now TV last night and they were phenomenal. If you take the White Walkers as the Black Death, then having it defeated by science - a jab - after a battle resembling Breughel's 'Triumph of Death' was historically appropriate, as was Daenerys' initially laudable social crusade descending into tyranny, with her Robespierre hair and Nazi-like following. I mostly liked where the characters ended up - especially Arya as Reepicheep! . Whether or not you liked the last series I'd say give this a go - it's tonally different, more I, Claudius-style court politics thus far, and a more Byzantine look (the 70s sword and sorcery, boobs and bums aspect of the early GoT series haven't aged well).
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Aug 22, 2022 14:09:28 GMT
Still not ready to jump back in after the mess made of the last series of GoT I really liked the last series! I rewatched the battle for King's Landing episodes again on Now TV last night and they were phenomenal. If you take the White Walkers as the Black Death, then having it defeated by science - a jab - after a battle resembling Breughel's 'Triumph of Death' was historically appropriate, as was Daenerys' initially laudable social crusade descending into tyranny, with her Robespierre hair and Nazi-like following. I mostly liked where the characters ended up - especially Arya as Reepicheep! . Whether or not you liked the last series I'd say give this a go - it's tonally different, more I, Claudius-style court politics thus far, and a more Byzantine look (the 70s sword and sorcery, boobs and bums aspect of the early GoT series haven't aged well). I forgot how badly they messed things up, just don't need further reminders of the travesty with the prequel starting.
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Post by marob on Aug 22, 2022 14:21:47 GMT
I enjoyed Game of Thrones but, much like The Walking Dead, I think it outstayed it’s welcome, and any time there’s talk of potential spin-offs I can’t help but wonder “does anyone still care?” It may be because I had pretty low expectations, but I quite liked the first episode. Great cast too.
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Post by crowblack on Aug 22, 2022 14:37:08 GMT
Mixed reviews on Radio 5 just now, though I did feel their listener-reviewer had watched a different show to the one I saw!
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Post by crowblack on Aug 22, 2022 14:40:44 GMT
I enjoyed Game of Thrones but, much like The Walking Dead, I think it outstayed it’s welcome, and any time there’s talk of potential spin-offs I can’t help but wonder “does anyone still care?” It may be because I had pretty low expectations, but I quite liked the first episode. Great cast too. My issue with GoT was in the middle of the series - so many plot threads like the gratuitously violent 'Reek' torture plotline, Arya in the assassin training school that also felt very brutal and sadistic and went on for ages, a lot of the Daenerys plotline was repetitive
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Post by jojo on Aug 22, 2022 14:48:12 GMT
Still not ready to jump back in after the mess made of the last series of GoT I really liked the last series! I rewatched the battle for King's Landing episodes again on Now TV last night and they were phenomenal. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} If you take the White Walkers as the Black Death, then having it defeated by science - a jab - after a battle resembling Breughel's 'Triumph of Death' was historically appropriate, as was Daenerys' initially laudable social crusade descending into tyranny, with her Robespierre hair and Nazi-like following. I mostly liked where the characters ended up - especially Arya as Reepicheep! . Whether or not you liked the last series I'd say give this a go - it's tonally different, more I, Claudius-style court politics thus far, and a more Byzantine look (the 70s sword and sorcery, boobs and bums aspect of the early GoT series haven't aged well). I liked the last series too! There are some things I wished they'd done differently, and it did feel rushed, with a bit too much attention given to how many stunt men they could set on fire in a single take, but I thought the overall ending was logical, even if a lot of people wanted something more traditional or fairytale which GRRM kept warning us wasn't going to happen. Some stuff that might have been in keeping with the books or GRRM's world view wasn't going to happen because it was impractical. The big gap between the 7th and 8th seasons (required because of the scale of the production) meant people went mad with theories, and there were a lot of unrealistic expectations. {Spoiler}{Spoiler - for S8 GOT only}I'm not claiming to have predicted the ending, but I did anticipate a lot of the big things, such as the quest to sit on the Iron Throne being a red herring, with those most desperate to sit on it being unfit to sit on it, and I had an inkling that it would be destroyed.
