914 posts
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Post by karloscar on Dec 13, 2021 12:14:02 GMT
This was very enjoyable. I was hesitant about a reimagined WSS but this was done pretty perfectly. The only disagreement I have with some other posters here is that I felt like Ansel Elgort was horrible casting. He dims every scene he’s in imo. Both vocally and comparative innate charisma, Rachel Zegler completely blew him away in every scene they shared. They needed to find someone who could match her better in order for me to truly buy into the fact that Maria would do so much to be with Tony. That’s my 2 cents at least. I agree to an extent - he's certainly the weakest lead from a casting perspective. I warmed to him by the end, but I felt he lacked energy and charisma in the early scenes. I also felt he stood out as very clean cut compared to the rest of the Jets. I'm sure that was a conscious choice as Tony is trying to disengage from his past, but I just didn't believe the character as styled and interpreted would ever have been part of the same gang as the others - let alone be one of their leaders. Apart from that, I absolutely loved this version. As others have said, the direction and overall production is spot on. It's nostalgic without feeling like an homage, and the subtle changes to the source material (which is brilliant, I know) lift it further into something which feels relevant and exciting. Heartbreaking. We stayed and sat through the credits just to give it all time to sink in, and Ariana DeBose is incredible. A flawless performance which had me gripped every time she was on screen. I really liked Ansel Elgort's performance, Spielberg directed him to play his solos as low key as possible, making it look like he was an ordinary guy walking along the street rather than musical theatre emoting during Maria. Making Maria more feisty means that she leads their scenes together, going to kiss him first and being clear about what she wants. His scenes with Riff when he talks about prison and learning Spanish with Valentina give more colour and background than Tony normally gets. Giving Cool to Riff and Tony arguing over the gun makes dramatic sense and adds an extra danger early on, and the fist fight with Bernardo before the knives come out shows how easy it is for Tony to really lose control when provoked. I thought for a second he'd killed Bernardo too soon. As for his singing, I was pretty impressed, especially in One Hand One Heart which has left me cold any time I've seen WSS on stage or in the original movie where it's the most boringly staged love song ever. As is often the case, I think the performances in this version will benefit from repeated viewing, there's a lot of details that I'm sure I missed at my first screening. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 13:55:23 GMT
Anybody wanting to see this on a decent screen has until tomorrow. From Wednesday, the new Spiderman/Marvel film is taking over in 80% of the slots and all the big auditoria. So no chance to build word-of-mouth. I actually enjoyed it more second time round on a smaller screen! |
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7,176 posts
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Post by Jon on Dec 13, 2021 14:18:23 GMT
I find it very hard to believe that the way the cinema exhibition industry works these days, with saturation coverage of each big release, optimises the number of bums on seats overall. I understand why they want to go big, to capitalise on the initial hype, but they go way over the top, and simply alienate those regular filmgoers who have no interest in the Marvel universe and a paucity of alternative offerings. Spider-Man is going to make a lot of money, I can't blame cinemas for maximising bums on seats as they'll make more from a full screen than a half empty one and judging from the presales, it's the best decision. |
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1,482 posts
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Post by mkb on Dec 13, 2021 14:39:19 GMT
I find it very hard to believe that the way the cinema exhibition industry works these days, with saturation coverage of each big release, optimises the number of bums on seats overall. I understand why they want to go big, to capitalise on the initial hype, but they go way over the top, and simply alienate those regular filmgoers who have no interest in the Marvel universe and a paucity of alternative offerings. Spider-Man is going to make a lot of money, I can't blame cinemas for maximising bums on seats as they'll make more from a full screen than a half empty one and judging from the presales, it's the best decision. Perhaps I didn't make my point well. I don't think they are maximising revenue with their current approach. My local Odeon is putting Spiderman on in 7 out of 8 screens. A few evening shows will sell out but most will be lightly attended. The industry is obsessed with having a performance start every 30 minutes. Hardly anyone is opportunistic passing trade. People check the times online and having to wait an hour, rather than 30 minutes, before you set off to the cinema will deter no-one. Had my local cinema programmed Spiderman in just 4 screens, say, capacity would have been sufficient most of the time, and on the odd occasion where it was not, what typically happens is that people pick a different film and come back another day to see their first choice. |
