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Post by sparky5000 on Dec 11, 2019 11:22:25 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐
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Post by Rukaya on Dec 11, 2019 12:09:56 GMT
Wow
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 12:41:35 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 The fact that the Lib Dems have gone down in the polls against a couple of leaders as divisive as Boris and JC says a lot about them. Whilst I'm not a Jo Swinson fan, I would have thought that as a successful woman under 40 she would have been an ideal alternative to woo the younger and remain voters as they would never vote for Boris and JC could be seen as too old and not someone they'd support. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 12:45:19 GMT
The odds on the Tories getting a majority and their projected seat numbers have gone down slightly and they are predicted at around 340 seats whilst Labour are up to 222 seats in ballpark predictions. If we take a reasonable margin or error then the Tories seem likely to at least get the 320 odd seats they would need to have some sort of majority when we discount the Speaker, his deputies and the Irish Republicans who don't take their seats.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 11, 2019 12:53:08 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 I don't really understand this way of thinking at all. We all know that at least 50% of what these people tout at election time will never happen, ie most of the frankly stupid special interest stuff Labour has been touting and even if they do who cares as they affect so few people anyways. Their main policies however are for the general betterment of society and will never happen under the Tories. A vote for the Lib Dems is utterly pointless, you may as well vote for the Tories. If the Tories win there are going to be some very very dark times ahead for a hell of a lot of people. The fact no one seems to have noticed what has happened in the US over the past 3 years is very frightening to me, because that is exactly where we are heading. Frankly we are already part way there. |
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Post by vdcni on Dec 11, 2019 13:29:21 GMT
Depends on the constituency whether it is worth voting Lib Dem.
I would normally vote Labour and despite Corbyn would still vote Labour if I lived in the right constituency. However mine is a Tory/Lib Dem marginal where a vote for Labour is pointless, I did it in 2015 and saw a Conservative MP get elected so it's got to be Lib Dem for me.
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Post by sparky5000 on Dec 11, 2019 13:33:52 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 I don't really understand this way of thinking at all. We all know that at least 50% of what these people tout at election time will never happen, ie most of the frankly stupid special interest stuff Labour has been touting and even if they do who cares as they affect so few people anyways. Their main policies however are for the general betterment of society and will never happen under the Tories. A vote for the Lib Dems is utterly pointless, you may as well vote for the Tories. If the Tories win there are going to be some very very dark times ahead for a hell of a lot of people. The fact no one seems to have noticed what has happened in the US over the past 3 years is very frightening to me, because that is exactly where we are heading. Frankly we are already part way there. Mine’s a protest vote as much as anything because I’m in a very safe Labour seat so it wouldn’t matter who I voted for. But I personally don’t like a lot of what this present socialist Labour Party stands for. I’m not voting for the Conservatives because I don’t trust them, I can’t stand Boris, I don’t like the way they’ve embraced the trump model of populism that seeks only to divide, and I don’t like how they’ve effectively become the far right Brexit party, but that doesn’t just mean I should vote for the Labour Party by default. I find the prospect of Corbyn being in power just as frightening as Johnson. |
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Dec 11, 2019 16:15:06 GMT
I don't really understand this way of thinking at all. We all know that at least 50% of what these people tout at election time will never happen, ie most of the frankly stupid special interest stuff Labour has been touting and even if they do who cares as they affect so few people anyways. Their main policies however are for the general betterment of society and will never happen under the Tories. A vote for the Lib Dems is utterly pointless, you may as well vote for the Tories. If the Tories win there are going to be some very very dark times ahead for a hell of a lot of people. The fact no one seems to have noticed what has happened in the US over the past 3 years is very frightening to me, because that is exactly where we are heading. Frankly we are already part way there. Mine’s a protest vote as much as anything because I’m in a very safe Labour seat so it wouldn’t matter who I voted for. But I personally don’t like a lot of what this present socialist Labour Party stands for. I’m not voting for the Conservatives because I don’t trust them, I can’t stand Boris, I don’t like the way they’ve embraced the trump model of populism that seeks only to divide, and I don’t like how they’ve effectively become the far right Brexit party, but that doesn’t just mean I should vote for the Labour Party by default. I find the prospect of Corbyn being in power just as frightening as Johnson. What do you think he's going to do that's so scary? |
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Post by sparky5000 on Dec 11, 2019 17:25:03 GMT
Mine’s a protest vote as much as anything because I’m in a very safe Labour seat so it wouldn’t matter who I voted for. But I personally don’t like a lot of what this present socialist Labour Party stands for. I’m not voting for the Conservatives because I don’t trust them, I can’t stand Boris, I don’t like the way they’ve embraced the trump model of populism that seeks only to divide, and I don’t like how they’ve effectively become the far right Brexit party, but that doesn’t just mean I should vote for the Labour Party by default. I find the prospect of Corbyn being in power just as frightening as Johnson. What do you think he's going to do that's so scary? His views on foreign policy. The fact that he supports socialist undemocratic regimes, which claim to be for the people yet suppress them by voter suppression. I don’t trust him at all on security. And although there are pros and cons I personally don’t think that renationalisation is the way forward. And Brexit tbh - I’m so sick of it. I voted remain and still want that outcome, but if we have a Labour led government I have zero trust in them agreeing a palatable deal in the 3 months they say they will. How can they when they have never even said what sort of deal they will be seeking. So yeah, they’re my main concerns. I have just as many issues with the Conservatives which is why it’s such a depressing choice for me. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 11, 2019 17:39:12 GMT
Appears tactical voting is proving to be popular, a tweet from tactical.vote earlier
Visits to tactical.vote are through the roof today and we're expecting even more tomorrow.
