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Post by HereForTheatre on Apr 7, 2021 2:06:48 GMT
It's not just a covid passport, it's a covid status passport, which means that anyone not vaccinated can still be accepted into places with negative tests.
Something that seems to have slipped through the net is the fact that from Friday everyone will have access to multiple free rapid home test kits every week for this very use in the future via their local chemists, local testing Centres or online order.
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Post by nick on Apr 7, 2021 7:09:38 GMT
In a crisis (nearly) everyone makes a sacrifice. But it's never fair. In WWII every group had to make changes but it was the young men who gave their lives while, let's say, rich people living in the countryside felt a much smaller impact. But, on the whole, the government was trusted so when they made decisions most people were happy to follow them for the greater good.
Things are rather different these days. Boris has flipped flopped and made so many half thought out decisions we don't trust his judgement.
Nobody wants Covid to get a grip again. If we were told by somebody we trusted that passports would stop the need for another lockdown then many people (not all) would accept it. But I don't think any person or group has the full trust of the public.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 8:15:41 GMT
Young vs old.
Us vs them.
Me vs you.
Stop it.
We're all in this together.
We've all made different sacrifices.
It's a weight on society as a whole.
There is nothing productive to be had in divisive attitudes.
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2,340 posts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 7, 2021 8:55:16 GMT
Young vs old. Us vs them. Me vs you. Stop it. We're all in this together. We've all made different sacrifices. It's a weight on society as a whole. There is nothing productive to be had in divisive attitudes. Leader |
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2,412 posts
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Post by theatreian on Apr 7, 2021 8:55:27 GMT
Everyone whether young or old has had to adapt and make changes.It could be argued the older have had to make more sacrifices than the young as they have often been denied seeing their families etc when they have less time left to live. I haven't seen my parents since August. Everyone has had to make changes and we shouldn't be arguing who has made the most. We all need to do what we can to come out the other side in as good a shape as possible.
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Post by vickyg on Apr 7, 2021 10:54:07 GMT
The absolute bitterness of some people who have suddenly realised that being part of society means following the law and occasionally having to do something you would prefer not to for the good of the whole...
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Post by sph on Apr 7, 2021 18:15:17 GMT
It isn't a couple more weeks, it is probably more like six months before those at the younger end of the spectrum have had two doses, so don't underplay what you are advocating. I presume you are in a group that has been or will be vaccinated, as otherwise I don't see how you could support restrictions by vaccination status alone until everyone has at least been offered two doses. Going to the cinema is not important. Going to the theatre is not important. Going to a concert is not important. I used to think this too. But then I stopped and thought about it. Going to the cinema is not a necessity to the customer. But it's a necessity for the people who depend on them for their income. Going to the pub or a restaurant is not a necessity but... it's a necessity for the many, many people in this country who depend on the hospitality industry to keep their rent paid and their kids fed. I'm not saying it was wrong to close these sectors, I'm just saying that it's short-sighted to assume that because they are "luxuries", they can be removed. Think how many pubs/restaurants there are in this country in even the tiniest village. That's a LOT of people finding themselves in very difficult circumstances. And follow the chain up: The suppliers who have to lay people off, the makers of produce that has nowhere to be sold. The businesses that just couldn't survive the last year. No they aren't a "necessity" in the traditional sense of the word, but their loss is felt greatly by those who genuinely need them to survive. Going to a concert is not important, sure, but what happened to all the people who worked in the venues? Ticketing? Local businesses who relied on the crowds for custom? I'm not against lockdowns, but I am always astounded by how brazenly people sweep the loss of these businesses under the rug, and what it means for the vast numbers of people affected. It's not about losing your "night out", it's about losing industries and saddling the country with a debt which surely cannot be paid. But... you know: "I'm alright Jack! Pull up the ladder!" |
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Post by Mark on Apr 7, 2021 18:29:01 GMT
Where do you get six months from? Every adult is to be offered a vaccine by the end of July and then it’s a 12 week wait from there. By my calculations that’s not six months and as I said, only the very youngest of adults will be impacted. Going to the cinema is not important. Going to the theatre is not important. Going to a concert is not important. End of July is 3 months and 3 weeks away. Add another 3 month for second doses. Where are you not seeing the 6 months here? It's actually closer to 7. As for those things you deem not important, they are important to many many people, not least as mentioned above those who work in those industries and rely on them for their livlihoods. |
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 7, 2021 18:32:15 GMT
It isn't a couple more weeks, it is probably more like six months before those at the younger end of the spectrum have had two doses, so don't underplay what you are advocating. I presume you are in a group that has been or will be vaccinated, as otherwise I don't see how you could support restrictions by vaccination status alone until everyone has at least been offered two doses. Going to the cinema is not important. Going to the theatre is not important. Going to a concert is not important. If people don't go to the cinema or theatre, they have to let staff go. They don't then spend money in the surrounding bars and restaurants, thus they have to cut staff or go out of business. This seems to be what the Government doesn't understand about supporting different sectors. It's a labyrinthine system of economics that connects businesses in a town centre. Going to concerts is not important? Tell that to the backstage crews who have had no support for the past year. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 20:05:05 GMT
Lots of interesting points!