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2,016 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 13, 2021 14:44:34 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. WHAAAT?! Oh, my father is going to hate it then! I read some bullsh1t justification earlier for it from Spielberg. I expected better of him than "pandering" |
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7,176 posts
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Post by Jon on Dec 13, 2021 14:44:41 GMT
Perhaps I didn't make my point well. I don't think they are maximising revenue with their current approach. My local Odeon is putting Spiderman on in 7 out of 8 screens. A few evening shows will sell out but most will be lightly attended. The industry is obsessed with having a performance start every 30 minutes. Hardly anyone is opportunistic passing trade. People check the times online and having to wait an hour, rather than 30 minutes, before you set off to the cinema will deter no-one. Had my local cinema programmed Spiderman in just 4 screens, say, capacity would have been sufficient most of the time, and on the odd occasion where it was not, what typically happens is that people pick a different film and come back another day to see their first choice. Thing is, if Spider-Man ends up selling out then cinemas will end up cancelling low attended screenings of other films anyway which will annoy people and is a faff to refund tickets. |
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Post by sprampster on Dec 13, 2021 14:54:57 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. WHAAAT?! Oh, my father is going to hate it then! I read some bullsh1t justification earlier for it from Spielberg. I expected better of him than "pandering" Bullsh*t justification  Come in the man is a professional and knows what he is doing ! Having seen the film you know exactly what they are saying . It’s not pandering it actually highlights the situation they were in. Watch the film first and then see if he is pandering |
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2,859 posts
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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 13, 2021 14:55:50 GMT
there must be no more than 5 minutes of Spanish in the whole movie and it's just chit chat. Non Spanish speakers won't miss any crucial plot point
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1,482 posts
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Post by mkb on Dec 13, 2021 15:02:24 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. WHAAAT?! Oh, my father is going to hate it then! I read some bullsh1t justification earlier for it from Spielberg. I expected better of him than "pandering" I really struggle to get my head around the mindsets of people who believe any old nonsense they read/hear. In this instance, 40% is a complete fabrication. There are maybe a dozen or so sentences in Spanish. It's obvious what the sentiment is or they are repeated immediately in English. I don't speak a word of Spanish and had no issue with comprehension. |
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Post by marob on Dec 13, 2021 15:04:17 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. WHAAAT?! Oh, my father is going to hate it then! I read some bullsh1t justification earlier for it from Spielberg. I expected better of him than "pandering" That was from the first reaction to it on Twitter. Haven’t seen it myself (yet) but it is apparently far less than that. |
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2,016 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 13, 2021 15:04:52 GMT
there must be no more than 5 minutes of Spanish in the whole movie and it's just chit chat. Non Spanish speakers won't miss any crucial plot point Phew! My Dad will moan like hell when I take him, but I think he can cope with 5 minutes! |
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2,016 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 13, 2021 15:05:45 GMT
I hope this is still going to be showing in cinemas by Xmas Eve?
