|
Post by danb on Dec 19, 2019 21:33:15 GMT
While the world continues to rip ‘Cats’ a new one, I thought I’d report back on the overwhelming average-ness of this supposed grand finale. Perfectly watchable and only drags a little but my goodness it’s ordinary. The best thing about it is how seamlessly the existing footage of Carrie Fisher has been integrated. There is one dreadful cgi bit like in ‘Rogue One’ but otherwise it is good. Arcs are completed, souls redeemed, but it is contrived beyond belief. Three stars at the very best.
|
|
7,192 posts
|
Post by Jon on Dec 19, 2019 21:59:15 GMT
The backlash against The Last Jedi meant Disney and JJ Abrams decided to play it very safe.
|
|
|
Post by justfran on Dec 19, 2019 22:02:37 GMT
I saw this today and really enjoyed it. For a series that started 42 years ago and has a lot of super fans, it was never going to please everyone. Put me in the happy camp though as I loved it. It didn’t feel like the running time dragged at all. There were some nice nods to the original films and the droids were great as always. Left the cinema with a smile on my face and as an added bonus the audience were great - all quiet, no disruptions, only thing slightly ruining it was the ridiculous temperature in the screen which felt like a sauna at times!
|
|
|
Post by danb on Dec 19, 2019 22:05:14 GMT
TLJ was at least interesting, surprising and different. Any surprises in this are just finger in the air ‘what can we do here?’ rubbish.
|
|
2,264 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by richey on Dec 19, 2019 22:11:47 GMT
I saw the midnight screening last night and really enjoyed it. Yes the first third crams in a lot of action, it's like Abrams is showing what he would have done had he done episode 8, but once that's out of the way it's non stop action. I've been a lifelong fan, saw the original in 1977 as a seven year and this was a worthy end to the saga in my view.
|
|
2,061 posts
|
Post by Marwood on Dec 19, 2019 22:12:56 GMT
I agree, I was getting bored after 20 minutes or so (and it seemed to go on FOREVER)- everything but the kitchen sink was thrown in but there was no real plot, proper surprises or any real sense of excitement. Growing up I liked the Star Wars films up to and including Revenge Of The Sith but was never that excited about them to buy the hordes of memorabilia/tat or (heaven forbid) dress up like one of the characters. The two erm, fanboys sat next to me were high fiving each other at the appearance of minor characters not seen for decades, and crying at moments that I honestly felt fell flat, but to be honest I think that really this should be the end of it and Disney call it a day on making any more Star Wars films (fat chance of that, I know)I gave it 6 out of 10 on IMDB and that was being generous.
|
|
4,806 posts
|
Post by Mark on Dec 19, 2019 22:17:14 GMT
I've never seen a Star Wars movie (I know.. I know), but was always a fan of the Star Tours ride at Disney. I went to the new Star Wars land last week in California and was a bit clueless about it all, so I've made it my mission to watch all of the movies now that they're all released.
|
|
873 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Dec 19, 2019 22:50:46 GMT
Having loved TLJ for basically being a terrible sequel and making decisions seemingly in spite of its (very boring and safe) predecessor I'm not very excited for this being back in Abrams' hands. And having read some spoilers (I'd been avoiding them until I lost all interest) some of the choices are baffling and sound exactly like the sort of nostalgic rubbish I'd wanted to avoid. Maybe the whole thing works better on screen than on paper but considering the mediocre reception it doesn't sound like it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 23:01:50 GMT
As a film it’s enjoyable, but as the end to a saga that spans 9 main films and a whole load of interconnecting materials? It fails... but only just. They tried to fit too much in and introduced too many new elements that make it feel formed for my liking. If Palpatine has been behind all of this then why on Earth is this the first we are hearing about it? Surely if the plan all along was for him to be behind it all, why not reveal it at the end of Episode VIII after Snoke died?
Then for Rey to be his granddaughter? Not beyond the realms of possibility but how contrived. They really ruined her arc in my opinion, because by the end who actually cares who she is? Then she goes and makes herself a Skywalker for no apparent reason imo.