We've added more servers and load balancing to make sure it stays online.
Not sure of the validity of their recommendation, as always check a few and clarify for yourself before voting if you are in the fortunate position where your vote can make a difference.
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 11, 2019 18:07:56 GMT
Appears tactical voting is proving to be popular, a tweet from tactical.vote earlier Visits to tactical.vote are through the roof today and we're expecting even more tomorrow. We've added more servers and load balancing to make sure it stays online. Not sure of the validity of their recommendation, as always check a few and clarify for yourself before voting if you are in the fortunate position where your vote can make a difference. Is it just me who doesn't get tactical voting? Surely it doesn't work unless everybody joins in and does it? Say you change your normal vote to tactical, but what if a Tory for example has been convinced to vote Labour this election instead? So I'm voting Labour regardless. |
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 11, 2019 18:29:28 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 I disagree. In any other European country the Labour manifesto would not be considered radical. In contrast I believe the current amount of state support (or lack of it) is radical. I think only the US smaller? Labour has to move to a different model as the current one just won’t work. Have you seen the interview where Gordon Brown said that he thinks Corbyn has the right idea and that he would have brought in a similar programme if he could have, but that then the British public would not believe it possible. He says thinking on the continent (and in some parts here - see Financial Times) has now moved on and some countries now trying it. Ordinary will not solve our problems...we will just decline, as we are doing, in a gradual depressing way, until we have no services and it is normal to have extreme hardship. Your library will close, your bus will go, your queue on the phone for that doctors appointment will get longer. Oh, hold on....that’s already happening. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 18:38:01 GMT
Appears tactical voting is proving to be popular, a tweet from tactical.vote earlier Visits to tactical.vote are through the roof today and we're expecting even more tomorrow. We've added more servers and load balancing to make sure it stays online. Not sure of the validity of their recommendation, as always check a few and clarify for yourself before voting if you are in the fortunate position where your vote can make a difference. Is it just me who doesn't get tactical voting? Surely it doesn't work unless everybody joins in and does it? Say you change your normal vote to tactical, but what if a Tory for example has been convinced to vote Labour this election instead? So I'm voting Labour regardless. Current tactical voting has Con to Lab switchers at statistically negligible amounts, it isn’t happening (for obvious reasons). Labour voters are switching to Brexit, Conservative or Lib Dems depending where they are, Conservatives are switching to Lib Dems and Brexit, Lib Dem and Green voters are switching to Labour. Much of the movement in polls has been because of this wholesale tactical switching (a side effect of the ridiculous electoral system). If you know that Labour are not favoured in your seat, then a Labour vote is allowing a Conservative to win (if you are a Conservative disgruntled with Johnson, then a Labour wasted vote would be a good one for you, though). Check here tactical.vote/compareMy constituency suggests to vote Labour, so despite them being my third choice party (I voted Lib Dem and Green in the other two elections this year), then Labour it has to be, even if I’m not particularly aligned. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 18:46:13 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 The fact that the Lib Dems have gone down in the polls against a couple of leaders as divisive as Boris and JC says a lot about them. Whilst I'm not a Jo Swinson fan, I would have thought that as a successful woman under 40 she would have been an ideal alternative to woo the younger and remain voters as they would never vote for Boris and JC could be seen as too old and not someone they'd support. Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). If you are in a target then, boy, will you know about it. If not then, like me, you have barely noticed a Lib Dem presence. This is my first general election in a new constituency. I got a lot of Lib Dem and Green advertising for the Euros and the Locals. This time, nothing, nada, diddly squat. They are putting up paper candidates in many constituencies and will, by design, and to assist tactical voting, do pretty well in 10% of constituencies and pretty badly in the rest. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 11, 2019 20:08:31 GMT
