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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 17, 2021 8:44:17 GMT
Would people here continue to post here and on other forums if either or both of the following was in place.
A - Photo ID was required before being able to continue posting
B - All posts had to be made in your real name.
I am asking because with the talk about removing anonymity on social media this is a possible future situation.
I personally would likely be willing to undertake A but in no circumstances would I be willing to undertake B.
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Post by mkb on Oct 17, 2021 9:40:01 GMT
I would not only continue to post, I would welcome it. I think social media would be immeasurably improved if people couldn't hide behind alter egos. A picture, first name and general location would suffice I think.
To that end, I'm Martin from Nuneaton in Warwickshire. When I can find a decent mugshot, I'll upload it.
If anyone remembers the outintheuk gay social website from 20 years ago, that used to have exceptions for people posting questions in designated support threads, where anonymity was invaluable. If anyone abused that privilege by using it to attack someone else, their identity was revealed!
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Post by alece10 on Oct 17, 2021 9:42:48 GMT
I wouldn't have an issue with this. I use my real name on here anyway as I couldn't be bothered to come up with anything clever or imaginative.
Bear in mind I am talking about this forum and not generally.
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 17, 2021 9:49:09 GMT
I would not only continue to post, I would welcome it. I think social media would be immeasurably improved if people couldn't hide behind alter egos. A picture, first name and general location would suffice I think. To that end, I'm Martin from Nuneaton in Warwickshire. When I can find a decent mugshot, I'll upload it. If anyone remembers the outintheuk gay social website from 20 years ago, that used to have exceptions for people posting questions in designated support threads, where anonymity was invaluable. If anyone abused that privilege by using it to attack someone else, their identity was revealed! Well I wouldn’t like posting on here that I was off to theatre as that would be an advertisement that my house would be empty for anyone who knew where I lived. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 9:50:29 GMT
That sounds like the sort of idea that politicians who know nothing about the Internet would think up. How could you verify someone's photo ID? The whole point of photo IDs is that you have to compare the photo with the actual physical person standing in front of you. Without that person the photo is meaningless. It could be anybody. Or it could be nobody.
In the early days of the Internet everybody posted under their own names. The Internet wasn't seen as anything special: it was just a way of communicating, and people no more considered adopting an alternative identity for the Internet than they would for the telephone. Until the late 1990s it was assumed that anybody who didn't use their real name — or at least something that looked like a real name, because nobody checked — was up to no good. These days it's probably not advisable to use your real name given that some unethical employers use social media to spy on their employees, and there are certainly people living under oppressive regimes who have extremely good reasons to post anonymously, but it's hardly a new idea.
Also, it's not exactly hard to set up a new social media platform. (The hard part is persuading people to use it.) When we were moving over from the WhatsOnStage forum one of the options we considered was rolling our own: renting server space in the cloud and setting up our own forum. There's obviously the issue of funding it but it's not difficult, and given that you can put the servers anywhere in the world that has an electricity supply and a network connection it's not as if anyone can stop you. If posting to the current social media platforms becomes too much of a pain users will want to migrate elsewhere, and if there's a need there'll be companies willing to meet that need.
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 17, 2021 9:55:40 GMT
That sounds like the sort of idea that politicians who know nothing about the Internet would think up. How could you verify someone's photo ID? The whole point of photo IDs is that you have to compare the photo with the actual physical person standing in front of you. Without that person the photo is meaningless. It could be anybody. Or it could be nobody.
In the early days of the Internet everybody posted under their own names. The Internet wasn't seen as anything special: it was just a way of communicating, and people no more considered adopting an alternative identity for the Internet than they would for the telephone. Until the late 1990s it was assumed that anybody who didn't use their real name — or at least something that looked like a real name, because nobody checked — was up to no good. These days it's probably not advisable to use your real name given that some unethical employers use social media to spy on their employees, and there are certainly people living under oppressive regimes who have extremely good reasons to post anonymously, but it's hardly a new idea.
Also, it's not exactly hard to set up a new social media platform. (The hard part is persuading people to use it.) When we were moving over from the WhatsOnStage forum one of the options we considered was rolling our own: renting server space in the cloud and setting up our own forum. There's obviously the issue of funding it but it's not difficult, and given that you can put the servers anywhere in the world that has an electricity supply and a network connection it's not as if anyone can stop you. If posting to the current social media platforms becomes too much of a pain users will want to migrate elsewhere, and if there's a need there'll be companies willing to meet that need.
Also many people with perfectly legitimate and valid if controversial views would be punished if they couldn’t express them online because other people might not like that view. Those people tend not to use Twitter to express those views anyway. The big companies would be able to afford ID checks - Facebook sort of does now but only if an account flag’s it’s systems. But not for profit forums would find it another cost. The UK not having ID cards would make it even more awkward as they wouldn’t be one Id database to check but passport/Driving license/bus pass? Considering the Government has admitted free Id will be needed to be provided for possibly over a million people to vote it could get quite awkward. Plus they are concerns that certain categories of disabled people are effectively forced to buy a passport for ID requirements that passport or driving license only. |
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Post by christya on Oct 17, 2021 10:24:43 GMT
No. My name, etc, is none of anybody’s business, whether they like what I say or not. What next, people turning up at your house because you hurt their feelings on the Internet? There are already laws for actual harassment and that’s quite enough, thanks.
