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Post by HereForTheatre on Jun 16, 2020 8:19:13 GMT
I think I should just point out that Oliver Dowden doesn’t hold the purse strings, it the Chancellor. From a source involved in some of the conversations my understanding is that now that Dowden understands the intricacies of how the theatre industry actually works (after sitting down with Sonia Friedman, amongst others) he has done quite well at making the case to the Chancellor. As he mentioned in the Standard a deal is in the pipeline. However my source implies they are waiting till the review in early July on possibly when theatres may reopen, so that the exact size and period that a support package is in place can be agreed. There is also conversations going on about other industries that will be slow to reopen for example nightclubs and how a package could be all encompassing. My worry about any scheme is will the money trickle out to all the subcontractors that support theatre industries. It will be all well and good if the buildings and production companies survive, but if there are no scenic workshops, lighting and sound hire or theatrical marketing agencies left, getting a show open is going to be tricky. It also seems to me that one of the trickiest issues to overcome is if the government chose to extend the income support schemes for theatre freelancers, how do they identify who actually works in the theatre industry? I was going to say the same thing. I would also maybe point out he's the got the culture, media and sport brief, he's not a Theatre minister, his job covers every aspect of all those industries. There's no use people getting miffed every time he's talking or dealing with something other than Theatre as if that should be his only focus. That said, there is no reason why he can't be talking more about it. One interview on the subject seems a little weak.
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 16, 2020 8:51:30 GMT
Cineworld is reopening on July 10th. No idea what they'll be showing.
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Post by maggiem on Jun 16, 2020 9:05:58 GMT
YES! I wonder what they will be able to show? Without some of the Summer blockbusters we might get films that you wouldn't otherwise see at a multiplex.
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Post by poster J on Jun 16, 2020 9:21:26 GMT
Everyone speaks about how necessary social distancing is and 20% capacity etc etc. Why is that not required on air-planes which can still go at 100% capacity with everyone wearing a mask> Is it not because the air filtration on planes is more sophisticated than ordinary air con? Frankly since lockdown I've felt safer in an airport and on a plane than just about anywhere else, certainly far safer than in any shop!
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jun 16, 2020 9:34:24 GMT
Good news about Cinemas but they are a lot easier to operate, financially as well, under these limitations than theatre, so it remains to be seen if anything will be learned from them re-opening or it paves the way for theatres. I doubt it.
What i do hope though is that theatre and the cinema companies work together to programme theatre productions on the big screen because there is no doubt that it would be a better experience watching a musical or play at the cinema, on the big screen, with others around you, than on a laptop or tv screen. At least it's kinda half way there.
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Post by vdcni on Jun 16, 2020 9:54:27 GMT
Clearly Oliver Dowden has lots of things on his plate at the moment, which is exactly why he shouldn't be pissing about with Google over something they had already explained and is utterly unimportant just so he can tweet about it and appeal to a lot of gullible idiots who will believe any old conspiracy theory.
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Post by zahidf on Jun 16, 2020 9:59:15 GMT
Good news about Cinemas but they are a lot easier to operate, financially as well, under these limitations than theatre, so it remains to be seen if anything will be learned from them re-opening or it paves the way for theatres. I doubt it. What i do hope though is that theatre and the cinema companies work together to programme theatre productions on the big screen because there is no doubt that it would be a better experience watching a musical or play at the cinema, on the big screen, with others around you, than on a laptop or tv screen. At least it's kinda half way there. Seems to be reopening just as NT at home for free is ending...
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Post by Jon on Jun 16, 2020 10:27:42 GMT
I think after weeks of NT at Home, I think it’s only fair to have paid encores in the cinemas of things that would sell really well like Present Laughter, Fleabag, All My Sons to but a few. Would be a good revenue stopgap for many of the companies who were involved.
