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Post by sf on May 27, 2020 20:31:47 GMT
Numbers of deaths are up over 400 again for yesterday I have just read. The figures for the first day after the weekend are always high because reports get delayed over the weekend. It was 627 deaths at the start of the week a fortnight ago and 545 a week ago. But 412 is still, in normal circumstances, a horrifying number. It's high enough that it seems reckless in the extreme for the government to be contemplating allowing shops etc to reopen less than three weeks from now. Or to give the numbers some context - in February I flew from Tokyo to Frankfurt on a plane that seats 195, and then from Frankfurt to Heathrow on a plane that seats 144. 412 casualties equals both planes down plus a double decker bus full of additional casualties. It's 66 more than the number of deaths that led to the indefinite grounding of the 737-MAX. The total death toll in terms of confirmed cases is larger by about 5,000 than the population of the town I live in. The number of excess deaths is pushing double the population of the town I live in. We're past the first peak but a second one is by no means impossible. It is very dangerous to be too matter-of-fact about these numbers. And the tragedy here, on top of the ongoing tragedy that is a rising death toll so large that in terms of confirmed cases alone it's the equivalent of wiping somewhere like Bury St. Edmunds or Windsor or Leighton Buzzard completely off the map, is that this ongoing row dilutes public health messaging. We have a government that for the last four days - in the middle of a pandemic - hasn't even managed to report the number of covid-19 tests it has carried out. Cummings should have been sacked on Saturday, Johnson is terrifyingly incompetent, but the ongoing row pulls focus away from the horrifying consequences of this government's casual disregard for the safety of the electorate. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 27, 2020 20:36:37 GMT
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Post by xanady on May 27, 2020 21:30:48 GMT
Hospital on the coast at Weston-Super-Mare has had a worrying spike in Covid admissions and is not admitting other patients.
Is this as a result of lockdown loosening and everybody dashing lemming-like to the beaches and possibly taking the virus with them?
If so this is what could happen if people don’t social distance properly.
Kim McGuiness who is a police commissioner saying on Newsnight that police officers are telling her that the mood of the public has palpably changed regarding lockdown since the DC farce...wow!
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Post by intoanewlife on May 27, 2020 22:17:03 GMT
If Cummings isn’t gone by the weekend it’ll all be forgotten next week and Britain’s slide into the absolute chaos of Trumps America will be complete.
Get ready because this is just the start.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 22:33:56 GMT
But 412 is still, in normal circumstances, a horrifying number. It's high enough that it seems reckless in the extreme for the government to be contemplating allowing shops etc to reopen less than three weeks from now. Or to give the numbers some context - in February I flew from Tokyo to Frankfurt on a plane that seats 195, and then from Frankfurt to Heathrow on a plane that seats 144. 412 casualties equals both planes down plus a double decker bus full of additional casualties. It's 66 more than the number of deaths that led to the indefinite grounding of the 737-MAX. And how many people died of cancer in this country yesterday? Or had a stroke? It's equally dangerous to act as if the number of coronavirus deaths is the only thing that matters in the world at the minute. It isn't. Having some perspective includes recognising that the single minded focus on COVID-19 is also dangerous, and resources need to be diverted back to dealing with other serious issues. And sooner or later that goes beyond pure current health concerns to looking at the wider and longer term impact of sustained narrow focus of resources and ignorance or postponement of dealing with so many other pressing problems. |
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Post by sf on May 27, 2020 23:23:38 GMT
It's equally dangerous to act as if the number of coronavirus deaths is the only thing that matters in the world at the minute. It isn't. Good thing that isn't what I was doing, then, isn't it? I was pointing out that it's far too easy right now to become blasé about numbers that under normal circumstances we would find absolutely horrifying, and further pointing out that the fact that Dominic Cummings is (still) dominating the news means less attention is being paid to other things. |
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Post by theatremadness on May 27, 2020 23:33:07 GMT
Replacing a news presenter for telling the truth. Democracy is slipping away from us at an alarming rate.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 3:50:45 GMT
The figures for the first day after the weekend are always high because reports get delayed over the weekend. It was 627 deaths at the start of the week a fortnight ago and 545 a week ago. But 412 is still, in normal circumstances, a horrifying number. It's high enough that it seems reckless in the extreme for the government to be contemplating allowing shops etc to reopen less than three weeks from now. Yes, it's a horrifying number, but in the context of what has happened before it's a definite improvement as part of a downward trend, and in context of the post I was quoting it's clear that I was pointing out that using a number in isolation as if to suggest we're all doomed is extremely misleading. If things continue this way then by the middle of June we'll have around 150 deaths a day: still high — around the same as the number killed on the roads each month — but at a point where we don't need a full lockdown to keep the reproduction rate below 1. |
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Post by londonpostie on May 28, 2020 6:35:20 GMT
Replacing a news presenter for telling the truth. Democracy is slipping away from us at an alarming rate. If you're referring to Matlis on Newsnight, she wasn't ever scheduled to present last night. At least according to the scheduled presenter on Twitter @katierazz
The most interesting thing about that for me is that @maitlis herself chose not to correct the fake news, at least to date. Though she has been on Twitter and *liked* something else: so, effectively choosing to feed the fake news bots.
