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Post by southstreet on Feb 4, 2021 21:36:46 GMT
What's the justification for the amount of money she is suing for? I always think people sue for such absurd amounts that bear no relation to their case. Sort of a "My neighbour played music too loud so I want £50k for loss of sleep." How is there a £128,000 price on a £4,000 job? I think I saw somewhere she is asking for her earnings and something like 25k for compensation from the Curve and the rest is from her agent for loss of future earnings due to them not representing her anymore and something like damaging her reputation. What’s so ridiculous about the agent is that for at least a few years, if they hadn’t stopped representing her, they still wouldn’t have provided her with any earnings cos nobody in the theatre industry would have hired her anyway, however much her agents might have tried.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 4, 2021 23:43:59 GMT
Having an agent is no guarantee of work. So it is impossible to give any realistic assessment of any lost earnings.
If she had succeeded in the role, her potential future earnings would have increased. But that is not a given.
If she had continued to play the role and played it straight, the critics would have ripped it apart and that would have damaged her career.
She is being used by her father and his corrupt friends to further an agenda based on hate. And she is doing nothing to stop it.
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Post by Mark on Feb 4, 2021 23:45:09 GMT
Such a crazy case. She will never be employed as an actress again, as she will always be "that person"... what a bizarre situation.
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Post by d'James on Feb 4, 2021 23:45:40 GMT
I mean she has clearly been brainwashed from birth, is there really any point in hating someone who is so far gone from reality? Why give her that much energy when at the end of the day the only person she is really hurting is herself. I feel sorry for her and her ilk more than anything. I can't imagine living the delusional life these people lead and it's not like after she's dealt with there's not a billion more of her to deal with. It is a shame how differently this could have played out. Perhaps her involvement in musical theatre, this role specifically, could have actually led to positive progression. Unfortunately the way it's been mis-managed and the vitriol that's poured out as a result will only serve to cause further damage. I read a fascinating book on diversity recently (Rebel Ideas, if anyones interested) that spoke about Derek Black, the American son of devout White Supremacists and godson of leader of the American White Nationalists, who was brainwashed from birth into the supremacist mindset and at one point looked set to fall into leadership of American white nationalism. Until he went to university. It was there he left the echo chamber he'd grown up in and met people from different cultures, different backgrounds, who embraced him ultimately leading to him denouncing white nationalism and White Supremacy. People can change and adapt their beliefs, indoctrination is bi-directional. Not defending her earlier comments but Omooba could have had different experiences if such a monsterous wall wasn't built up against her for her to climb. As such now she will never be in a position where positive conversations can be had, that's sad. Why can’t they be had? It is a shame how differently this could have played out. Perhaps her involvement in musical theatre, this role specifically, could have actually led to positive progression. Unfortunately the way it's been mis-managed and the vitriol that's poured out as a result will only serve to cause further damage. I read a fascinating book on diversity recently (Rebel Ideas, if anyones interested) that spoke about Derek Black, the American son of devout White Supremacists and godson of leader of the American White Nationalists, who was brainwashed from birth into the supremacist mindset and at one point looked set to fall into leadership of American white nationalism. Until he went to university. It was there he left the echo chamber he'd grown up in and met people from different cultures, different backgrounds, who embraced him ultimately leading to him denouncing white nationalism and White Supremacy. People can change and adapt their beliefs, indoctrination is bi-directional. Not defending her earlier comments but Omooba could have had different experiences if such a monsterous wall wasn't built up against her for her to climb. As such now she will never be in a position where positive conversations can be had, that's sad. It doesn't sit right with me, the whole thing is too weird. Any decent legal team would tell her she has no hope of winning this, but yet she still keeps going with it. It doesn't make sense. It’s Christian Concern; it will never make sense.
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Post by Deal J on Feb 5, 2021 8:31:47 GMT
She claimed that she wasn't on stage when the kiss happened in the previous production she was in, so she didn't know about it. It was then pointed out she WAS on stage at the time, to which she says she was at the side of the stage and "wasn't always looking" at what was going on. So. Cast iron case she has there...... So she doesn't research her roles fully, can't remember whether she was on stage during key moments, and doesn't always pay attention to what's going on when she's on stage... Aside from her beliefs and court case, she's hardly selling herself as an actor worth hiring!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 5, 2021 8:35:45 GMT
I suppose her approach is to take from the script the bits she likes and wants to believe in, and disregards the rest. Remind you of anything?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 9:21:26 GMT
It is a shame how differently this could have played out. ... People can change and adapt their beliefs, indoctrination is bi-directional. Not defending her earlier comments but Omooba could have had different experiences if such a monsterous wall wasn't built up against her for her to climb. As such now she will never be in a position where positive conversations can be had, that's sad. Why can’t they be had?It doesn't sit right with me, the whole thing is too weird. Any decent legal team would tell her she has no hope of winning this, but yet she still keeps going with it. It doesn't make sense. It’s Christian Concern; it will never make sense. Because no Casting Director will go near her now, nor any Producer. And even if they do, will any cast members feel comfortable in embracing her or make a concerted effort to work with her? Ultimately not, theatre is fickle and dramatic.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Feb 5, 2021 9:29:58 GMT
Why can’t they be had?It’s Christian Concern; it will never make sense. Because no Casting Director will go near her now, nor any Producer. And even if they do, will any cast members feel comfortable in embracing her or make a concerted effort to work with her? Ultimately not, theatre is fickle and dramatic. And its all the Curves fault for casting her in the first place!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 9:35:14 GMT
Because no Casting Director will go near her now, nor any Producer. And even if they do, will any cast members feel comfortable in embracing her or make a concerted effort to work with her? Ultimately not, theatre is fickle and dramatic. And its all the Curves fault for casting her in the first place! As I said earlier, her casting could have actually be a positive catalyst for change, but I get that its hard for people to see that.