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Post by zahidf on Jun 16, 2020 11:19:07 GMT
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Post by theatremole on Jun 16, 2020 11:34:37 GMT
Nimax & DMT have have started redundancy consultations. It's very likely that some very big shows will be posting notices.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 16, 2020 11:42:08 GMT
I think after weeks of NT at Home, I think it’s only fair to have paid encores in the cinemas of things that would sell really well like Present Laughter, Fleabag, All My Sons to but a few. Would be a good revenue stopgap for many of the companies who were involved. The NT lives we've been to at cinemas around my home town have had generally much older than average audiences. With coronavirus still circulating and a second spike looming, I can't see most of them flocking back for something like this, especially not when it seems theatres are now more open to the possibilities of home streaming back catalogues and new work. Even if they're fit-and-healthy older people, many have friends who are in high risk groups or have actually died so are more aware of the very real threat posed than younger people, who think they're immortal.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 16, 2020 17:38:56 GMT
Btw in the last couple of days I've seen a few cast announcements for movies/TV filming (they hope) later this year.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 17:58:31 GMT
Everyone speaks about how necessary social distancing is and 20% capacity etc etc. Why is that not required on air-planes which can still go at 100% capacity with everyone wearing a mask> It is a bit confusing - I don't think social distancing is actually law though (someone correct me if wrong). And as we know government have only advised up to 4th July.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 12:18:35 GMT
www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/les-miserables-mary-poppins-hamilton-closed-2021_51791.htmlVery sad news. Is this in a way Cam Mac throwing down the gauntlet to the government to finally do something to talk him out of doing this? Or is he committed to doing this now? (Off topic, but he has always seemed to control more day to day operations of Phantom than RUG/ALW. It is an LW theatre though so you’d have thought ALW would want a say in this. ALW has been massively more positive and taken a “wait and see” approach throughout, compared to CM’s predictions long into the future).
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Post by sleepflower on Jun 17, 2020 12:27:18 GMT
Isn't CM a billionaire? Leaves a sour taste in the mouth...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 12:30:08 GMT
Also - this should totally be in the mainstream news on TV.
If I hear one more thing about football lol!
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 12:53:35 GMT
Isn't CM a billionaire? Leaves a sour taste in the mouth... He had a net worth of 1.1 billion. People really don’t understand what ‘net worth’ means. It’s the value of all of his businesses and assets, after running costs and minus the debt secured on it. It doesn’t mean he has a billion in the bank as cash. So no, while his businesses cannot operate - are literally making a net loss - he’s not a billionaire. The value of the theatre business at the moment is a negative against his personal wealth and assets. Typically the only way anyone realises their net worth in cash is if they sell up completely and retire. Or die, and have all their assets sold. No-one is going to buy a theatre business at the moment.
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Post by Mark on Jun 17, 2020 13:40:54 GMT
He's also not a charity. Difficult decisions now to protect the long term viability of his business.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 14:03:47 GMT
Yeah. People have this knee-jerk reaction that owners of a business should personally bail it out, but it’s financially illiterate. In most cases they can’t - hardly anyone has enough personal wealth to keep a loss-making business afloat for any length of time. And even if they could, why would they? They will end up with no money and a valueless business that will fail anyway. May as well pull the plug now and save your money to invest in a business that is viable.