If you are relying on the BBC in general and Newsnight in particular for integrity, good luck.
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Post by kathryn on May 28, 2020 6:53:50 GMT
Made me curious enough to Google - 2019 figures say on average 450 people died a day from cancer, which was the leading cause of death.
So we are only *just* getting Covid-19 deaths down to the level of all cancers. And cancer doesn’t have an exponential growth curve to worry about.
Lest we forget, that is why we went into lockdown - the risk that the peak we experienced of 1000 deaths a day would then become a peak of 2000, then 4000, then 8000, etc, if left unchecked.
It’s not like we get to choose between Covid-19 and cancer - we have to deal with both at the same time.
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Post by talkingheads on May 28, 2020 7:02:49 GMT
Replacing a news presenter for telling the truth. Democracy is slipping away from us at an alarming rate. If you're referring to Matlis on Newsnight, she wasn't ever scheduled to present last night. At least according to the scheduled presenter on Twitter @katierazz
The most interesting thing about that for me is that @maitlis herself chose not to correct the fake news, at least to date. Though she has been on Twitter and *liked* something else: so, effectively choosing to feed the fake news bots.
If you are relying on the BBC in general and Newsnight in particular for integrity, good luck.
She said on air she'd "be back tomorrow" |
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Post by londonpostie on May 28, 2020 7:36:50 GMT
Indeed, Newsnight is on Monday to Friday. Matlis is one of 4 presenters who rotate. It is not the Matlis Show, though she often tries to make it seem so.
Now continuing to enjoy her bogus martyrdom on Twitter rather than choosing to correct the misunderstanding. It's the attitude that has destroyed public confidence in the programme over recent years; she is more important than accuracy.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 8:10:46 GMT
I'm curious as to what Emily Matlis said that was "fake news"? As far as I can see, what she said was factually accurate - Cummings did break the rules, exceptional circumstances or not (and let's face it, everyone has to accept not everything he did on that trip was an exceptional circumstance)... It’s not like we get to choose between Covid-19 and cancer - we have to deal with both at the same time. We do, but we haven't been, that was really my point. If we don't get back to normal for routine treatments and early stage investigations quickly then that figure for cancer will be the one going up. Life in that respect should never have gone on hold for coronavirus. |
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Post by talkingheads on May 28, 2020 8:17:22 GMT
Isn't it nice to know that while we have the highest death rate and a hypocritical Government, Matt Hancock still finds time to go on television and laugh in our faces.
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Post by vdcni on May 28, 2020 8:26:14 GMT
Indeed, Newsnight is on Monday to Friday. Matlis is one of 4 presenters who rotate. It is not the Matlis Show, though she often tries to make it seem so.
Now continuing to enjoy her bogus martyrdom on Twitter rather than choosing to correct the misunderstanding. It's the attitude that has destroyed public confidence in the programme over recent years; she is more important than accuracy.
Except she had been scheduled to work last night and well before this post of yours had clarified that she asked to take the night off so maybe you need to look at your accuracy before accusing someone of bogus martyrdom. |
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Post by londonpostie on May 28, 2020 8:40:55 GMT
And last nghts presenter @katierazz put up this clarification, presumably becasue Matlis chose not to:
I do wonder why Matlis hasn't helped clarify given the problems it creates for the Newsnight team.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 8:58:09 GMT
According to a BBC report, quoting Maitlis, she asked for the night off.
So not a grand conspiracy to stop people ‘telling the truth’. More likely she was peeved at being reprimanded for stepping massively outwith her remit, and editorialising.
Horrendous that Razzall took a kicking for this on Twitter. The level of debate in this country is shocking.
