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Post by lynette on Jun 14, 2022 15:24:13 GMT
I don’t think the situation the NT is in as as terminal as certain other theatres (eg RSC). Clearly, the “golden” era (and it probably was that in overall terms) of Hytner is over, and his preferred actors and writers have moved with him to the Bridge. Norris hasn’t built the same base of directors, having earlier acted more as a host for one/two offs (Van Hove, Icke), Marianne Elliott and regional productions. Having said that: - the £20 front row seats remain a bargain even having risen from £10/12.50; - the top prices are too high but some of that can be explained by subsidising the lower priced seats. The loss of Travelex has been felt here particularly. - credit notes with no questions asked have been good, and often they don’t charge the £2 fee, even when I choose to return tickets. - I’ve personally found the box office friendly, efficient and helpful. - for every 2 duds which we can name there is probably a hit - it’s a while since Angels of America, but the Shakespeares directed by Simon Godwin, The Lehman Trilogy, A Normal Heart/ Follies directed by Dominic Cooke, Beginning and Small Island (a rare hit by Norris) have been IMO good, or at least popular. - whilst NT at Home wasn’t that innovative, they got on with Romeo and Juliet on screen, and adapting the Olivier in the round, which is more than some in terms of working through Covid. For me 7/10 for effort, and 6/10 for achievement! Hex and the Norris debacle there would bring it down more, but I’m trying to look at my whole experience. I agree that it's not as bad as it could be, though I think COVID has clouded quite how bad it is. I read somewhere that Hytner programmed Angels in America and I know RuNo has a bad reputation among other directors. Your description above is pretty bang on, two duds to each medium size hit and bang on where it comes to the ticket prices and the relationships with the directors. For certain, better directors would have meant more hits and bigger hits and more chance of a long runner. A History Boys or One Man Two Guvs or War Horse or Curious Incident would have meant money for the RNT, and some spare money would have allowed the top prices to come down. Surely the lack of hits is one of the reasons Travelex walked away. Good analysis. Note the hits channel immigrant experience, one major big big hit and Shakespeare. Not enough NT, nowhere near enough. I for one, think that they could use the distinctions between the theatres better. New writers, experimental stuff in the Dorfman, classic European and British in the Lyttleton and time honoured big box office proof, even a poor director can’t ruin it productions for the Olivier which is, let’s face it, is not suitable for most straight plays written in the last 100 years. It was a folly meant to enable big beasts to roar across an amphitheatre. The only stuff that plays well in that space is Guys and Dolls and hey, guess who took that for ‘23? And similar. Make a list, deliver to Rufie. Asap. |
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Post by Jan on Jun 14, 2022 15:36:49 GMT
I agree that it's not as bad as it could be, though I think COVID has clouded quite how bad it is. I read somewhere that Hytner programmed Angels in America and I know RuNo has a bad reputation among other directors. Your description above is pretty bang on, two duds to each medium size hit and bang on where it comes to the ticket prices and the relationships with the directors. For certain, better directors would have meant more hits and bigger hits and more chance of a long runner. A History Boys or One Man Two Guvs or War Horse or Curious Incident would have meant money for the RNT, and some spare money would have allowed the top prices to come down. Surely the lack of hits is one of the reasons Travelex walked away. Good analysis. Note the hits channel immigrant experience, one major big big hit and Shakespeare. Not enough NT, nowhere near enough. I for one, think that they could use the distinctions between the theatres better. New writers, experimental stuff in the Dorfman, classic European and British in the Lyttleton and time honoured big box office proof, even a poor director can’t ruin it productions for the Olivier which is, let’s face it, is not suitable for most straight plays written in the last 100 years. It was a folly meant to enable big beasts to roar across an amphitheatre. The only stuff that plays well in that space is Guys and Dolls and hey, guess who took that for ‘23? And similar. Make a list, deliver to Rufie. Asap. The Lyttelton is way too big for all but the most popular and familiar of European classics. The Dorfman is the place for those as it always was until Norris made it exclusively a new play venue. The full repertoire should be scheduled across all three theatres. |
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Post by lynette on Jun 16, 2022 12:02:53 GMT
Well we can start with the ‘most popular and familiar of European classics’ can’t we. Statement not question. Written for proscenium stages. Will draw in homegrown and tourists who will stand a chance of understanding the stuff if it is familiar. Generously I would be happy with some ‘new interpretations’ of such or at least cracking interpretations as we had in the West End with Ibsen and Chekhov. If you remember, Jan, the studio theatre was always for the experimental, walk abouts, new and so on until the directors became nervous and wanted to have a ‘hit’ ie full theatre for their classic productions.
