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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 1, 2021 13:58:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 20:19:46 GMT
This. All day. Coming out is not a once in a liftetime event. I did it fir the first time when I was 16. I have also continued to do so every time I start a new job/meet new colleagues, meet new neighbours, when speaking on the phone to service providers and more. The world assumes straight is the default so every time I mention my husband to another person who doesn’t know me the process starts again. The very first time it happened I knew I had to tell someone, but I couldn’t form the words. So I slid a piece of paper across to my friend in college with just two words on it. After that, it gradually got easier and I rid myself of the shame that originally came with coming out.
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Post by theatreian on Feb 1, 2021 23:17:56 GMT
For those of us who are gay , coming out is an ongoing process. As above it never ends which is a shame as the world still largely sees everyone as straight. But at least it is slightly easier now than it used to be. It can still be difficult though, depending on who it is you are coming out to . It should not be underestimated what an issue it can still be for many.
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Post by Scswp on Feb 2, 2021 9:32:17 GMT
For those of us who are gay , coming out is an ongoing process. As above it never ends which is a shame as the world still largely sees everyone as straight. But at least it is slightly easier now than it used to be. It can still be difficult though, depending on who it is you are coming out to . It should not be underestimated what an issue it can still be for many. You are absolutely correct. It is a very big deal for many, as it was for me. Strangely, my coming out to my family happened not completely by choice, but by circumstances. However, those circumstances actually ended up doing me a favour and coming out to family members was actually ‘anticlimactic’ (if that doesn’t sound too strange!) I’m not actually ‘out’ at work, though I know people know. In my family, it was just accepted without any fuss. I was lucky, I suppose. The message, though, is that some things may not be as ‘bad’ as you think. I hid my sexuality from my family for years and, in my head, built my coming out to them as a terrible moment that I couldn’t possibly face. As it turned out, there was no drama and no negativity; it was, in fact, positively liberating. I realise it will not be like this for everybody, but I am not unique. Many people will be far more accepting than you may initially think.
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Post by n1david on Feb 2, 2021 12:32:14 GMT
I wrote this on FB for Coming Out Day a few years ago. It prompted quite a few comments from straight friends of mine who'd never thought about the issue.
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Post by vdcni on Feb 2, 2021 15:27:24 GMT
I've met very few people who get that point, that we are often making split second decisions about what pronoun to use. Whether it is safe and what reaction it will get.
It took me a while to get my head around saying husband and yes I will sometimes just not correct hairdressers or similar.
I've seen comments from straight people, including on this board, about coming out along the lines of , why are they making such a big deal, it shouldn't need to be said etc, who don't just don't understand we are never the default. It's not making a grand statement it's just having the same freedom to talk about our life.
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Post by peggs on Feb 2, 2021 18:15:34 GMT
What a heartening story, I should think he'd have got a roaring approval of a response if the assembly had been in person, at least I hope so.
Yes 'coming out' is a bit of a questionable phrase isn't it, it's not like when you tell one person the world automatically knows. The default that a norm exists at all when it comes to sexuality and rather a lot of other things really, is sad, we so put people into boxes. As a single childless person it annoys me enough when people suggest that is unusual and not the norm so I can only imagine how it feels if people automatically make assumptions on your sexuality or gender. Yet I probably need this reminder as much as anyone to not assume anything.
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Post by kathryn on Feb 2, 2021 19:07:06 GMT
To be fair, statistically neither being gay nor being a single childless woman are the norm.
That’s just the way the demographic cookie crumbles.
Doesn’t mean much on an individual level though - we may be minority groups vs the rest of the population, but we’re large enough minorities that everyone will come across members of both demographic groups.
And who wants to be ‘the norm’ anyway?!
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Post by peggs on Feb 2, 2021 22:37:38 GMT
I think for my part I also meant when I find my single childless status treated as not normal, as in that is not normal, what is wrong with you, why don't you want to be a couple and/or have kids rather than just less usual. But yeah I don't think I want to be 'the norm' and there are plenty of us around.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 5, 2021 18:09:02 GMT
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 18:18:04 GMT
Personally I don't think my sexuality is anyone's business and I only come out to anyone I know will be hanging around in my circle for any length of time.
I work freelance and have to face a new group of work folk every couple of months. If someone asks me if I'm gay I usually say 'why do you wanna have sex with me?' to which I always get an embarrassing 'no' and that's the end of it. If it come up again I just say 'yeah sorry about that, I just wanted to make you feel as uncomfortable as your question made me feel' and then it never gets brought up again lol
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Post by kathryn on Feb 5, 2021 20:46:04 GMT
This is what I think the closeted gay footballers in the Premier League should do. There’s almost certainly at least one gay player in every team - and rumour has it that there are plenty who are out at their club with no problems at all and it’s just going public that they don’t want to do because of fan abuse that would go with being ‘first’. If they all did it en masse none of them would be singled out as a target.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 5, 2021 20:53:13 GMT
Whilst I agree that coming out as a group would be a great event for football, I think the tribal nature of many fans would still lead to a lot of abuse.
I can't fathom why sports engenders this sort of passion. It seems so much more extreme than any other mainstream interest/activity.