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Post by alece10 on Feb 5, 2021 10:46:49 GMT
Has she been in Book of Mormon? Just asking...
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Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 5, 2021 10:57:55 GMT
It is not the role of a casting director to give someone a chance to change their unacceptable thinking.
If the production team has known about her views and past behaviour, she would not have been considered for the role. She may not even have been considered for any role in the production.
A production of a musical is just that. It does not exist to offer bigots a chance to reform.
The only person who can decide to change their thinking is the bigot. She has clearly demonstrated no desire or willingness to change.
If she had played the role 'straight' as she now apparently claims to have intended, then she would not have explored the piece properly to learn any of the lessons some claim might have been possible.
She may yet have the capacity for change. But she has in no way demonstrated a willingness to even consider it. She could have rethought things after she hid rather than be associated with a Pride celebration. She didn't. She could have rethought things after her involvement with the previous production of TCP. She didn't.
Is this a result of her upbringing? Almost certainly. But she is now an adult and has to take responsibility for her own actions. Her own choices. Many people grow up in a strict religious setting and decide to follow a different path once they reach adulthood. She hasn't rejected her upbringing. She has embraced it.
Until she takes the decision to reject this pernicious form of hatred, she has to live with the consequences. The only person with a responsibility to bring about this necessary personal growth is her.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 5, 2021 12:02:59 GMT
In her own words. A bit of subtle chicanery going on here? a suggestion that she didn’t even write the original Facebook post?
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 12:18:03 GMT
Just playing devils advocate here again and also I am probably a little ignorant to the 'theatre' process so this is definitely a question and not a statement in her defence.
If she was auditioning for the role of Nettie, why would she read the whole script? It is a pretty small role that has little to do with the 'Shug' episode of the story, so would she not just prepare an audition number for that role and flicked through the script looking specifically at that part? I'm sorry but that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Surely people auditioning for roles do not always read the entire script of everything they are up for if they are constantly zipping about to different auditions. This was only an audition, not a rehearsal.
She auditioned for a small role and was offered the lead. Is there an actor on earth who would not have jumped at that chance without doing research on the whole play? I know I would've.
Did they even get to the rehearsal stage or was this all flagged before things got to that point?
I am also going to reiterate that I firmly believe that it was possible that if her only knowledge of the material was the watching the film (she said she didn't read the whole script), it is perfectly reasonable that she did not know the character was meant to be a lesbian.
I found an interesting critique of the film Vs book yesterday which further backs this up. It is only available as a PDF download, so I had to copy and paste the text.
Spielberg's film adaptation intentionally manipulates and subverts the episode on lesbian love. While it cannot be denied that Walker's sexual discourse is far from inhibited, Joan Digby adds that "Spielberg's film softens Waker's approach to sex in order to produce a mass-audience Hollywood film".
In Peacock's analysis of Spielberg's adaptation, he avoids cornmenting on the lesbian relationship but he highlights the fact that "in the case of The Color Purple adaptation important African-American cultural resources got left on the cutting room floor" (1994, 127). In my opinion, one of the most striking differences between Walker's novel and Spielberg's film is the fact that, confronted with a story of lesbian sexual desire, rich in language and full of symbols, the director chooses both to subvert and to displace the lesbian episode by cutting it to pieces.
In her highly critical article "Blues for Mr. Spielberg", Michelle Wallace confesses that she felt "alarmed" when hearing that Spielberg was working on The Color Purple, calls the director "the boy wonder of pop culture", furiously denounces that the film was "the trivialization of non-white culture and female pain", and rejects the final product as "a comic Birth of a Nation" (1990, 67). In her rage, Wallace also argues that in Spielberg's reading of Alice Walker's The Color Purple "all signs of a black feminist agenda are banished, or ridiculed beyond repair".