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Post by cavocado on Oct 17, 2021 10:28:58 GMT
My main concern would be that without anonymity, people and companies would be able to google my name and link together all of my social media accounts/posts to get a pretty accurate picture of my life, family, views, job, hobbies, qualifications, health, history, etc, which feels very intrusive, and for some people it would make them vulnerable.
But I do have a lot of worries about social media and the abuse that anonymity allows, and I don't think we should see it as a right to post - we can all delete accounts if we don't like the rules. If anonymity was banned I probably would delete the big ones like Twitter for my own privacy, but stick with a few smaller ones (like this one). To me the biggest benefit of social media is being able to discuss niche interests with other enthusiasts.
I wouldn't mind if I had to somehow show ID before getting an account, but then could keep an anonymous posting ID, as long as there were strict privacy/data protection rules that meant my info was carefully protected, but I can't see how that would work.
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Post by happytobehere on Oct 17, 2021 11:14:52 GMT
No I wouldn’t. That seems like an unnecessary amount of personal information just so I can share my opinions on theatre shows.
Not to mention this whole debate around forcing ID for social media websites/forums is potentially very dangerous for LGBTQ+ folks; it’s a very bad idea indeed.
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 17, 2021 11:22:28 GMT
No I wouldn’t. That seems like an unnecessary amount of personal information just so I can share my opinions on theatre shows. Not to mention this whole debate around forcing ID for social media websites/forums is potentially very dangerous for LGBTQ+ folks; it’s a very bad idea indeed. And it would be a minefield to decide who is or is not entitled to protection and exemptions. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 12:29:25 GMT
That sounds like the sort of idea that politicians who know nothing about the Internet would think up. How could you verify someone's photo ID? The whole point of photo IDs is that you have to compare the photo with the actual physical person standing in front of you. Without that person the photo is meaningless. It could be anybody. Or it could be nobody.
In the early days of the Internet everybody posted under their own names. The Internet wasn't seen as anything special: it was just a way of communicating, and people no more considered adopting an alternative identity for the Internet than they would for the telephone. Until the late 1990s it was assumed that anybody who didn't use their real name — or at least something that looked like a real name, because nobody checked — was up to no good. These days it's probably not advisable to use your real name given that some unethical employers use social media to spy on their employees, and there are certainly people living under oppressive regimes who have extremely good reasons to post anonymously, but it's hardly a new idea.
Also, it's not exactly hard to set up a new social media platform. (The hard part is persuading people to use it.) When we were moving over from the WhatsOnStage forum one of the options we considered was rolling our own: renting server space in the cloud and setting up our own forum. There's obviously the issue of funding it but it's not difficult, and given that you can put the servers anywhere in the world that has an electricity supply and a network connection it's not as if anyone can stop you. If posting to the current social media platforms becomes too much of a pain users will want to migrate elsewhere, and if there's a need there'll be companies willing to meet that need.
Gov.uk have updated their advice on how companies have to do right to work checks during Covid. Rest assured, the government believes it is very possible to verify a photo ID www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-right-to-work-checks |
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Post by mkb on Oct 17, 2021 12:59:37 GMT
Photo id checks can be done well and efficiently. I've just returned from one country where they were an essential part of getting a four-day Covid Safe Key (QR code) without which I wasn't getting into any indoor public spaces that involved a prolonged stay
Don't some European countries require it to access porn? (Asking for a friend...)
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 17, 2021 13:09:04 GMT
Photo id checks can be done well and efficiently. I've just returned from one country where they were an essential part of getting a four-day Covid Safe Key (QR code) without which I wasn't getting into any indoor public spaces that involved a prolonged stay Don't some European countries require it to access porn? (Asking for a friend...) I am not sure any country has managed it for online porn. The UK tried and it ended up getting abandoned. Some countries have a ID card system which makes it much easier - over here only a passport is universally accessible for citizens (as medical conditions means some people can’t have a provisional driving license) and that is not exactly cheap. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 13:46:51 GMT
No, I'm afraid I wouldn't. Some on here know my first name and I've met a few other posters, but that is as far as I am willing to go in terms of sharing private information.
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Post by lynette on Oct 17, 2021 13:55:19 GMT
( shuffling and clicking noises heard as this person tries to find a nice pic of a relatively unknown but seriously fab person to post as ID on this site..)
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Post by londonpostie on Oct 17, 2021 16:44:52 GMT
We have to arrest the tidal wave of emotional violence and manipulation that happens on the internet. In growing numbers we've got pre-teen girls in A&E becasue of self-harming via peer violence. 10 years ago no one kept this data because there was nothing to keep. Zero. Now, it's literally the tip of the hugest iceberg in history. This can be a really nasty pernicious tool. Imo, Gen Z -as the first generation who know only a world with social media - is already fu$ked; it's better and safer in the long run to *like* the right things and *block* ('cancel') the wrong things, and the groups tells you what is right and wrong and if you ever want any friends just conform. For most teens, this is much better than facts, or science - just go with the group 'feelings'. From friends or family or directly, you've known this since before school.