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2,859 posts
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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 13, 2021 15:06:40 GMT
It just bagged Golden Globe nominations for best movie, director, actress and supporting actress (DeBose)
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1,482 posts
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Post by mkb on Dec 13, 2021 15:12:08 GMT
Thing is, if Spider-Man ends up selling out then cinemas will end up cancelling low attended screenings of other films anyway which will annoy people and is a faff to refund tickets. That's terrible. I've never experienced that in the cinemas I go to. I'm often the only audience member and have never had a screening cancelled for commercial reasons. Please name and shame those that have done it, so I can avoid. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 15:13:42 GMT
Looking forward to it, but my heart just sank at the tweet in that article saying about 40% of the dialogue is subtitle-less Spanish. WHAAAT?! Oh, my father is going to hate it then! I read some bullsh1t justification earlier for it from Spielberg. I expected better of him than "pandering" If you think respecting the Latinx community and their language is a "bullsh*t justification", then this isn't the film for you and frankly both you and your father need to grow up. The meaning from the dialogue is entirely obvious and it enhances the authenticity of the film. |
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1,482 posts
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Post by mkb on Dec 13, 2021 15:22:04 GMT
To be fair, Spielberg's justification, is bizarre. There is nothing disrespectful about subtitling dialogue that an audience may not understand. I expect he has been quoted out of context.
It feels to me more like a justifiable creative decision. Anita, the character who is keenest to assimilate to US culture, repeatedly insists that her compatriots speak English. Having characters drift back into Spanish underscores the identity and cultural battle at play.
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2,016 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Dec 13, 2021 15:39:55 GMT
WHAAAT?! Oh, my father is going to hate it then! I read some bullsh1t justification earlier for it from Spielberg. I expected better of him than "pandering" If you think respecting the Latinx community and their language is a "bullsh*t justification", then this isn't the film for you and frankly both you and your father need to grow up. The meaning from the dialogue is entirely obvious and it enhances the authenticity of the film. the fact you've just used the term "Latinx" tells me all I need to know, thanks. Say no more |
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Post by danb on Dec 13, 2021 16:32:38 GMT
I will pointlessly join the cavalcade of praise for this gorgeous bit of film making. I loved it all, especially Elgort & Faist.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 16:50:41 GMT
If you think respecting the Latinx community and their language is a "bullsh*t justification", then this isn't the film for you and frankly both you and your father need to grow up. The meaning from the dialogue is entirely obvious and it enhances the authenticity of the film. the fact you've just used the term "Latinx" tells me all I need to know, thanks. Say no more Latinx is the word that people of that descent, the West Side Story Sharks cast included, use. Do pray tell on what basis you think that using a word chosen by the community in question is wrong? The intolerance in your last couple of posts is astounding. |
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Post by longinthetooth on Dec 13, 2021 17:02:29 GMT
I can't make it this week, and to my surprise and disappointment it's not being shown in my local cinemas beyond Thursday 16th.
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Post by David J on Dec 13, 2021 17:20:23 GMT
the fact you've just used the term "Latinx" tells me all I need to know, thanks. Say no more Latinx is the word that people of that descent, the West Side Story Sharks cast included, use. Do pray tell on what basis you think that using a word chosen by the community in question is wrong? The intolerance in your last couple of posts is astounding. The term isn't that widely used by the Hispanic community who consider it offensive. It's only used by a small group of vocal progressives, politicians and the pandering media And frankly, when Spielberg is saying things like "If I subtitled the Spanish, I'd simply be doubling down on the English and giving English the power over the Spanish", no wonder the movie is struggling to get general audiences. |
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Post by Mr Crummles on Dec 13, 2021 18:56:36 GMT
There is very little Spanish in the film. No more, for instance, than there is German in a World War II film, in which you hear German soldiers and officers speaking German. The Spanish is there mainly for dramatic effect. It is there to highlight a sense of alienation in the Puerto Rican community. It's used mostly in scenes of strong disagreement or violence in which the body language and pitch of voices are more eloquent than the meaning of the words themselves. Anybody can easily recognise anger, or love, or fear, - be it in Swedish, Japanese or Greek. Actually, in real life, my experience is precisely the opposite, when people are angry - or the very opposite of it - they suddenly become very fluent in the language they daily struggle to communicate in, as if to be 100% sure the receiving end understands very well what they mean to say.
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Post by anthony40 on Dec 13, 2021 19:03:58 GMT
So, since seeing this film yesterday I have been thinking about this all day.