I don't really understand this way of thinking at all. We all know that at least 50% of what these people tout at election time will never happen, ie most of the frankly stupid special interest stuff Labour has been touting and even if they do who cares as they affect so few people anyways. Their main policies however are for the general betterment of society and will never happen under the Tories. A vote for the Lib Dems is utterly pointless, you may as well vote for the Tories. If the Tories win there are going to be some very very dark times ahead for a hell of a lot of people. The fact no one seems to have noticed what has happened in the US over the past 3 years is very frightening to me, because that is exactly where we are heading. Frankly we are already part way there. Mine’s a protest vote as much as anything because I’m in a very safe Labour seat so it wouldn’t matter who I voted for. But I personally don’t like a lot of what this present socialist Labour Party stands for. I’m not voting for the Conservatives because I don’t trust them, I can’t stand Boris, I don’t like the way they’ve embraced the trump model of populism that seeks only to divide, and I don’t like how they’ve effectively become the far right Brexit party, but that doesn’t just mean I should vote for the Labour Party by default. I find the prospect of Corbyn being in power just as frightening as Johnson. For f***s sake |
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 11, 2019 20:51:02 GMT
Is it just me who doesn't get tactical voting? Surely it doesn't work unless everybody joins in and does it? Say you change your normal vote to tactical, but what if a Tory for example has been convinced to vote Labour this election instead? So I'm voting Labour regardless. Current tactical voting has Con to Lab switchers at statistically negligible amounts, it isn’t happening (for obvious reasons). Labour voters are switching to Brexit, Conservative or Lib Dems depending where they are, Conservatives are switching to Lib Dems and Brexit, Lib Dem and Green voters are switching to Labour. Much of the movement in polls has been because of this wholesale tactical switching (a side effect of the ridiculous electoral system). If you know that Labour are not favoured in your seat, then a Labour vote is allowing a Conservative to win (if you are a Conservative disgruntled with Johnson, then a Labour wasted vote would be a good one for you, though). Check here tactical.vote/compareMy constituency suggests to vote Labour, so despite them being my third choice party (I voted Lib Dem and Green in the other two elections this year), then Labour it has to be, even if I’m not particularly aligned. Thanks! I've tried to be as well informed as I can but being well informed of the right information is so hard in this election! I just want the Tories out ASAP, and every tactical voting site I've been too said I should vote Lib Dem so despite being Labour all my life, that's what I'll do tomorrow. |
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 11, 2019 20:59:06 GMT
Current tactical voting has Con to Lab switchers at statistically negligible amounts, it isn’t happening (for obvious reasons). Labour voters are switching to Brexit, Conservative or Lib Dems depending where they are, Conservatives are switching to Lib Dems and Brexit, Lib Dem and Green voters are switching to Labour. Much of the movement in polls has been because of this wholesale tactical switching (a side effect of the ridiculous electoral system). If you know that Labour are not favoured in your seat, then a Labour vote is allowing a Conservative to win (if you are a Conservative disgruntled with Johnson, then a Labour wasted vote would be a good one for you, though). Check here tactical.vote/compareMy constituency suggests to vote Labour, so despite them being my third choice party (I voted Lib Dem and Green in the other two elections this year), then Labour it has to be, even if I’m not particularly aligned. Thanks! I've tried to be as well informed as I can but being well informed of the right information is so hard in this election! I just want the Tories out ASAP, and every tactical voting site I've been too said I should vote Lib Dem so despite being Labour all my life, that's what I'll do tomorrow. Swapmyvote.uk makes me feel better about the tactical vote. Suggested it to Jamie Parker yesterday on twitter (who was having similar issues) and he replied to say he’d done it! That’s it Pinnacle reached! |
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 11, 2019 22:27:12 GMT
I disagree. In any other European country the Labour manifesto would not be considered radical. The radical thing is what's happened in the last 30 years and in particular since 2007. It's like arguing privatised healthcare is normal and proposing an NHS is extremist nonsense.
For example, the damage water privatisation has caused is immeasurable, all in the interests of shareholders and bonuses. It's appalling and obscene, yet in this country - alone - it's almost unquestioned. For anyone interested in what the water companies have done, Fergal Sharkey - former lead singer with The Undertones - has become a strong campaigner and advocate (see Twitter).