I agree, Jan, why can’t we have a full programme of all three theatres so we can plan visits, book ahead and tempt the visitors in. A nice chunky leaflet and online easy to see website. Too much to ask?
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Post by Jon on Jun 16, 2022 12:15:52 GMT
I suspect if the National just did the classics and crowd pleasers, people on here would be complaining the National wasn't taking any risks and given The Lehman Trilogy won a Tony, it shows they've got it to produce a successful play.
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Jun 16, 2022 12:21:34 GMT
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Post by Jan on Jun 16, 2022 12:21:34 GMT
Well we can start with the ‘most popular and familiar of European classics’ can’t we. Statement not question. Written for proscenium stages. Will draw in homegrown and tourists who will stand a chance of understanding the stuff if it is familiar. Generously I would be happy with some ‘new interpretations’ of such or at least cracking interpretations as we had in the West End with Ibsen and Chekhov. If you remember, Jan, the studio theatre was always for the experimental, walk abouts, new and so on until the directors became nervous and wanted to have a ‘hit’ ie full theatre for their classic productions. I agree, Jan, why can’t we have a full programme of all three theatres so we can plan visits, book ahead and tempt the visitors in. A nice chunky leaflet and online easy to see website. Too much to ask? As a specific example in 1983 under Peter Hall in the Cottesloe (as was) the NT put on The Fawn by John Marston, a minor play from 1606. That play couldn’t be staged at all at the NT now as it simply couldn’t sustain a run in the much bigger theatres. There are literally hundreds of other such classic plays that the NT have similarly excluded. The same applies to some of the lesser Ibsens for example, they could only be done in the small theatre and so the NT won’t do them. |
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Jun 16, 2022 12:58:58 GMT
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jun 16, 2022 12:58:58 GMT
They’re doing Othello next, I hear. Would prefer a less common Shakespeare personally
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Post by Jon on Jun 16, 2022 13:12:41 GMT
They’re doing Othello next, I hear. Would prefer a less common Shakespeare personally I know it's not less common but I'd love to see The Taming of the Shrew done at the National. |
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Post by zahidf on Jun 16, 2022 13:16:17 GMT
Id be interested in how Jack Absolute does, and Crucible. They seem crowd pleasers to that extent
Standing on the Sky Edge ( Well reviewed new musical) could be a hit
Wasnt Corn is Green a word of mouth hit? i thought father and the assassin was excellent, even though commerically seems to be middling
Im a bit more positive about the national than i was a year ago. New stuff seems a better mix
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Post by bordeaux on Jun 16, 2022 14:16:19 GMT
They’re doing Othello next, I hear. Would prefer a less common Shakespeare personally Interesting. Director? Casting? Yes, I'd like them to go for something a little less obvious. It doesn't seem that long since their last Much Ado tbf (it's 14 years, I just looked it up - which is recent to me, but not to everyone, I grant you). When was the last time they did As You Like It? Cymbeline? Henry IVs? Measure for Measure? Troilus and Cressida? Titus Andronicus? Rhetorical questions - I do know the answers....except for As You Like it. |
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Post by Jon on Jun 16, 2022 14:21:56 GMT
Interesting. Director? Casting? Yes, I'd like them to go for something a little less obvious. It doesn't seem that long since their last Much Ado tbf (it's 14 years, I just looked it up - which is recent to me, but not to everyone, I grant you). When was the last time they did As You Like It? Cymbeline? Henry IVs? Measure for Measure? Troilus and Cressida? Titus Andronicus? Rhetorical questions - I do know the answers....except for As You Like it. As You Like It was last at the National in 2015. |
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Post by Jan on Jun 16, 2022 16:15:28 GMT
They’re doing Othello next, I hear. Would prefer a less common Shakespeare personally Interesting. Director? Casting? Yes, I'd like them to go for something a little less obvious. It doesn't seem that long since their last Much Ado tbf (it's 14 years, I just looked it up - which is recent to me, but not to everyone, I grant you). When was the last time they did As You Like It? Cymbeline? Henry IVs? Measure for Measure? Troilus and Cressida? Titus Andronicus? Rhetorical questions - I do know the answers....except for As You Like it. Nicholas Hytner seemed to have a policy of doing those Shakespeare plays that had never been done by the NT before: All's Well, Timon, and I think Henry IV and V. No chance of Norris doing Henry VIII and King John though. |
