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Post by sf on Jul 2, 2020 10:27:39 GMT
The government's very, very cynical messaging is working, then. If only they'd put as much effort and thought into keeping people safe and protecting vulnerable sectors of the economy as they have into making sure THEY don't get the blame.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 2, 2020 11:02:10 GMT
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Post by lynette on Jul 2, 2020 11:34:03 GMT
The government's very, very cynical messaging is working, then. If only they'd put as much effort and thought into keeping people safe and protecting vulnerable sectors of the economy as they have into making sure THEY don't get the blame.
I can see your point re care homes and provision of testing and equipment in the early stages but i can’t say that I am surprised if people think it is the public’s fault if cases do not fall. ‘Other ‘ people of course. Not me, not you! That is the problem. Social distancing is non existent in some places, mainly street corners. Even among the highly educated whom I sometimes find myself associating with, there is a combination of myth and ‘I’m doing the right thing for me’ ness.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 2, 2020 12:03:25 GMT
Labour have always supported the opening of schools. The critical word is ‘safe’ and nothing has changed, primarily it was the heads and teaching staff who were uncomfortable with the initial plans for the 1st Jun and most teachers are union members it was easier to malign the Unions. Now the Government have to prove the measures introduced have significantly reduced the risks as much as possible as zero risk is unattainable.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 2, 2020 12:15:21 GMT
Labour have always supported the opening of schools. The critical word is ‘safe’ and nothing has changed, primarily it was the heads teaching staff who were uncomfortable with the initial plans for the 1st Jun and most teachers are union members it was easier to malign the Unions. Now the Government have to prove the measures introduced have significantly reduced the risks as much as possible as zero risk is unattainable. Through now teaching unions are still much more skeptical than Labour.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 2, 2020 12:32:45 GMT
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 2, 2020 12:42:18 GMT
Hopefully the Government will publish the risk assessments outlining the perceived risks and how the mitigations being introduced have removed or at least minimised the risks identified so that the teaching staff and parents truly understand the risks and the measures implemented to give them the confidence to go back in September.
This was the biggest issue with the 1st Jun proposals, they were being imposed with little or no consultation and the buy in of the impacted teaching staff and parents.
By definition Unions will protect the safety of their members and as the Education Minister himself dropped the plan to get all Primary Schools back before the end of term safely the staff and parents were right to be sceptical of the original plans.
One thing this Government is especially good at is deflecting their poor decisions and poorly planned measures and soon we will be praising them for only 65,000 deaths and that they limited job losses to only millions.
A Government is there to Govern, by abdicating responsibility for their failed policies to the electorate they have failed in their only purpose which is their ability to GOVERN.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 2, 2020 13:15:33 GMT
Labour have always supported the opening of schools. The critical word is ‘safe’ and nothing has changed, primarily it was the heads teaching staff who were uncomfortable with the initial plans for the 1st Jun and most teachers are union members it was easier to malign the Unions. Now the Government have to prove the measures introduced have significantly reduced the risks as much as possible as zero risk is unattainable. Through now teaching unions are still much more skeptical than Labour. Surely that is.... Starmer has always supported the opening of schools. Now his shadow education secretary does also
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Post by theatreian on Jul 2, 2020 13:28:29 GMT
As far as government and individual responsibility goes there has to be some of both. I was talking to someone today and they said they had been on a bus and a lot had got on not wearing face coverings. Someone complained to the bus driver who said I am here to drive the bus, not challenge people. Government can make rules but sometimes they are difficult to police. Unfortunately we live in a society where people will not challenge others for fear of reprisal. You only have to look at the news to see why. I certainly would not challenge anyone for not wearing a mask. It is individuals who choose to ignore social distancing , not wear face coverings etc. I can understand these poll results to some extent as the government cannot police every individuals behaviour.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 2, 2020 14:10:48 GMT
The Government sets the expectations and their adherence to their own rules and the mixed messaging does not set a high bar for the rest of us.
Even the HMRC in a now deleted Tweet did not engender a careful and cautious expectation when we visit the pub this weekend and the PM’s father breaking the wishes of the Greek Government foe essential visits only today is no better than our friend Cummings visit to Barnard Castle.