First of all, doesn't seem there is any plan to base this just on vaccines. The 'covid status certification' would be vaccine, or positive test in last 6 months, or -ve test pre event (currently free under new scheme). So there is no concern that it would discriminate against those not yet offered vaccine.
I do agree with those who have said it is a small price to pay. As for theatre being essential? Well, it is essential to those who work in it, as has been said. And the benefits to mental health to some of those who see it - I think a year+ down the line, the time has come to have a more holistic view of health, so one could argue that it is almost essential.
I think the whole passport/certification thing also looks further down the line. I believe they are looking at ways to KEEP things open. So if new variants, or vaccines wearing off, or whatever else cause a new wave next Winter, then perhaps passports can act as a way to keep the industry open in a way that couldn't be done in the previous waves. And that is very important!
I also agree with the points that we have all made sacrifices and that we will all continue to make sacrifices for the greater good. It's why I have little/no sympathy with anti-vaxers. Totally failing to understand that the whole point of vaccination programmes is to protect populations, not individuals. It's something that needs to be done for society.
So yes, for many reasons I am reconciled with covid status certification.
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5,062 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 7, 2021 20:47:18 GMT
I would welcome a vaccine passport with open arms, if it meant theatre can get back, people can go on holiday, which means people can go back to work, getting the economy back and we can all start enjoying life.
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Post by sph on Apr 7, 2021 21:34:27 GMT
Lots of interesting points! As for theatre being essential? Well, it is essential to those who work in it, as has been said. And the benefits to mental health to some of those who see it - I think a year+ down the line, the time has come to have a more holistic view of health, so one could argue that it is almost essential. I get the point, but how many of us rushed out to buy things from Debenhams or Topshop to stop them closing down to keep people employed? Do we hold theatre in some sort higher regard? The real argument is business is essential because it keeps people employed but as we all know, businesses come and go and that’s just how it is - and theatre is no exception. I think there's a difference between companies like Debenhams and Topshop dwindling to a close because they were losing their appeal, and entire sectors of society like hospitality being shut down overnight. Theatre wasn't a business that "came and went", it was a full industry which ejected it's entire workforce in a very short space of time leaving thousands scrambling for jobs and livelihoods all at the same time. I understand the point that sometimes shows close and people lose their jobs, but not "EVERY SINGLE SHOW ON THE PLANET AS OF TODAY". |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 11:25:58 GMT
Very interesting that OAT has looked at the roadmap and concluded they should introduce social distancing for Carousel. Given this is a) outdoors and b) almost 6 weeks after the 21st June, doesn’t fill one with confidence for all the indoor non distanced stuff!
But I remain, as ever, highly hopeful with everything crossed.
Interesting times....
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1,863 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 8, 2021 11:33:51 GMT
Similarly e-Mail from Regent’s Park Theatre today stating the Summer Season will be at 50% seating capacity.
If outdoor Theatres are reticent of opening at full capacity it is unlikely any indoor ones will open to full capacity in the near future.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 11:41:13 GMT
Similarly e-Mail from Regent’s Park Theatre today stating the Summer Season will be at 50% seating capacity. If outdoor Theatres are reticent of opening at full capacity it is unlikely any indoor ones will open to full capacity in the near future. Indeed. I’m taking this as a development that has very little June 21st confidence sadly. |
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Post by sph on Apr 8, 2021 11:56:07 GMT
That's sad. Maybe they'll add more tickets and increase capacity during the run if audiences seems comfortable and easing of restrictions has gone well?