So they decide to kill off Luke and have Leia train Rey, because Leia is now suddenly a Jedi too, having been trained by Luke at some point during Episode VI and VII. You’d think they might have mentioned this at some point, considering she survived freezing to death when she was drifting around in space in Episode VIII.
They also ruined Ben Solo’s story arc too. It should have focused more on his redemption and return to the light, but his motives for switching were so tepid I just didn’t care. Then he gives his life to Rey so she can live and he can die, staying alive long enough for a kiss? Yawn.
Speaking of kissing and yawning, what was going on with Finn? His entire plot seemed to be which of the three girls he would end up with, then he ends up with no one! You know, despite the fact he clearly has the most chemistry with Poe. But rather than go down that road, we have Poe asking to kiss a girl this time too. Yawn. Although I did spot a same sex kiss at the end but just not the most obvious one of the entire three movies.
We had a fake Chewie death. We had a fake C3PO death (via reset), then a fake Ben death and then a fake Rey death. A bit much for one movie. Then we had Ben dreaming a redemption conversation with Han Solo that is probably a nice surprise for everyone, but makes zero sense. Sadly I saw that Harrison Ford had turned up to the premiere and that sort of gave the game away for me - he was never going to just turn up if he wasn’t in it.
I admit I expected to see Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin turn up. When Rey was fighting Palpatine and says she has all the Jedi supporting her, I expected to see them all stood behind her (including Samuel L Jackson and Liam Neeson). I think that would have scared Palpatine more than Rey grabbing a second light saber! Okay that’s all quite negative of me, but I really did enjoy it. There is a lot of great sequences and some fun one liners (especially 3PO) and really touching to see them work around existing Carrie Fisher footage to make it work. There’s a great little character introduced in the middle that I really enjoyed too. However I do think this instalment is more centred around a Disney cash-in, rather than coming to a satisfying story conclusion. As a whole trilogy, I do look at it and wonder what the point was because it adds very little to the core storyline of the original trilogy and doesn’t take the audience anywhere new. Sadly.
|
|
5,062 posts
|
Post by Phantom of London on Dec 19, 2019 23:08:24 GMT
I've never seen a Star Wars movie (I know.. I know), but was always a fan of the Star Tours ride at Disney. I went to the new Star Wars land last week in California and was a bit clueless about it all, so I've made it my mission to watch all of the movies now that they're all released. I adore Star Wars. But a great thing about being innocent like Mark, you can watch them in the proper linear sequence, which is a awesome thing to do. BTW. I generally hate sci-fi.
|
|
|
Post by Nicholas on Dec 19, 2019 23:19:03 GMT
SPOILERS
Glad the blood relatives get a heartfelt, triumphant, full-frontal snog, but the gays get two seconds in the background. Priorities, Disney. Priorities.
So, the villain of the piece is an alt-right entitled manchild obsessed with a better darker past, who needs someone to hold his hand and explain it all to him. Turns out that's not the villain of the film - that's its target audience.
At least the prequels tried to do something new.
Oh, and also, you know how TLJ showed that the Force isn't just dynasties and even a scavenger like Rey can use it? What a fantastic follow-through. And, um, that force-using child slave at the end of TLJ? He's, um, still in child slavery, right?
|
|
4,806 posts
|
Post by Mark on Dec 19, 2019 23:30:08 GMT
I've never seen a Star Wars movie (I know.. I know), but was always a fan of the Star Tours ride at Disney. I went to the new Star Wars land last week in California and was a bit clueless about it all, so I've made it my mission to watch all of the movies now that they're all released. I adore Star Wars. But a great thing about being innocent like Mark, you can watch them in the proper linear sequence, which is a awesome thing to do. BTW. I generally hate sci-fi. I've been told I should watch 4/5/6 before 1/2/3. Is that right
|
|
7,192 posts
|
Post by Jon on Dec 19, 2019 23:45:19 GMT
Disney has already said there won't be another Star Wars film for a while. My guess would be a 4-5 year break then a new trilogy which alternate in December with the Avatar films, I've always wanted to see Knights of the Old Republic made as a film.