While Walker's lesbian story is transgressive, subversive, and full of explicit sexual connotations, Spielberg's adaptation trivialises lesbian desire, denies its visibility, and marginalizes its protagonism by providing an excessively chaste reading. In other words, Shug's and Celie's complex homoerotic story is reduced to a single ambiguous scene that avoids any explicit lesbian suggestion. On the contrary, Walker's verbal and sexual passion is replaced by the predominante of the color red-both Celie and Shug wear sophisticated red clothes-and the lighting, together with a sensual music, give an atmosphere of intimacy, warmth, and complicity.
Furthermore, Spielberg eliminates the scene of the mirror together with all the graphic sexual connotations, but there is an abundance of mirrors in the room-a long one, and two smaller ones-in which Shug's and Celie's faces are constantly being reflected. Of the love-making scene there is no trace whatsoever; the closest Spielberg gets is by directing the camera towards the bed where Shug and Celie sit, and where they exchange their childish chaste kisses.
As I said yesterday, I have seen the film many times and never got the impression that it was anything more than a dalliance with someone trying to show her love and not some revealing expose of her sexuality.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 12:22:00 GMT
In her own words. A bit of subtle chicanery going on here? a suggestion that she didn’t even write the original Facebook post? Oh c'mon now, she is clearly talking about the person who reposted her original post, not that she didn't write it.
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Post by southstreet on Feb 5, 2021 12:29:43 GMT
I am also completely ignorant to the audition process, but seeing that this isn't a new unknown piece, part of the audition process (as well as every other interview process) if done properly, would be to at the very least some minor research into the subject matter. I would hope someone wouldn't just watch the movie when there is a musical "revival" happening.
Either way, the excuse doesn't wash in her case because she was part of an actual concert version of the show (with pretty much the whole dialogue acted out, too) where everyone was on stage the whole time. So again, she was fully aware of how the musical adaptation was portraying that character.
Of course, we can always play devil's advocate and come up with excuses for her, just as much as it's also totally feasible that a grown man who was worried that he wasn't able to see properly would take his child and his wife on a car drive with him to check out his eye sight but really, we know he just wanted a nice day out with his family to celebrate his wives birthday and had to make up some excuse when he was caught out.
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Post by cherokee on Feb 5, 2021 12:44:59 GMT
This whole situation is so weird.
I've kind of followed it since the controversy began. I may have misremembered some of the details but I seem to recall that Seyi Omooba had only recently appeared in Regent's Park's 'Little Shop of Horrors', which is where she'd opted to sit out of a performance for Pride. But other than that, she was apparently friendly enough with the LGBT members of the cast - and had even exchanged friendly tweets with Vicky Vox - the drag queen who played Audrey II. It's hard to imagine she could have got through musical theatre training and appearing in musicals if she was openly homophobic.
Then the Facebook posting was shared and, of course, all Hell broke loose. The Curve is quite correct that there would have been boycotts and the controversy would have undoubtedly overshadowed the production and damaged the theatre's reputation, had Omooba been allowed to remained in the role without denouncing her prior comments (and that was clearly something she was not prepared to do).
I assumed the legal argument she'd deploy would be that historically she had worked alongside LGBT people with no problem, that her Facebook post was not intended to be made public, and that she has the right to hold her views (which are not that unusual in Christian circles - particularly in the evangelical tradition to which she and her family belong), provided her beliefs did not interfere with her ability to carry out her job professionally and according to the terms of her contract.
But she now seems to be stating that she i) hadn't read the script properly; ii) had only watched the movie and not read the novel; iii) appeared in a concert version but was not aware of the lesbian themes and same-sex kiss; iv) would have refused to play the part in the way that the script and the director wanted and would therefore have quit the role voluntarily, leaving the production in the lurch. v) has refused to accept the full fee which Curve offered her in order to go.
So what does she want, and more to the point, who on earth is advising her?? Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem remotely possible that she stands a chance of winning, so what's going on? Is Christian Concern manipulating a not very bright young woman so that it can get some headlines about how the UK is allowed to discriminate against religious beliefs?