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Post by lynette on Jun 16, 2022 19:43:03 GMT
They’re doing Othello next, I hear. Would prefer a less common Shakespeare personally I know it's not less common but I'd love to see The Taming of the Shrew done at the National. But we would have to go through all that agonising about the position of women again. Too painful. And then the gender swaps such as the RSC had in its last manifestation. It was, frankly, painful. It is very much the second division as far as our Willie goes and you need a seminar before each performance to explain it. If they could somehow redress the balance and show up even more the greedy men being outdone by the canny gals it might work. |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jun 16, 2022 21:21:46 GMT
They’re doing Othello next, I hear. Would prefer a less common Shakespeare personally Interesting. Director? Casting? Yes, I'd like them to go for something a little less obvious. It doesn't seem that long since their last Much Ado tbf (it's 14 years, I just looked it up - which is recent to me, but not to everyone, I grant you). When was the last time they did As You Like It? Cymbeline? Henry IVs? Measure for Measure? Troilus and Cressida? Titus Andronicus? Rhetorical questions - I do know the answers....except for As You Like it. Sorry I was drunk during the conversation where it was discussed so I can’t remember the details. I think they mentioned it’s a black director but don’t hold me to that. The actress playing Desdemona I didn’t recognise but apparently she’s done telly. |
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Post by theatrelover123 on Jun 16, 2022 21:59:12 GMT
Interesting. Director? Casting? Yes, I'd like them to go for something a little less obvious. It doesn't seem that long since their last Much Ado tbf (it's 14 years, I just looked it up - which is recent to me, but not to everyone, I grant you). When was the last time they did As You Like It? Cymbeline? Henry IVs? Measure for Measure? Troilus and Cressida? Titus Andronicus? Rhetorical questions - I do know the answers....except for As You Like it. Sorry I was drunk during the conversation where it was discussed so I can’t remember the details. I think they mentioned it’s a black director but don’t hold me to that. The actress playing Desdemona I didn’t recognise but apparently she’s done telly. Is it Janette Krankie? |
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Post by lynette on Jun 16, 2022 22:12:46 GMT
Hytner’s Othello was one of the best Shakespeare prods I’ve seen anywhere and it was certainly in the top five of my NT experiences. What will the new take be? Set in the Ukraine? Or trad?
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Post by Jan on Jun 17, 2022 7:03:49 GMT
Here are all the Shakespeare productions the NT has ever done ranked by the year of the last production. I excluded all education/schools productions. It also excludes all outside productions which transferred to the NT - I remember a Hamlet (1987) directed by Ingmar Bergman for example, and a Ninagawa Macbeth (1987). There was also the 1995 production of Titus Andronicus by Doran/Sher which some people remember as an NT production but was a transfer from the Market Theatre Johannesburg so I'm not counting it. Probably there were other transfers.
Two Gentlemen of Verona NEVER
Henry VI 1,2,3 NEVER
King John NEVER
Taming of the Shrew NEVER
Henry VIII NEVER
Titus Andronicus NEVER
Julius Caesar 1977
Coriolanus 1971 1984
Cymbeline 1988
The Tempest 1974 1988
Richard III 1979 1990
Midsummer Night's Dream 1982 1992
Pericles 1994
Richard II 1972 1995
Merry Wives of Windsor 1995
Merchant of Venice 1970 1999
Troilus & Cressida 1976 1999
Winters Tale 1988 2001
Henry V 2003
Loves Labour's Lost 1968 2003
Measure for Measure 1974 1981 2004
Henry IV 1&2 2005
Much Ado 1965 1981 2007
All's Well 2009
Hamlet 1963 1975 1989 2000 2010
Comedy of Errors 2011
Timon of Athens 2012
Othello 1964 1980 1997 2013
King Lear 1986 1990 1997 2014
As You Like It 1967 1979 2015
Twelfth Night 1973 2011 2017
Antony & Cleopatra 1987 2009 2018
Macbeth 1972 1978 1993 2018
Romeo & Juliet 2000 2021
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Post by jek on Jun 17, 2022 8:17:02 GMT
This may have been mentioned elsewhere - apologies if that is the case. I went to the Barbican at the weekend to see the physical theatre/dance company Gecko perform The Wedding. In the digital programme it mentioned that they have been commissioned to make a show for the National Theatre which will appear there in 2023. Details here: www.geckotheatre.com/currently-in-development |
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Post by anita on Jul 2, 2022 9:58:01 GMT
Anyone seeing "Jack Absolute Flies Again"?