|
|
1,761 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by marob on Dec 19, 2019 23:47:51 GMT
I really enjoyed The Force Awakens but I have the same mixed feelings about this one like I did with The Last Jedi. I did like it overall but it dragged a bit to me and was more like Indiana Jones at times (a treasure hunt ending with a bit of face melting?). I thought the Leia scenes were kind of awkward, but the best that could be done really given the circumstances. I'm glad she wasn't just written out offscreen. Couldn't help wondering what it was like for Billie Lourde to film those scenes though. I loved the reveal that {Spoiler - click to view} Leia had trained as a Jedi, since I felt like that was a major missed opportunity from the end of the original trilogy. Not sure about the Emperor as the villain, but I guess it makes sense if you look at the whole thing as a family saga. It's a shame Maz and Rose are just there with nothing much to do, but I do think it's quite funny they brought Denis Lawson back for one shot of him flying an x wing, since that's pretty much all he did in the original films anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 0:22:15 GMT
I thought it dragged in places and there was so much fan service in there, desperately trying to please everyone. I might have been more involved if Daisy Ridley could manage more than 3 emotions.
|
|
5,062 posts
|
Post by Phantom of London on Dec 20, 2019 8:05:21 GMT
I adore Star Wars. But a great thing about being innocent like Mark, you can watch them in the proper linear sequence, which is a awesome thing to do. BTW. I generally hate sci-fi. I've been told I should watch 4/5/6 before 1/2/3. Is that right 4/5/6 are the best ones.
But I would watch them in sequence. see what others think?
|
|
2,340 posts
|
Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 20, 2019 8:57:54 GMT
I've been told I should watch 4/5/6 before 1/2/3. Is that right 4/5/6 are the best ones.
But I would watch them in sequence. see what others think?
I'd go for 5,4, Rogue One, 6 but I wouldn't argue too much. No preference, maybe interesting to watch 1 to 9 knowing 4-6 were done first if you haven't seen them before
|
|
|
Post by danb on Dec 20, 2019 9:16:39 GMT
I thought it dragged in places and there was so much fan service in there, desperately trying to please everyone. I might have been more involved if Daisy Ridley could manage more than 3 emotions. Three? What were you watching? 😂
|
|
|
Post by justfran on Dec 20, 2019 10:07:54 GMT
SPOILERS
Glad the blood relatives get a heartfelt, triumphant, full-frontal snog, but the gays get two seconds in the background. Priorities, Disney. Priorities.
{Spoiler - click to view} They weren't blood relatives.
|
|
227 posts
|
Post by ukpuppetboy on Dec 20, 2019 10:17:57 GMT
I've been told I should watch 4/5/6 before 1/2/3. Is that right I’d agree that you should start with A New Hope. I defy anyone to start with Phantom Menace: it’s ‘trade disputes’, Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd’s diabolical acting and still have the will power to carry on with another 8 movies after. You need the charm and innocence of the originals to see you through. (And Peter Serafinowicz’s deconstruction of the making of it helps too!) The racist tropes & stereotypes in Phantom Menace have aged appallingly (though they weren’t exactly great in 1999 either). Peter Serafinowicz Talks to Richard Herring About Ep I
|
|
|
Post by peggysue on Dec 20, 2019 10:37:48 GMT
Saw this yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it. A fitting end for a great series of films although my favourite will always be A New Hope.
|
|
|
Post by Nicholas on Dec 20, 2019 11:04:30 GMT
SPOILERS
Glad the blood relatives get a heartfelt, triumphant, full-frontal snog, but the gays get two seconds in the background. Priorities, Disney. Priorities.
{Spoiler - click to view}They weren't blood relatives.
Palpatine is Rey's mother's father, which is both a hideously creepy thing to think about, and profoundly underwhelming. The central thesis of TLJ was that the Force - a universal power that connects good and bad, life and death, and unity with nature - belongs to you and me. The thesis of this film is, NOPE! Better hope daddy comes from a good family.