But that is literally one of dozens of extreme policies deemed within the range of 'normal' by the centre and centre-right media, and so the Gov gets a pass.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 23:00:21 GMT
Yes, absolutely the last thing we need right now is voters getting distracted by the fact a potential PM is also a potential security hazard! ;-) Do you mean Boris Johnson? Who takes Russian money and slipped his minders to party at that house with the Russian? And who refused to publish the report into Russia? And has Cummings as an advisor who has hid splippery hands all over the Vote Leave stuff? And stirs up hate of the Far Right with his comments about immigration? Get a grip. Actually I meant the guy who merrily hangs out with terrorists and anti-semites. Who dislikes the whole concept of our security services (though I suppose that’s only to be expected, given they had plenty of reason to be suspicious of him and certain of his cronies over the years). Who’ll happily trade Trident for...what? A handshake and a please-leave-us-alone-pretty-please smile when Kim and Putin come calling? Who we know allied security services have said they’ll be VERY circumspect about sharing information with if he gets in - thereby placing the entire country at risk. But sure, I’ll go on getting a grip. And you can go on encouraging people to vote for that guy... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 23:05:36 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 Ah sparky, you are so right... I’ve voted Tory this time, with some misgivings but hoping once Brexit is out of the way (well, the first stage at least) we see a return to the one nation Conservatism we’ve been promised. |
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Post by sparky5000 on Dec 11, 2019 23:21:25 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 I disagree. In any other European country the Labour manifesto would not be considered radical. In contrast I believe the current amount of state support (or lack of it) is radical. I think only the US smaller? Labour has to move to a different model as the current one just won’t work. Have you seen the interview where Gordon Brown said that he thinks Corbyn has the right idea and that he would have brought in a similar programme if he could have, but that then the British public would not believe it possible. He says thinking on the continent (and in some parts here - see Financial Times) has now moved on and some countries now trying it. Ordinary will not solve our problems...we will just decline, as we are doing, in a gradual depressing way, until we have no services and it is normal to have extreme hardship. Your library will close, your bus will go, your queue on the phone for that doctors appointment will get longer. Oh, hold on....that’s already happening. But what’s the point of moving to a new model if it won’t actually get you in power, or anywhere near a majority. You can only make change when you have the power to do so. This shoulda been a cake walk for Corbyn and Labour, but the fact that we’re looking at a probable Conservative majority says a lot to me. Yes, Brexit has muddled things, but the reason we are where we are is because Labour has just sat on the fence when it comes to Brexit, and it’s just played into the Conservatives’ hands. |
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Post by olliebean on Dec 11, 2019 23:44:07 GMT
Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). This is the problem with the Lib-Dems, isn't it? The point of tactical voting is supposed to be to keep the Tories out now, not to position the Lib-Dems to win in 5 years time. In some of those seats, where they have no realistic chance of winning in this election, by urging people to vote tactically for them they are in fact just splitting the anti-Tory vote and ensuring a Tory victory. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 12, 2019 0:02:24 GMT
Do you mean Boris Johnson? Who takes Russian money and slipped his minders to party at that house with the Russian? And who refused to publish the report into Russia? And has Cummings as an advisor who has hid splippery hands all over the Vote Leave stuff? And stirs up hate of the Far Right with his comments about immigration? Get a grip. Actually I meant the guy who merrily hangs out with terrorists and anti-semites. Who dislikes the whole concept of our security services (though I suppose that’s only to be expected, given they had plenty of reason to be suspicious of him and certain of his cronies over the years). Who’ll happily trade Trident for...what? A handshake and a please-leave-us-alone-pretty-please smile when Kim and Putin come calling? Who we know allied security services have said they’ll be VERY circumspect about sharing information with if he gets in - thereby placing the entire country at risk. But sure, I’ll go on getting a grip. And you can go on encouraging people to vote for that guy...  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 0:20:05 GMT
Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). This is the problem with the Lib-Dems, isn't it? The point of tactical voting is supposed to be to keep the Tories out now, not to position the Lib-Dems to win in 5 years time. In some of those seats, where they have no realistic chance of winning in this election, by urging people to vote tactically for them they are in fact just splitting the anti-Tory vote and ensuring a Tory victory. No, these are seats which have moved away from Labour. No way they are winning in Surrey, much of Sussex, much of Hampshire etc. etc. There have been a few London seats that have had both parties going for it but that's pretty much it. I think the London centric nature of this board has twisted perceptions. What is happening in Finchley or Kensington is not happening in Manchester, Birmingham, 95% of the North and so on. Blair understood how Lib Dem success worked for him. Sadly, the current lot haven't. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 0:24:53 GMT
The fact that the Lib Dems have gone down in the polls against a couple of leaders as divisive as Boris and JC says a lot about them. Whilst I'm not a Jo Swinson fan, I would have thought that as a successful woman under 40 she would have been an ideal alternative to woo the younger and remain voters as they would never vote for Boris and JC could be seen as too old and not someone they'd support. Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). If you are in a target then, boy, will you know about it. If not then, like me, you have barely noticed a Lib Dem presence. This is my first general election in a new constituency. I got a lot of Lib Dem and Green advertising for the Euros and the Locals. This time, nothing, nada, diddly squat. They are putting up paper candidates in many constituencies and will, by design, and to assist tactical voting, do pretty well in 10% of constituencies and pretty badly in the rest. Makes perfect sense as always what you say. I'll throw this idea out there whoever wins the Election today I'd back the other major party to take power next election. We'd have had a Tory lead administration for 14 years come 2024 Election or if it is sooner for well over a decade and I think that JC's policies would cause such chaos that Labour would likely be booted out at the next election if he got in. |
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