I don't want to parrot what has already been said about the performances but this (truly) was brilliant, in so many ways.
Just a few thoughts.
Firstly, the dance at the gym.
Apart from the dynamic dancing but the costumes.
The Jets we all in varying shades of blues, mints, greens and browns. Whereas The Sharks in pinks, reds. magnets and crimsons.
And that raincoat yellow of Anita's dress with the red underskirt in the America sequence.
At the beginning of the film there is rubble with the image of the Lincoln Centre.
This is a direct link back to the original film.
Don't know if you're aware of this but where the Lincoln Centre now stands is where the original movie was filmed.
I do also recognise that there were large chunks of dialogue in the original film, that wasn't included in this version.
For example when Bernardo and Chino walk into the dress shop and being uncomfortable Chino says "But this is a shop for ladies!"
And by moving 'One Hand, One Heart' away from the dress shop you loose all of the dialogue with the mannequins dating in as Tony and Maria's parents.
Also at the beginning of the film Maria pleading with Anita to lower the neckline of the white dress by 'one little inch'
Or Anita taking a bubble bath (Anita's gonna get her kicks tonight) and she references a scented perfume "Black orchard; definably Black Orchard. When your brother gets home he is so healthy!"
Chino and Graziella; both minor characters but good to see each each role expanded somewhat.
So in this version we see Chino develop as a person, in confidence and in his dancing to his courage to carry out his final act.
Graziella- we leant that she was originally Tony's girlfriend an now she's with Riff.
Despite the rift between The Stars and The Jets and the fact that she was physically locked outside the drug store, it was good to see her fiercely trying to a get back in to assist Anita.
Thank God no songs were cut or added!
Again, just a few thoughts
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7,176 posts
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Post by Jon on Dec 13, 2021 23:50:14 GMT
There is very little Spanish in the film. No more, for instance, than there is German in a World War II film, in which you hear German soldiers and officers speaking German. The Spanish is there mainly for dramatic effect. It is there to highlight a sense of alienation in the Puerto Rican community. It's used mostly in scenes of strong disagreement or violence in which the body language and pitch of voices are more eloquent than the meaning of the words themselves. Anybody can easily recognise anger, or love, or fear, - be it in Swedish, Japanese or Greek. Actually, in real life, my experience is precisely the opposite, when people are angry - or the very opposite of it - they suddenly become very fluent in the language they daily struggle to communicate in, as if to be 100% sure the receiving end understands very well what they mean to say. I agree although I found it interesting that Maria, Anita and to an extent Chino spoke a lot more English compared to the Sharks. Actually did Valentina speak any Spanish, I know she did in one scene to help Tony but not sure if she spoke to anyone else. |
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Post by WireHangers on Dec 14, 2021 9:34:17 GMT
There is very little Spanish in the film. No more, for instance, than there is German in a World War II film, in which you hear German soldiers and officers speaking German. The Spanish is there mainly for dramatic effect. It is there to highlight a sense of alienation in the Puerto Rican community. It's used mostly in scenes of strong disagreement or violence in which the body language and pitch of voices are more eloquent than the meaning of the words themselves. Anybody can easily recognise anger, or love, or fear, - be it in Swedish, Japanese or Greek. Actually, in real life, my experience is precisely the opposite, when people are angry - or the very opposite of it - they suddenly become very fluent in the language they daily struggle to communicate in, as if to be 100% sure the receiving end understands very well what they mean to say. I agree although I found it interesting that Maria, Anita and to an extent Chino spoke a lot more English compared to the Sharks. Actually did Valentina speak any Spanish, I know she did in one scene to help Tony but not sure if she spoke to anyone else. She briefly spoke to Anita in Spanish when she saved her from the Jets. |
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Come in the man is a professional and knows what he is doing ! Having seen the film you know exactly what they are saying . It’s not pandering it actually highlights the situation they were in. Watch the film first and then see if he is pandering 