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Post by hannechalk on Jun 17, 2020 14:07:32 GMT
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Post by duncan on Jun 17, 2020 14:08:43 GMT
Isn't CM a billionaire? Leaves a sour taste in the mouth... He had a net worth of 1.1 billion. People really don’t understand what ‘net worth’ means. It’s the value of all of his businesses and assets, after running costs and minus the debt secured on it. It doesn’t mean he has a billion in the bank as cash. So no, while his businesses cannot operate - are literally making a net loss - he’s not a billionaire. The value of the theatre business at the moment is a negative against his personal wealth and assets. Typically the only way anyone realises their net worth in cash is if they sell up completely and retire. Or die, and have all their assets sold. No-one is going to buy a theatre business at the moment. At last someone else who gets it. When people say the likes of CM, Branson, Musk, Bezos are minted beyond belief you have to remember its not cash in hand its the sum of their assets such as buildings or shareholdings. And those sums are to me always inflated because as noted they'd have to liquidate everything to get that money. Look at Wrestling guru Vince McMahon, he's estimated to have lost $500 million dollars worth of wealth against his shareholding in WWE since the turn of the year and this caused him to liquidate the American Football league he had, once the share price dropped his "wealth" also drops and he didn't have the liquidity to continue to fund the league or be able to borrow the money at reasonable terms to continue funding his vanity project. CM may have been a billionaire in January but right now he owns a whole load of buildings which were positive assets but which are now essentially worthless and whilst they remain on his books he'll have to be shelling out for upkeep etc. The only way CM makes money at the moment is to sell all his theatres for housing and none of us want that. Yes its terrible news for everyone involved but CM needs to ensure he's actually in a position to be able to restart these productions as soon as possible rather than go into debt, administration or liquidation. If CM were to go into debt you'd be looking at him doing a Kenwright on everything.
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Post by viserys on Jun 17, 2020 14:32:10 GMT
It's very tragic from where I sit - on the continent, where theatres plan to re-open from late August/early September without any social distancing. I know the UK is still lagging behind a few weeks, but surely it's an incredibly drastic step to decide NOW to not open until 2021. Sounds to me like it's more of a desperate plea to shake politics up.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 14:35:09 GMT
It’s why you’re always ‘worth’ more dead than alive.
The likes of a Michael Jackson was in crippling debt towards the end of his life, but as soon as he died and the value of his assets could be realised the debts were paid off, and his estate started generating income without the cost of supporting his lifestyle - it’s now incredibly valuable.
Net worth is only really useful for someone who is working out whether to lend you money and what interest rate to charge you. The more you are worth the more sure they are that they’ll get their money back if something disastrous happens. There’s a reason why Cam Mac doesn’t want to load his business down with debt - lots of businesses end up going under because their creditors get worried, and force a sale of assets to get their money back. If all the creditors do that at once and you can’t pay them all back then you’re bankrupt.
I hope this is part of a political push on the government.
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Post by Mark on Jun 17, 2020 14:45:47 GMT
It's very tragic from where I sit - on the continent, where theatres plan to re-open from late August/early September without any social distancing. I know the UK is still lagging behind a few weeks, but surely it's an incredibly drastic step to decide NOW to not open until 2021. Sounds to me like it's more of a desperate plea to shake politics up. Hope it is! I don’t see any reason if the virus is under control by then it shouldn’t be possible. Again, it was about getting to a sustainable level, not eradicating it.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 17, 2020 15:28:34 GMT
It's the mix of 'show' and 'business' again. Audiences focus on the former but even subsidised theatres (because they are answerable to government) have to prioritise the latter. Just because a part of the audience wants to go into a theatre now it doesn't mean that it can happen. On running costs alone it isn't viable (didn't Sonia Friedman suggest she needs 75% houses now?) and that's before you even start thinking about the safety aspect.
Theatre will return with something that is economically viable, for CM his shows won't be able to plan for that for a very long time. The more adaptable the space, the better. Maybe the Barbican could adapt some of the larger open areas or use the outdoors areas. Somewhere like the BAC could move things into the Great Hall which is massive compared to the shows they often have but it's their and they can spread the audience far and wide. Victoria Palace? It's only good for being what it currently is, and that's not enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 15:40:55 GMT
Sad times but completely expected. I think the obvious long runners will come back but I do wonder if anything will take advantage and just bow out, never to return - maybe something like The Mousetrap?
I sense a lot of fundraisers once the theatres reopen, with the big names wheeled out to sell tickets. Ian McKellen, for example, bringing his one man show back. I dare say it would be relatively easy (and quick) to put on a few Shakespeare plays too - most of the usual suspects already know the parts anyway and I assume an easy way of putting people back to work (and making some money).