I used to accept it was about freedom of speech and privacy but, FFS, this has already spiralled way out of control down the age demographic.
I don't know what the answer is but where this leads is horrendous. And all we're doing is creating asset/investment growth and larger and larger USA billionaires.
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Post by kathryn on Oct 17, 2021 19:41:42 GMT
I want to be able to compartmentalise my internet life from my real life.
I used to be fairly relaxed about re-using screen names across sites, but after posting too much on a certain subject on different forms of social media, someone who was similarly interested in the subject managed to stalk me across sites (which I realised when they vehemently disagreed with me and got personal in the process). That was a wake up call about how easy it is to be targeted by someone, and now I am more cautious.
There are sadly plenty of nutters out there who don’t know how to agree to disagree, to walk away and leave an argument alone, and some of them will try to make your real life difficult if you give them a chance.
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Post by Phantom of London on Oct 17, 2021 20:38:31 GMT
If the Government cannot enforce a mask mandate during a pandemic, they’re not going to enforce this.
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Post by originalconceptlive on Oct 18, 2021 8:00:36 GMT
I think one problem with this is that because we use the internet for so many different things these days, removing anonymity on internet platforms wouldn't just bring internet interactions on par with face-to-face interactions. It would go further, whether intentionally or not.
For example, in real life if I were to snap out a rude comment to a sales assistant, or voice a controversial opinion at a dinner party just to get attention (neither very admirable actions), there would generally be some stronger social accountability/consequences in real life than I would have got anonymously online. I would have to look the other person/people involved in the eye while behaving in that way, and others in the vicinity would likely see the interaction and show their own disapproval. Unlike an anonymous interaction on the internet, I couldn't just abruptly exit if I wanted to get away from the awkwardness, either - or not without looking like an idiot.
So on the surface, it might seem that eliminating anonymity in internet interactions would just help to bring that level of reasonable accountability to the medium. But if real life were like an internet without anonymity... the sales assistant's store could put out a loudspeaker announcement to the entire neighbourhood, proclaiming my identity and misdeeds and asking everyone to direct their displeasure at me. An offended dinner party guest could access a catalogue of all my previous real-life social interactions, collate my worst moments from the past 10 years, and circulate them to my friends, family, employer, acquaintances with whom I share common interests, and the public at large. Et cetera. This might sound dramatic, but it's not far off some internet behaviour one sees these days. I wouldn't want that kind of crazy enabled for internet interactions any more than it already is.
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Post by hairspray57 on Oct 18, 2021 9:28:21 GMT
Also it would mean people who have a need - or simply want to, hide from someone - would not be able to post on public forums if they had to use their real name.
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Post by nick on Oct 18, 2021 9:42:52 GMT
Using real names can be a problem. As an IT teacher (now retired) I always tell youngsters to keep their information private online and that includes using an alias instead of their real name.
Personally I don't have a problem because I know enough to protect my privacy and to avoid trolling/bullying but I'm probably being a little naive.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Oct 18, 2021 11:06:22 GMT
I wouldn’t be able to post here under my real name because I work in theatre and it would damage my career. I don’t post anything that’s hateful or bigoted but simply saying I disliked a production could easily cost me a job. It’s nice being able to share my honest opinions on what plays I like and dislike because that’s the whole point of a board like this.
People advocating for an end to anonymity never think about vulnerable people who need anonymity, eg victims of stalking, rape and incest survivors, people living in abusive homes, minors dealing with family abuse, people living with mental illness or even some physical illnesses, and people struggling with sexual or gender identity, all of whom might rely on the Internet as a safe space to discuss issues and gain support over subjects where discussing those things under their real names might actively endanger them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 12:01:32 GMT
I don't see any real benefit from removing the ability to have a virtual identity. Using this forum as an example, for all practical purposes the names people use here are their real names, at least as far as we're concerned. A name is just a label by which other people recognise you and the only people who need to recognise you here are the other people here, so what difference does it make that the name we know you by isn't the name that you use elsewhere? As long as people have a consistent identity for each context, where's the problem?
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Post by craig on Oct 18, 2021 12:28:04 GMT
I don't think using real names online is desirable or necessary (despite using my real name on here!) but I passionately believe it must be possible to hold people account for their actions online. In a previous life, I used to work with popstars and the threats and graphic, specific abuse that was directed at some of them was really disturbing and a lot for those people to deal with on a personal level. This was years ago too, and it has only gotten worse.
You should absolutely have to have your identity verified by social media companies, IMO.
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Post by londonpostie on Oct 18, 2021 13:09:26 GMT
It doesn't have to be binary, and there good arguments on both sides. But what's happening NOW is not healthy for future generations. In the medium term, I don't even think democracy can maintain in the present form. It's open season on everything, often by forces beyond national borders and with vested interests. There are very sophisticated manipulators at work shaping public perspectives, influencing national agendas, targetting individuals, and very much more. And we're just a very few years into the world of bots, this is before productive AI gears up.
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