Dany had been been showing tyrannical tendencies from the first book/season, and while individual actions might be justified, the big red flag was that she got a thrill from exerting power over others. Jon also did things that aren't compatible with the Geneva Convention, but he was burdened by it. Knowing GRRM's views on war and power, it seemed obvious to me that her story was intended to show how easy it is for people to make excuses and ignore the signs when they believe the cause is noble.
I thought it might be possible for Dany to develop a bit of self awareness, realising she wasn't the ruler that Westeros needed, but it was either that or going full 'mad'* then dead.
* I don't think Dany was actually mad in the traditional sense. No more than any other massively narcissist despot from history who is convinced they know best.
I think it was hoped the boobs and bums would make it easier to keep viewers engaged as they were introduced to a large cast of characters with strange names in strange lands, but it became unnecessary. It's odd re-watching the early stuff to spot the clues we missed first time around against a background of all of those boobs and bums for no apparent reason (& light blond Tyrion).
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Post by jojo on Aug 22, 2022 15:16:43 GMT
I enjoyed Game of Thrones but, much like The Walking Dead, I think it outstayed it’s welcome, and any time there’s talk of potential spin-offs I can’t help but wonder “does anyone still care?” It may be because I had pretty low expectations, but I quite liked the first episode. Great cast too. My issue with GoT was in the middle of the series - so many plot threads like the gratuitously violent 'Reek' torture plotline, Arya in the assassin training school that also felt very brutal and sadistic and went on for ages, a lot of the Daenerys plotline was repetitive All of these things went on for even longer in the books and if I remember correctly, were just as, if not more brutal. I know it's fashionable to say that the showrunners were nothing without GRRM, but they did a great job of pruning these more repetitive plotlines and condensing characters so things flowed. GRRM has brilliant ideas and has given us a range of characters that feel distinct, with complex plots and story arcs are all the more fulfilling because he planted the seeds in earlier books. I don't want this to come across as hating on him, but he needed a good editor. Someone to ask him 'is this really necessary?', then when he inevitably says 'yes' to follow up with 'but does it all need to be this detailed?' and 'are you sure we need this much description of the food?' I think the problem was that time was needed for the dragons to grow or so that other characters could get on with their storylines to be in the right place for everyone to come together. I suspect this is also why it's over ten years between the 5th and 6th books.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Aug 22, 2022 15:58:39 GMT
My issue with GoT was in the middle of the series - so many plot threads like the gratuitously violent 'Reek' torture plotline, Arya in the assassin training school that also felt very brutal and sadistic and went on for ages, a lot of the Daenerys plotline was repetitive All of these things went on for even longer in the books and if I remember correctly, were just as, if not more brutal. I know it's fashionable to say that the showrunners were nothing without GRRM, but they did a great job of pruning these more repetitive plotlines and condensing characters so things flowed. GRRM has brilliant ideas and has given us a range of characters that feel distinct, with complex plots and story arcs are all the more fulfilling because he planted the seeds in earlier books. I don't want this to come across as hating on him, but he needed a good editor. Someone to ask him 'is this really necessary?', then when he inevitably says 'yes' to follow up with 'but does it all need to be this detailed?' and 'are you sure we need this much description of the food?' I think the problem was that time was needed for the dragons to grow or so that other characters could get on with their storylines to be in the right place for everyone to come together. I suspect this is also why it's over ten years between the 5th and 6th books. I heard there had been ten years between the books as the author was so pissed with what the tv show did to his books
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Post by jojo on Aug 22, 2022 17:36:38 GMT
All of these things went on for even longer in the books and if I remember correctly, were just as, if not more brutal. I know it's fashionable to say that the showrunners were nothing without GRRM, but they did a great job of pruning these more repetitive plotlines and condensing characters so things flowed. GRRM has brilliant ideas and has given us a range of characters that feel distinct, with complex plots and story arcs are all the more fulfilling because he planted the seeds in earlier books. I don't want this to come across as hating on him, but he needed a good editor. Someone to ask him 'is this really necessary?', then when he inevitably says 'yes' to follow up with 'but does it all need to be this detailed?' and 'are you sure we need this much description of the food?' I think the problem was that time was needed for the dragons to grow or so that other characters could get on with their storylines to be in the right place for everyone to come together. I suspect this is also why it's over ten years between the 5th and 6th books. I heard there had been ten years between the