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Post by sf on May 28, 2020 9:16:18 GMT
So not a grand conspiracy to stop people ‘telling the truth’. More likely she was peeved at being reprimanded for stepping massively outwith her remit, and editorialising. Can you point to anything she said in that opening that wasn't true? (I'll save you the trouble. No you can't.) |
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Post by vdcni on May 28, 2020 9:20:11 GMT
And last nghts presenter @katierazz put up this clarification, presumably becasue Matlis chose not to:
I do wonder why Matlis hasn't helped clarify given the problems it creates for the Newsnight team.
And again she has clarified, almost 8 hours ago. |
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Post by londonpostie on May 28, 2020 9:36:21 GMT
cross wires
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Post by zahidf on May 28, 2020 9:42:10 GMT
Grown up in the room. BJ needs to sack Cummings so we can all move on, and not sacrifice everything for the sake of one mans career
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 9:43:39 GMT
It’s not like we get to choose between Covid-19 and cancer - we have to deal with both at the same time. We do, but we haven't been, that was really my point. If we don't get back to normal for routine treatments and early stage investigations quickly then that figure for cancer will be the one going up. Life in that respect should never have gone on hold for coronavirus. The two essential differences are that cancer isn't going to spiral out of control at an exponential rate and we don't have the chance to almost completely wipe out cancer with three months of pain. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 11:04:04 GMT
We do, but we haven't been, that was really my point. If we don't get back to normal for routine treatments and early stage investigations quickly then that figure for cancer will be the one going up. Life in that respect should never have gone on hold for coronavirus. The two essential differences are that cancer isn't going to spiral out of control at an exponential rate and we don't have the chance to almost completely wipe out cancer with three months of pain. But there was never any need to postpone cancer treatments - the government simply failed to organise medical services to ensure those treatments could continue. Lives lost to cancer are no less important than those lost to coronavirus, which won't be anywhere near eradicated in a month's time. |
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Post by kathryn on May 28, 2020 11:10:29 GMT
If we don't get back to normal for routine treatments and early stage investigations quickly then that figure for cancer will be the one going up. Life in that respect should never have gone on hold for coronavirus. I’m afraid that the impact of long-term austerity policies and an obsessive drive for ‘efficiency’. With no spare capacity in the health system - indeed, a health system already over capacity - dealing with an unexpected public health crisis meant routine treatments had to be put on hold. With an infectious disease you absolutely have to deal with it as a matter of urgency. A health system with space capacity - and I’m not just talking about Nightingale hospitals being thrown together, because you can’t build an emergency doctor in a week the way you can build an emergency ward - can treat the unexpected health crisis and keep standard services going at the same time. But the government were not willing to have spare capacity in the health service because that is ‘inefficient’. |
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Post by sf on May 28, 2020 11:42:40 GMT
If we don't get back to normal for routine treatments and early stage investigations quickly then that figure for cancer will be the one going up. Life in that respect should never have gone on hold for coronavirus. I’m afraid that the impact of long-term austerity policies and an obsessive drive for ‘efficiency’. With no spare capacity in the health system - indeed, a health system already over capacity - dealing with an unexpected public health crisis meant routine treatments had to be put on hold. With an infectious disease you absolutely have to deal with it as a matter of urgency. A health system with space capacity - and I’m not just talking about Nightingale hospitals being thrown together, because you can’t build an emergency doctor in a week the way you can build an emergency ward - can treat the unexpected health crisis and keep standard services going at the same time. But the government were not willing to have spare capacity in the health service because that is ‘inefficient’.
And the reason the government is trying so strenuously to encourage us not to compare the death toll here with countries like Germany is that those countries have been able to deal with the pandemic more effectively than we have (granted, that's not a high bar) in no small part because there was more spare capacity in their healthcare systems to begin with. We're reaping the benefits, so to speak, of a decade of austerity, a decade of services being pared back and back and back in the name of "efficiency" even though there wasn't any slack in the system in the first place. We are where we are because of political choices. It's all very heartwarming asking the public to clap for NHS workers every Thursday night, but it might be more constructive if our politicians - on both sides of the house - engaged in an honest conversation about what comprehensive healthcare costs and how we're going to pay for it. For too long, our politicians have promised us Scandinavian public services with American levels of taxation. We can't have both, we have to choose, and the disastrous consequences of this pandemic suggest rather strongly that so far we've chosen very badly.
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