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2,496 posts
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Post by zahidf on Apr 8, 2021 12:55:14 GMT
That's sad. Maybe they'll add more tickets and increase capacity during the run if audiences seems comfortable and easing of restrictions has gone well? Yup, theyve said that they will change social distancing to full capacity if they can, and they reserve the right to sit people next to you in the future.... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 14:08:25 GMT
Similarly e-Mail from Regent’s Park Theatre today stating the Summer Season will be at 50% seating capacity. If outdoor Theatres are reticent of opening at full capacity it is unlikely any indoor ones will open to full capacity in the near future. Indeed. I’m taking this as a development that has very little June 21st confidence sadly. Or just that's it's more sensible to be cautious and ensure you can definitely open in some way that means you might be able to put more seats on sale later, or a decision that they think people are more likely to buy tickets if seats are socially-distanced. Neither of which mean that 21 June won't happen, they are just eminently sensible planning strategies that make commercial sense in the circumstances. And pretty much everyone is doing the same. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 17:31:45 GMT
Indeed. I’m taking this as a development that has very little June 21st confidence sadly. Or just that's it's more sensible to be cautious and ensure you can definitely open in some way that means you might be able to put more seats on sale later, or a decision that they think people are more likely to buy tickets if seats are socially-distanced. Neither of which mean that 21 June won't happen, they are just eminently sensible planning strategies that make commercial sense in the circumstances. And pretty much everyone is doing the same. That's a great point actually yes, maybe they are just playing it safe. And good they are happy to open socially distanced and take the financial hit rather than postponing again. I do wonder what the likes of Cinderella, Joseph, Poppins etc will do if distancing still in force. I really hope they open anyway, knowing that distancing will only be short term. I rather suspect however they'll get kicked further down the line. Which is daft as looking at availability currently, they could easily implement social distancing for the start of their runs, while confidence and demand builds up. Time will tell! |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 8, 2021 17:45:56 GMT
The Snooker World Championship final is a test event for full capacity indoor seated event.
Let's see how that pans out as a model for theatre
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1,483 posts
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Post by steve10086 on Apr 8, 2021 17:53:36 GMT
Or just that's it's more sensible to be cautious and ensure you can definitely open in some way that means you might be able to put more seats on sale later, or a decision that they think people are more likely to buy tickets if seats are socially-distanced. Neither of which mean that 21 June won't happen, they are just eminently sensible planning strategies that make commercial sense in the circumstances. And pretty much everyone is doing the same. That's a great point actually yes, maybe they are just playing it safe. And good they are happy to open socially distanced and take the financial hit rather than postponing again. I do wonder what the likes of Cinderella, Joseph, Poppins etc will do if distancing still in force. I really hope they open anyway, knowing that distancing will only be short term. I rather suspect will be toys out of pram time again though and they'll get kicked further down the line. Which is daft as looking at availability currently, they could easily implement social distancing for the start of their runs, while confidence and demand builds up. Time will tell! Postponing until they can go ahead without social distancing isn’t exactly “toys out of the pram time”. Bit insulting. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 17:55:52 GMT
That's a great point actually yes, maybe they are just playing it safe. And good they are happy to open socially distanced and take the financial hit rather than postponing again. I do wonder what the likes of Cinderella, Joseph, Poppins etc will do if distancing still in force. I really hope they open anyway, knowing that distancing will only be short term. I rather suspect however they'll get kicked further down the line. Which is daft as looking at availability currently, they could easily implement social distancing for the start of their runs, while confidence and demand builds up. Time will tell! Postponing until they can go ahead without social distancing isn’t exactly “toys out of the pram time”. Bit insulting. #Amended |
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Post by theatreian on Apr 8, 2021 21:19:59 GMT
The other issue with demand for seats will be there won't be sufficient to sustain the big shows at full capacity at the moment. Tourism will be way down as very few foreign tourists and domestic demand simply will not be enough to sustain the big shows at 8 shows a week.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 21:43:22 GMT
The other issue with demand for seats will be there won't be sufficient to sustain the big shows at full capacity at the moment. Tourism will be way down as very few foreign tourists and domestic demand simply will not be enough to sustain the big shows at 8 shows a week. I think you're spot on with this. Hence I think it would be a good idea for the big shows to consider opening at reduced capacity! |
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Post by vickyg on Apr 9, 2021 9:00:29 GMT
Interesting discussion on 'The Week in Art' podcast today about vaccine passports that have been developed in Denmark and Israel. In Denmark you are eligible if you have been fully vaccinated, have had the virus between two and twelve weeks ago or have a negative test in the last 72 hours and you seem to need it to do anything non-essential. This seems reasonable to me and wouldn't exclude anyone because I'm assuming, being Denmark, that testing is free and readily available. Israel has a 'green pass' but museums are exempt from this so there are obviously much wider exemptions.
I don't know how I feel about the idea of passports. On one hand I really don't think segregation of any kind has ever proven helpful (although being really honest part of me would love to punish antivaxxers for abdicating their responsibilities) but on the other hand it's vital to protect those people who can't be vaccinated and the population as a whole. Vaccines are only properly effective if levels of virus in the population overall is low. If there were enough unvaccinated people that the virus was able to circulate at a higher level vaccinated people remain at risk. I was also reminded by my CEO at work yesterday (hospital) that we are tested for hepatitis B on appointment and if you don't have antibodies you are required to be vaccinated in order to work there. So there is definitely precedent for excluding unvaccinated people in certain circumstances.
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