books as the author was so pissed with what the tv show did to his books There were only ever meant to be seven seasons of the tv show to match the seven planned books. The fifth book came out about a month after the first season aired. That was over eleven years ago. He's since attended a plethora of conventions, premieres and awards shows, which suggests he likes (or at least liked) what was happening on tv. He admitted to problems in the earlier books getting the timelines to work, so it's bound to be tougher for the final books. If he were that precious about the tv show matching his plans for the books then it suggests he'd already got plans for the books, so even if he couldn't write them in time, he could have shared more of the important plot points. We know he did share some important stuff that's not yet published, such as Jon Snow, Shireen and Hodor, and know he shared unspecified aspects of the ending. It was reported that most of the main character endings were to be the same, but it is possible that having seen fan reaction he may have changed his mind. Some stuff is definitely different. The most obvious being Bronn, who was a minor book character, who ended up taking a larger role in the tv show. First because the actor playing Ser Ilyn Payne was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and they didn't want to recast him, so chose to have Jaime sparring with Bronn instead. Then he became a convenient and popular secondary character that helped translate the Jaime and Tyrion stories from page to screen.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Aug 22, 2022 22:02:09 GMT
I heard there had been ten years between the books as the author was so pissed with what the tv show did to his books There were only ever meant to be seven seasons of the tv show to match the seven planned books. The fifth book came out about a month after the first season aired. That was over eleven years ago. He's since attended a plethora of conventions, premieres and awards shows, which suggests he likes (or at least liked) what was happening on tv. He admitted to problems in the earlier books getting the timelines to work, so it's bound to be tougher for the final books. If he were that precious about the tv show matching his plans for the books then it suggests he'd already got plans for the books, so even if he couldn't write them in time, he could have shared more of the important plot points. We know he did share some important stuff that's not yet published, such as Jon Snow, Shireen and Hodor, and know he shared unspecified aspects of the ending. It was reported that most of the main character endings were to be the same, but it is possible that having seen fan reaction he may have changed his mind. Some stuff is definitely different. The most obvious being Bronn, who was a minor book character, who ended up taking a larger role in the tv show. First because the actor playing Ser Ilyn Payne was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and they didn't want to recast him, so chose to have Jaime sparring with Bronn instead. Then he became a convenient and popular secondary character that helped translate the Jaime and Tyrion stories from page to screen. Only needed seven series. Just needed to tell the story and all those plot lines. Amazing they could get it so wrong. Should be the greatest ever. Not even a foot note now
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Post by crowblack on Aug 22, 2022 22:54:56 GMT
Not even a footnote? Come on! On 'House of the Dragon', it's a few hours since I watched it and comparing it with the opening of Game of Thrones, where the characters were immediately engaging and I really wanted to find out what the story had in store for them, I haven't really got that so much from HotD. I think the characters need more charisma, humour, sexiness. Hopefully that will come, though exiling the gleefully scheming Richard III-type character (Shakespeare's, not historical) in the first episode could be an issue - he was horrible, but the most entertaining of the characters so far introduced. Most of the rest are rather po-faced! The girls are good, though apparently they will be replaced partway through by older actors playing them as adults who also look rather po-faced on the stills I've seen [/span]
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Aug 23, 2022 6:20:43 GMT
Not even a footnote? Come on! On 'House of the Dragon', it's a few hours since I watched it and comparing it with the opening of Game of Thrones, where the characters were immediately engaging and I really wanted to find out what the story had in store for them, I haven't really got that so much from HotD. I think the characters need more charisma, humour, sexiness. Hopefully that will come, though exiling the gleefully scheming Richard III-type character (Shakespeare's, not historical) in the first episode could be an issue - he was horrible, but the most entertaining of the characters so far introduced. Most of the rest are rather po-faced! The girls are good, though apparently they will be replaced partway through by older actors playing them as adults who also look rather po-faced on the stills I've seen [/span][/quote] I was speaking to a friend who worked on the programme last night. In the GOT thread I put up a few of his stories. He said we should have talked about GOT forever. You used to watch each episode several times. You would rewatch it each year before the new series started. It was a programme that gave us the red wedding, the wall, hatdholme, battle of the bastards and still it fell off a cliff with such a terrible final series.