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Jul 2, 2022 12:42:58 GMT
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Post by Steve on Jul 2, 2022 12:42:58 GMT
Here are all the Shakespeare productions the NT has ever done ranked by the year of the last production. I excluded all education/schools productions. It also excludes all outside productions which transferred to the NT - I remember a Hamlet (1987) directed by Ingmar Bergman for example, and a Ninagawa Macbeth (1987). There was also the 1995 production of Titus Andronicus by Doran/Sher which some people remember as an NT production but was a transfer from the Market Theatre Johannesburg so I'm not counting it. Probably there were other transfers. Two Gentlemen of Verona NEVER Henry VI 1,2,3 NEVER King John NEVER Taming of the Shrew NEVER Henry VIII NEVER Titus Andronicus NEVER Julius Caesar 1977 Coriolanus 1971 1984 Cymbeline 1988 The Tempest 1974 1988 Richard III 1979 1990 Midsummer Night's Dream 1982 1992 Pericles 1994 Richard II 1972 1995 Merry Wives of Windsor 1995 Merchant of Venice 1970 1999 Troilus & Cressida 1976 1999 Winters Tale 1988 2001 Henry V 2003 Loves Labour's Lost 1968 2003 Measure for Measure 1974 1981 2004 Henry IV 1&2 2005 Much Ado 1965 1981 2007 All's Well 2009 Hamlet 1963 1975 1989 2000 2010 Comedy of Errors 2011 Timon of Athens 2012 Othello 1964 1980 1997 2013 King Lear 1986 1990 1997 2014 As You Like It 1967 1979 2015 Twelfth Night 1973 2011 2017 Antony & Cleopatra 1987 2009 2018 Macbeth 1972 1978 1993 2018 Romeo & Juliet 2000 2021 Never done "Taming of the Shrew" and "Titus Andronicus!?" I'm flabbergasted! :0 |
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Jul 2, 2022 13:04:25 GMT
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Post by djdan14 on Jul 2, 2022 13:04:25 GMT
This may have been mentioned elsewhere - apologies if that is the case. I went to the Barbican at the weekend to see the physical theatre/dance company Gecko perform The Wedding. In the digital programme it mentioned that they have been commissioned to make a show for the National Theatre which will appear there in 2023. Details here: www.geckotheatre.com/currently-in-developmentI believe this has been announced for Home in Manchester prior to the national |
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Post by mkb on Jul 14, 2022 11:13:22 GMT
I just bought tickets in today's sale for priority members and was surprised that, rather than ask me if I wanted to add a donation as previously, they automatically added a £6.00 donation. Had I not noticed it in the shopping basket at checkout, it would have gone through. Completely unethical behaviour, but then this is getting to be a regular thing now with the National.
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Post by mkb on Jul 14, 2022 11:53:45 GMT
The other thing that's changed in this and the previous sale, is that, when you click on a seat on the plan, the pop-up window to select ticket type always used to have Full Price tickets listed first followed by various concessions. Now Under18s is sometimes listed first.
In the last sale, in my rush to checkout before the system crashed, I inadvertently selected the £20 Under18 rather than the £20 Full Price, and had to get them changed afterwards. I nearly did it again today.
I wish they would keep the sequence the same each time so that I am not undone by force of habit. It also begs the question as to why they bother to separate out concession tickets that offer no discount.
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Post by Jon on Jul 14, 2022 13:41:51 GMT
I just bought tickets in today's sale for priority members and was surprised that, rather than ask me if I wanted to add a donation as previously, they automatically added a £6.00 donation. Had I not noticed it in the shopping basket at checkout, it would have gone through. Completely unethical behaviour, but then this is getting to be a regular thing now with the National. I think calling it unethical behaviour is pushing it, maybe you should write to Rufus and complain..... |
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Post by mkb on Jul 14, 2022 14:36:42 GMT
I think calling it unethical behaviour is pushing it..... Seriously? If you were doing your supermarket shop, and the staff snuck something extra into your trolley half-way round, hoping you wouldn't notice at the till, that would be ethical would it? If so, we have different concepts of right/wrong. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 14, 2022 15:29:34 GMT
I think calling it unethical behaviour is pushing it..... Seriously? If you were doing your supermarket shop, and the staff snuck something extra into your trolley half-way round, hoping you wouldn't notice at the till, that would be ethical would it? If so, we have different concepts of right/wrong. The NT is literally a charity, Tesco is not. They do things to encourage donations, and yeah I understand there is trickery of sorts involved, but I pretended to buy a ticket to see how "unethical" it is and I don't really buy it. See below:   There's a big donation box at the top, it lists the donation at the bottom, and the total price at the bottom reflects the donation. The reason I think you/other people may not notice the donation is because we're used to getting to ticket confirmation pages and seeing the total price being higher than the face value we selected, with booking fees. The NT have stuck a £3 (in this case) donation there instead of what Ticketmaster would have done and stuck a £20 booking fee, and I have minimal issue with that. |
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