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Post by sf on Jul 2, 2020 15:30:40 GMT
It is individuals who choose to ignore social distancing , not wear face coverings etc. I can understand these poll results to some extent as the government cannot police every individuals behaviour. The government could send a much clearer message about the measures we should all be taking to help keep everybody safe, and could work much harder than they have done to make sure rules are enforced. Other governments have done, and their per capita death tolls are lower than ours.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 2, 2020 16:45:36 GMT
It is individuals who choose to ignore social distancing , not wear face coverings etc. I can understand these poll results to some extent as the government cannot police every individuals behaviour. The government could send a much clearer message about the measures we should all be taking to help keep everybody safe, and could work much harder than they have done to make sure rules are enforced. Other governments have done, and their per capita death tolls are lower than ours. That added to the timing of going into lock down and some very poor planning. Would have been able to open some things more safely
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 2, 2020 21:32:45 GMT
As far as government and individual responsibility goes there has to be some of both. I was talking to someone today and they said they had been on a bus and a lot had got on not wearing face coverings. Someone complained to the bus driver who said I am here to drive the bus, not challenge people. Government can make rules but sometimes they are difficult to police. Unfortunately we live in a society where people will not challenge others for fear of reprisal. You only have to look at the news to see why. I certainly would not challenge anyone for not wearing a mask. It is individuals who choose to ignore social distancing , not wear face coverings etc. I can understand these poll results to some extent as the government cannot police every individuals behaviour. Bus drivers have been told not to challenge non-compliant passengers. No point in making laws, if you aren’t going to police them. It needs the police to go and fine the perpetrators. Same with cycling and electric scooters on pavements, which is very topical at the moment - people ride these on the pavement, so they can listen to music via their headphones and in some cases on their phones. It is illegal to ride on the pavement. Both masks and scooters/cycles should be hit with fines, as both are dangerous and a threat to other people.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 3, 2020 9:41:12 GMT
The Police are doing a good job at Tube and Train stations but not sure there is any-more resources to cover buses - maybe an officer at bus stations and the busiest stops.
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Post by londonpostie on Jul 3, 2020 9:41:24 GMT
My local hopper bus has less than 50% compliance. Police have better things to do than ride on every bus. People gave up after Cummings. The news Johnson' father has disappeared to Greece just adds to the farce.
I mentioned a couple of times on here last month and before; the time to feel more comfortable is when you see Boris Johnson's father in an English pub, and now they are about to open again he has flown to Greece.
As ever; watch what they do not what they say.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 3, 2020 9:45:23 GMT
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 3, 2020 9:47:06 GMT
He also looks pretty scary without a mask
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 3, 2020 10:35:25 GMT
He also looks pretty scary without a mask He might want to give a direct order to that effect on national television then.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 3, 2020 12:17:00 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 3, 2020 12:30:28 GMT
Any news of yesterdays numbers that weren't announced yet?
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 3, 2020 12:35:47 GMT
Sadly, people will be queuing for this.
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Post by Deal J on Jul 3, 2020 12:43:59 GMT
6am!? Thank goodness Mr Johnson has urged everyone to be sensible, otherwise there'd be mayhem! Sigh.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 3, 2020 12:56:44 GMT
Opening the pubs on a Saturday was a not a sensible decision. Happy to be proved wrong though
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 3, 2020 13:14:03 GMT
It’s like when you go through airport departures and people are having pints of lager with their full English at 6.30am 😝
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 3, 2020 13:24:42 GMT
It’s like when you go through airport departures and people are having pints of lager with their full English at 6.30am 😝 Must be a Manchester thing BB, never seen that at JLA
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Post by Deal J on Jul 3, 2020 13:33:55 GMT
It’s like when you go through airport departures and people are having pints of lager with their full English at 6.30am 😝 Yes, when everyone knows vodka is a morning beverage. In all honesty, I have to confess I am amongst those who kid themselves that airports have their own time zones, and so anything goes (within reason and with moderation)!
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Post by basdfg on Jul 3, 2020 14:24:59 GMT
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Post by meister on Jul 3, 2020 14:58:49 GMT
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jul 3, 2020 15:07:35 GMT
Labour have always supported the opening of schools. The critical word is ‘safe’ and nothing has changed, primarily it was the heads teaching staff who were uncomfortable with the initial plans for the 1st Jun and most teachers are union members it was easier to malign the Unions. Now the Government have to prove the measures introduced have significantly reduced the risks as much as possible as zero risk is unattainable. Through now teaching unions are still much more skeptical than Labour. Parents. Parents are sceptical. It’s all about parents. Government will try and say it is about unions but only the gullible will fall for it.
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 3, 2020 15:50:49 GMT
6am!? Thank goodness Mr Johnson has urged everyone to be sensible, otherwise there'd be mayhem! Sigh. Seems like a good time to me. It reduces the number of people who want to be there when they open. And being realistic about it most places will open at their usual time anyway, and I know some are planning to wait until Monday because they want to start on a quiet day in order to get back into the routine of things gradually. I see there are some hairdressers who are going to be opening at 00:01. I've never understood the point of that sort of thing, like when a new book or game in a popular series comes out and some shops start selling it at midnight and there are always queues of people who just must have it as soon as it's available instead of waiting until a sane time. You've waited this long; a few more hours won't make that much of a difference.
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