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Post by jojo on Aug 23, 2022 8:29:54 GMT
We are still talking about it. There's another series, which predates the original, and all lots of people can do, including you, is talk about the original series. The series was the top streamed show in the world for the two years after it ended, and is consistently in the top ten streamed shows on HBOMax. It's OK if you didn't like it, but it's hyperbole to claim that people stopped watching it or talking about it.
As it turns out, despite claims that the franchise was ruined, and that no-one ever wanted to be reminded of that world ever again, the first episode of House of the Dragon had overnight viewing figures on HBO of 10 million, which is a record for them for a 'new' series, which is of course expected to grow.
I watched that first episode last night, and it was a solid start, but hasn't yet grabbed me. I went in braced for a lot of new names and ground laying, and that's exactly what I got. It was fun to see places we're already familiar with looking a little bit different, after a period of peace. At the beginning of Game of Thrones, everyone is still recovering from the last war. You can't expect the thrills of the later season finales until we've all put the work.
One of the great strengths of the Game of Thrones series (tv and books) was the different settings and different types of people and distinct characters. People had their favourite characters, families and settings, but hopping between them all make them all more interesting. Hopefully the next episode will expand beyond King's Landing.
One of the reveals was the big terrible secret about the prophecy of what we now know as "The Others" being passed from ruler to heir. My problem with that is that if it's that important, then having periods of time when only one person knows about it, is flawed, and all I could think about was how stupid they were to not have a contingency. Or why it needs to be kept a secret from the wider family or even the public in the first place.
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Post by crowblack on Aug 23, 2022 8:52:52 GMT
One of the reveals was the big terrible secret about the prophecy of what we now know as "The Others" being passed from ruler to heir. My problem with that is that if it's that important, then having periods of time when only one person knows about it, is flawed, and all I could think about was how stupid they were to not have a contingency. Or why it needs to be kept a secret from the wider family or even the public in the first place. Yes, I don't get that aspect at all either, given that it's something the whole population will have to brace and prep for. On the GoT last series 'issue', by the final series many of the characters you grew to know and enjoy the company of, as it were, in earlier series have been killed off, and by definition there isn't going to be much of that joviality or lightness left. It is what it is. Some people are p-d off that Daenerys became a tryrant, and Cersei didn't have a 'made it ma, top of the world' death, but rather a realistic one. I liked that, and many didn't. Was GRR Martin planning something different? Well, we'll have to see.
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Post by crowblack on Aug 23, 2022 9:06:44 GMT
I watched that first episode last night, and it was a solid start, but hasn't yet grabbed me. I went in braced for a lot of new names and ground laying, and that's exactly what I got. It was fun to see places we're already familiar with looking a little bit different, after a period of peace. The opening episode of the original GoT is a masterclass in character introduction, but did have the huge advantage of a series of books to draw on so the showrunners knew where they were going. I don't think that's the case with many series these days - some seem to be making it up as they go along and drawing on fan reaction to lean in certain directions.
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Post by jojo on Aug 23, 2022 9:49:49 GMT
There are books for the story House of the Dragon, which George finished, so the story and fate of the characters is known. I've not read them, but I've heard there have been some GRRM approved changes already.
The fatal flaw in keeping the big secret secret is I suppose the reason that Westeros was not properly prepared by the time the GOT series is set. People had become distracted by the petty politics of King's Landing and had forgotten about the bigger threat. Our leaders and people in general do stupid and vain things in real life, so annoying as it is, it's not unreasonable for them to do it on the tv.
But yes, the first episode of GOT where you first learnt a bit about the Starks and Winterfell, then have the King and his entourage arriving was brilliant. It was visually impressive, but gave a lot of information about the characters before any of them even opened their mouths.
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Post by crowblack on Aug 23, 2022 13:29:54 GMT
The fatal flaw in keeping the big secret secret is I suppose the reason that Westeros was not properly prepared by the time the GOT series is set. People had become distracted by the petty politics of King's Landing and had forgotten about the bigger threat. Our leaders and people in general do stupid and vain things in real life, so annoying as it is, it's not unreasonable for them to do it on the tv. Meanwhile we all know climate change/environmental destruction is happening, but still do very little to seriously, realistically address it....
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Post by TallPaul on Aug 24, 2022 10:03:19 GMT
Anyway, back to Marriage. At the end of the four hours, I'm still not sure all my questions were answered. Perhaps there will be a second series, or does Stefan Golaszewski usually leave things up in the air?