Palpatine is also Vader's father. OK, yeah, this was established in a comic a couple of years ago, so mebbe you missed it, and perhaps that's contentious. I could swear there was a line in TROS, though, that mentioned Palpatine being Anakin's progenitor which would make Palpatine Kylo's mother's father's mother's father. screenrant.com/star-wars-anakin-father-emperor/2/
OK, sure, mebbe I misheard, mebbe I'm reading too much into it. Nonetheless, that'd make Palpatine Rey's grandma, and Kylo's great-grandmother. That makes Rey and Leia cousins, and Rey and Kylo are first cousins once removed, I think - or is she his aunt?
OK, mebbe it's not blood. We don't know if Palpatine got his leg over. He impregnated Schmi using Midochlorian magic, and mercifully we're spared the biology of Rey's parents. Mebbe 'blood relative' was wrong. Mebbe Kylo and Rey are 'Midocholorianal relatives'. If that's true - and Palpatine's involuntarily celibate, as all the badass villains in this trilogy seem to be (god this film's awful), it somewhat confirms the notion that he also Midochlorianilly impregnated Schmi. Not blood, Midocholrians. Is that better?
Palpatine does say "My blood flows in you" to Rey, mind, so presumably there are some of his bodily fluids involved.
I don't blame you for missing it - an incidental detail from a comic isn't anyone's priority, and the script tosses this key info off in one line. It's like the Maul reveal in Solo - confusing for people who don't know, boring for people who do.
As a Star Wars fan who so loved the fact that TLJ introduced the Force as a power that lives through people and nature, not bloodlines, the notion that Rey's only powerful because of her rich granddaddy is, well, very 21st century, and very depressing. On this, my point stands - TLJ introduces Broom Boy, a child slave who shows that even the lowliest and most downtrodden are connected to the heart of the universe. TROS says he deserves to remain in slavery and leaves him there to rot and die.
HOWEVER, on the family point, TROS is TERRIBLE at re-establishing it, but yes, Palpatine is Kylo's great-granddad and Rey's granddad. So, that kiss, between aunt and nephew, in front of his rotting corpse... Bloody hell this movie's awful.
|
|
848 posts
|
Post by duncan on Dec 20, 2019 11:22:00 GMT
"Revealed in a comic" - that maybe 1%, if that, of the people seeing the film will actually have read.
|
|
|
Post by Nicholas on Dec 20, 2019 11:41:53 GMT
"Revealed in a comic" - that maybe 1%, if that, of the people seeing the film will actually have read. Oh, unlike the cameos from Ahsoka Tano, Kanan Jarrus, Luminali Unduli, Aayla Secura and Adi Gallia, which 100% of the audience got? I'm happy not putting that in a spoiler, because even I don't know who half those people are. Unlike the point where Maul popped up in Solo and everyone in the cinema who hadn't watched a children's cartoon for six years went "huh?". However niche, if it's canon it's canon.
Plus, I might be wrong, but I'm sure there's a line in TROS where Kylo mentions his own family tree, and draws that comparison. I might have misheard, or mebbe it's phrased in a way that confirms the comic, if you know the comic. When the script comes out, we'll see, and I'll be happy to admit if I misheard.
Even if this is wrong, the gay kiss in this is an insult. There's enough Stormpilot implied to keep baiting, but nothing explicit, and the tacked on lesbian kiss with Amanda Lawrence - which, if you saw Angels, is bloody tame in comparison to her angel - is there to pretend they did their job. If they felt a gay kiss wasn't as deserving as a straight kiss, that's actually simply bad character development - it's absolutely the arc Finn and Poe were on - let alone offensive representation. If I'm at all right about the bloodline part, ew.............
And regarding family I fundamentally stand by my key criticism. This film argues that the most important parts of the world are only there if you're born into it. If your body is an ubermensch, perfect - if, like Rey in this, your family happens to be a great dynasty, hooray for nepotism. If you're the child slave from the last movie, you're dirt. This year has shaken my faith in humanity quite a lot, but I took the view that child slavery probably isn't deserved, and the joy of the universe should be shared. That's something TROS fundamentally rejects.
|
|
848 posts
|
Post by duncan on Dec 20, 2019 11:54:23 GMT
I've no idea who those people you mention are - my point was that if you needed to read a comic to understand the plot of a film then that's awful writing by the film.
Its like me needing to have read Elliot to understand CATS. Major plot points should never be in secondary media, its basic stuff.
|
|