I’m trying to think if there’s any recent big sellout plays that could be revived quickly too for quick cash injections, but I’m coming up a bit blank. Because the NT are probably best placed to do something like this.
A silver lining on all this could be that a lot of big names could find themselves free in 2021 and happy to lend a hand getting the industry back on its feet (and it’s names that will get bums on seats). A short 12 week run (with maybe 4 weeks rehearsal) isn’t a huge commitment and I dare say there’ll be more than a few household names with such windows of availability.... but of course you can’t plan anything until the government remembers the arts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 15:49:27 GMT
Yeah. People have this knee-jerk reaction that owners of a business should personally bail it out, but it’s financially illiterate. In moste cases they can’t - hardly anyone has enough personal wealth to keep a loss-making business afloat for any length of time. And even if they could, why would they? They will end up with no money and a valueless business that will fail anyway. May as well pull the plug now and save your money to invest in a business that is viable. Well said - the kneejerk reaction from people towards 'millionaires' and 'billionaires' shows literally no understanding at all of how businesses work and the difference between personal wealth and that related to business. These people aren't there to pointlessly throw good money after bad. And what they do with their personal money is no more our business than it is to judge how much money other board members spend on theatre. Cameron's recent negativity has annoyed me but he and ALW have brought more pleasure to millions over the years as well as employment to thousands, and the UK theatre scene would have been an overwhelmingly poorer place without them. He is a massive asset to UK theatre and is trying to protect it for the future.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 15:53:19 GMT
It's very tragic from where I sit - on the continent, where theatres plan to re-open from late August/early September without any social distancing. I know the UK is still lagging behind a few weeks, but surely it's an incredibly drastic step to decide NOW to not open until 2021. Sounds to me like it's more of a desperate plea to shake politics up. Yeah - and that is what I wondered. Cam Mac can be slightly diva ish sometimes - does he REALLY think he'll be closed until 2021 or is it a last ditch attempt to get the government to sit up and notice (which would be great if it paid off!) 2021 is such a long way off. How on earth can we know now how things will be in the Autumn!
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Post by Jon on Jun 17, 2020 15:59:57 GMT
Sad times but completely expected. I think the obvious long runners will come back but I do wonder if anything will take advantage and just bow out, never to return - maybe something like The Mousetrap? I sense a lot of fundraisers once the theatres reopen, with the big names wheeled out to sell tickets. Ian McKellen, for example, bringing his one man show back. I dare say it would be relatively easy (and quick) to put on a few Shakespeare plays too - most of the usual suspects already know the parts anyway and I assume an easy way of putting people back to work (and making some money). I’m trying to think if there’s any recent big sellout plays that could be revived quickly too for quick cash injections, but I’m coming up a bit blank. Because the NT are probably best placed to do something like this. A silver lining on all this could be that a lot of big names could find themselves free in 2021 and happy to lend a hand getting the industry back on its feet (and it’s names that will get bums on seats). A short 12 week run (with maybe 4 weeks rehearsal) isn’t a huge commitment and I dare say there’ll be more than a few household names with such windows of availability.... but of course you can’t plan anything until the government remembers the arts. I think To Kill A Mockingbird will be a huge hit and I believe it was selling really well before the pandemic hit. Sonia Friedman is planning to bring back Jerusalem which if Mark Rylance decides to reprise the role of Rooster could also be a success.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 16:02:43 GMT
Well said - the kneejerk reaction from people towards 'millionaires' and 'billionaires' shows literally no undertaking at all of how businesses work and the difference between personal wealth and that related to business. These people aren't there to pointlessly throw good money after bad. It's pure envy. It makes about as much sense as complaining that someone who has been furloughed is treating it as a 'free holiday', because you've continued to work. What else are they meant to do?!
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