I find myself conflicted. I'm not sure I'm comfortable sharing my fondant fancy obsession with a slimeball like Jamie. I've barely been able to sleep since Monday night. I've tried Viennese whirls, but they just don't work for me!
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Post by alece10 on Aug 24, 2022 15:14:55 GMT
The Show Must Go On Wed 8pm Sky Arts If you missed it first time around.
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Post by jojo on Aug 24, 2022 19:06:10 GMT
I watched what had been described to me as the secret 'two bonus' episodes of The Sandman featuring big names, but don't be fooled. It's a single episode with a story within a story. It opens with an animation, and most of the big names are doing voices for that. Some of them just a handful of lines at best.
It was still good, but it was frustrating to realise that what I thought was the penultimate episode in the series was actually the last one.
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Post by crowblack on Aug 29, 2022 21:04:27 GMT
Re - House of the Dragon, the radio reviewer who was sniffy about it last week after 2 episodes has seen more and says it gets better. I've just watched the second episode and enjoyed it, but feel it could be tighter: some scenes are excellent and I love the Byzantine atmosphere, but in others it's a bit wooden and dialogue stilted or mumbled (in one scene we get both!)
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Post by justfran on Aug 29, 2022 21:41:24 GMT
New drama The Suspect starring Aidan Turner started tonight on ITV. A twisty five-part thriller, interesting and intriguing so far.
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Post by jojo on Aug 31, 2022 18:02:10 GMT
Re - House of the Dragon, the radio reviewer who was sniffy about it last week after 2 episodes has seen more and says it gets better. I've just watched the second episode and enjoyed it, but feel it could be tighter: some scenes are excellent and I love the Byzantine atmosphere, but in others it's a bit wooden and dialogue stilted or mumbled (in one scene we get both!) It still feels like they are doing ground-work. I went into this expecting to have to learn a whole load of new names and relationships before any payback so happy to bide my time. I'm not yet fully invested with any of the characters, but things were hotting up by the end. I had meant to set the recorder for The Suspect, but forgot. Hopefully there's a repeat on one of the ITVs, because I can't stand the ITV player.
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Post by alece10 on Sept 2, 2022 16:55:39 GMT
The film Belfast starts screening on Sky Movies tonight.
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Post by TallPaul on Sept 6, 2022 18:04:06 GMT
Don't forget the new series of The Yorkshire Vet starts in exactly one hour on Channel 5, or YTV as we call it around here. Having our own tv channel is just like the old days.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 6, 2022 22:26:50 GMT
House of the Dragon not doing it for me, I'm afraid. I'll probably stick with it a bit longer because I'm paying for Now TV, but I didn't find myself rushing to watch this week's episode and even the promised action sequences were a bit meh because I didn't care about anyone involved and they had the baddie-killing happen offstage - why waste what could have been a good bit of hand to hand combat? .
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Post by crowblack on Sept 7, 2022 6:44:46 GMT
I'm looking at the cast list of the $35 million filmed-but-abandoned alternative GoT prequel pilot 'Bloodmoon' and thinking I'd have preferred to be watching them really. I like the younger cast in this (what little there is - and they're about to be aged up and replaced with new actors) but the older/established names seem really underpowered, even wooden. It just doesn't have the gusto and charisma and sexiness that made GoT so very watchable.
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Post by tysilio2 on Sept 7, 2022 10:37:37 GMT
Don't forget the new series of The Yorkshire Vet starts in exactly one hour on Channel 5, or YTV as we call it around here. Having our own tv channel is just like the old days. Which I tuned in to as usual and the first thing I saw was the dog unable to pass urine which is sadly what my lovely girl in my profile picture succumbed to only 4 weeks ago so not a great night for me . Will tune in to the rest of the series as usual though.
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Post by TallPaul on Sept 7, 2022 11:26:05 GMT
Sorry to hear that, tysilio2. I can't imagine how difficult it is to lose a much loved friend and companion.
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Post by lynette on Sept 7, 2022 13:19:30 GMT
Watching that Capture thriller. Is it about to turn silly? So far quite good but the end of ep 4 looked like it was going to take a wrong turn. Anyone know?
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