But I do think that there would be hatred towards those who dared to be open about their sexuality. It could eventually lead to a better overall climate but it will not be an easy transition.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 5, 2021 20:54:42 GMT
Such a brilliant idea.
How about a national coming out day? Sounds tacky but solidarity and awareness is a great thing
Edit: or maybe Pride Month already tries to serve this purpose?
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Post by peggs on Feb 5, 2021 20:59:39 GMT
intoanewlife I can't believe people just as you if you are gay, I mean I do believe you but I'm shocked people think that's an appropriate thing to ask. kathryn I'd love to think that could happen, they'd still be horrible abuse and I can fully understand why you would chose not to, just look at the vitriol black players get for merely having the audacity to play football but it's a horrible catch 22 isn't in when no one comes out so it stays a huge unspoken unacknowledged thing. That would be a very powerful statement but I think people would still single players out, you can bet it would be deemed more acceptable for certain players depending on their race, ability, importance to a club etc. from certain unenlightened individuals.
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 5, 2021 21:43:29 GMT
What is dreadful and thankfully it doesn’t happen now and that is when someone comes out on your behalf, like the terrible conservative tabloid the Sun newspaper, with the atrocious and machiavellian Kelvin Mackenzie who sat in the wheel house and had used the word ‘poof’ in a headline. The Sun used to turn up on celebrities’ doorstep and out famous people. Someone who I used to listen to a lot on LBC in the night, you might know him many years ago from That’s Life with Esther Rantzen and that is Bill Buckley who was outed, this led to both his parents’ telling him they don’t want to ever see him again, this then led to poor mental health sadly for Bill. Bill used to talk freely about his experience on his show. Same happened to Nigel Hawthorne, it caused him problems and distress.
So even there could be some gay footballers, it is absolutely right there privacy is respected and great they won’t be now outed in the trash press. If a footballer did step up to the plate, I wouldn’t think it would be such a problem and the majority of the public will embrace it. Apart from one football club and that club being Millwall, the BLM taking the knee has been well accepted. Iain Dale another LBC presenter and who gay and proud to go and support his football club West Ham.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 21:52:53 GMT
intoanewlife I can't believe people just as you if you are gay, I mean I do believe you but I'm shocked people think that's an appropriate thing to ask. I take it thats meant to be ask? Of course they do. I'm a 50 year old man so naturally people ask if I'm married or have children and when I say no the gay question is usually next lol I find it is not as bad as it used to be, but still now if I say I have a partner I get the 'are they male or female' question which pisses me off because then I can't use my usual responce. It is usually millennials who don't really have a filter, but it still happens. Plus I work in tv so there's lots of us about x
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Post by marob on Feb 5, 2021 21:55:20 GMT
Phantom of London of London It does still happen though. I read an interview with an actor called Max Parker, who was forced to come out to his grandparents because of tabloid stories about him. They’d taken an interest in him because he stars in Emmerdale and had started dating the actor who played his brother on the show. Wasn’t there some story about Philip Schofield having to preempt a tabloid story as well?
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Post by kathryn on Feb 5, 2021 22:08:18 GMT
Whilst I agree that coming out as a group would be a great event for football, I think the tribal nature of many fans would still lead to a lot of abuse. I can't fathom why sports engenders this sort of passion. It seems so much more extreme than any other mainstream interest/activity. But I do think that there would be hatred towards those who dared to be open about their sexuality. It could eventually lead to a better overall climate but it will not be an easy transition. Oh I know there’d still be abuse - that’s the nature of football fans - but if both teams have gay players on the pitch then it’s a different dynamic. Much easier for the teams to take action against it in solidarity. Obviously we know from the experience of black players that horrendous abuse still happens, but increasingly players act in solidarity to protest it and clubs take action against ‘fans’ who perpetuate it. If it’s going to happen at all I think that’s the best way to manage it.
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Post by peggs on Feb 5, 2021 22:49:35 GMT
intoanewlife I can't believe people just as you if you are gay, I mean I do believe you but I'm shocked people think that's an appropriate thing to ask. I take it thats meant to be ask? Of course they do. I'm a 50 year old man so naturally people ask if I'm married or have children and when I say no the gay question is usually next lol I find it is not as bad as it used to be, but still now if I say I have a partner I get the 'are they male or female' question which pisses me off because then I can't use my usual responce. It is usually millennials who don't really have a filter, but it still happens. Plus I work in tv so there's lots of us about x Yes, I really should re-read what I type. I really want to argue back that you could be married and have kids and be gay so the questioners logic is suspect but I'm not that naive to think that isn't how some people think.
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Post by theatreian on Feb 5, 2021 23:16:14 GMT
Although things are a bit better there is still a long way to go. I guess compared to where we were back in the 60's/ 70's we have come a long way, but that sort of inbuilt prejudice does not go away overnight. There is so much more awareness now though of the issues and at least they are spoken about more openly.
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Post by theatreian on Feb 13, 2021 23:00:57 GMT
Just in case anyone hasn't seen it: Love, Simon is on Film 4 tomorrow night at 9pm. Saw it for the 1st time tonight and really enjoyed it. Watch it if you can it's on the coming out theme. tv24.co.uk/b/qojec0-gl2
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