Just bizarre.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 12:50:21 GMT
I am also completely ignorant to the audition process, but seeing that this isn't a new unknown piece, part of the audition process (as well as every other interview process) if done properly, would be to at the very least some minor research into the subject matter. I would hope someone wouldn't just watch the movie when there is a musical "revival" happening. Either way, the excuse doesn't wash in her case because she was part of an actual concert version of the show (with pretty much the whole dialogue acted out, too) where everyone was on stage the whole time. So again, she was fully aware of how the musical adaptation was portraying that character. Of course, we can always play devil's advocate and come up with excuses for her, just as much as it's also totally feasible that a grown man who was worried that he wasn't able to see properly would take his child and his wife on a car drive with him to check out his eye sight but really, we know he just wanted a nice day out with his family to celebrate his wives birthday and had to make up some excuse when he was caught out. I am not making excuses for her I am just saying that I understand some of the confusion surrounding the characters sexuality based on what she knew of the material. Celie is a very complex character and the story covers her entire 60+ years of life in 2-3 hours. Her sexuality is only a small part of the story and frankly not a very important part of it in the context of the whole piece and what she goes through in her life. I think this case as a whole is a very complex issue that we have to deal with as a society where we on one hand are forced to accept someone's religious freedoms and their right to freedom of speech and yet then when they do express it they are persecuted for it. I mean she is not the only Christian on earth and they are all taught the same thing as are most other religions, so how do we actually deal with this beyond constantly cancelling people who are only doing what by law we tell them they are allowed to do and often fight along side them for their right to do so. I mean once this girls life is destroyed and she never works in the theatre again, what next? What has been solved by taking this girl down and don't we lose some of our own humanity in the process?
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Post by cherokee on Feb 5, 2021 12:51:57 GMT
Just playing devils advocate here again and also I am probably a little ignorant to the 'theatre' process so this is definitely a question and not a statement in her defence. If she was auditioning for the role of Nettie, why would she read the whole script? It is a pretty small role that has little to do with the 'Shug' episode of the story, so would she not just prepare an audition number for that role and flicked through the script looking specifically at that part? I'm sorry but that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Surely people auditioning for roles do not always read the entire script of everything they are up for if they are constantly zipping about to different auditions. This was only an audition, not a rehearsal. She auditioned for a small role and was offered the lead. Is there an actor on earth who would not have jumped at that chance without doing research on the whole play? I know I would've. Did they even get to the rehearsal stage or was this all flagged before things got to that point? I am also going to reiterate that I firmly believe that it was possible that if her only knowledge of the material was the watching the film (she said she didn't read the whole script), it is perfectly reasonable that she did not know the character was meant to be a lesbian. I found an interesting critique of the film Vs book yesterday which further backs this up. It is only available as a PDF download, so I had to copy and paste the text. Spielberg's film adaptation intentionally manipulates and subverts the episode on lesbian love. While it cannot be denied that Walker's sexual discourse is far from inhibited, Joan Digby adds that "Spielberg's film softens Waker's approach to sex in order to produce a mass-audience Hollywood film". In Peacock's analysis of Spielberg's adaptation, he avoids cornmenting on the lesbian relationship but he highlights the fact that "in the case of The Color Purple adaptation important African-American cultural resources got left on the cutting room floor" (1994, 127). In my opinion, one of the most striking differences between Walker's novel and Spielberg's film is the fact that, confronted with a story of lesbian sexual desire, rich in language and full of symbols, the director chooses both to subvert and to displace the lesbian episode by cutting it to pieces. In her highly critical article "Blues for Mr. Spielberg", Michelle Wallace confesses that she felt "alarmed" when hearing that Spielberg was working on The Color Purple, calls the director "the boy wonder of pop culture", furiously denounces that the film was "the trivialization of non-white culture and female pain", and rejects the final product as "a comic Birth of a Nation" (1990, 67). In her rage, Wallace also argues that in Spielberg's reading of Alice Walker's The Color Purple "all signs of a black feminist agenda are banished, or ridiculed beyond repair". While Walker's lesbian story is transgressive, subversive, and full of explicit sexual connotations, Spielberg's adaptation trivialises lesbian desire, denies its visibility, and marginalizes its protagonism by providing an excessively chaste reading. In other words, Shug's and Celie's complex homoerotic story is reduced to a single ambiguous scene that avoids any explicit lesbian suggestion. On the contrary, Walker's verbal and sexual passion is replaced by the predominante of the color red-both Celie and Shug wear sophisticated red clothes-and the lighting, together with a sensual music, give an atmosphere of intimacy, warmth, and complicity. Furthermore, Spielberg eliminates the scene of the mirror together with all the graphic sexual connotations, but there is an abundance of mirrors in the room-a long one, and two smaller ones-in which Shug's and Celie's faces are constantly being reflected. Of the love-making scene there is no trace whatsoever; the closest Spielberg gets is by directing the camera towards the bed where Shug and Celie sit, and where they exchange their childish chaste kisses. As I said yesterday, I have seen the film many times and never got the impression that it was anything more than a dalliance with someone trying to show her love and not some revealing expose of her sexuality. But even if all this is true, I don't understand why - when the Facebook post surfaced and by which time she clearly did realise that she was going to be required to play a lesbian character - she didn't just accept the offer of her full fee, and withdraw voluntarily. She refused to do that, which meant the Curve had to fire her. And this is apparently why she's suing. It just makes no sense.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 12:55:37 GMT
Is Christian Concern manipulating a not very bright young woman so that it can get some headlines about how the UK is allowed to discriminate against religious beliefs? That would be my reading of the situation.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 13:00:11 GMT
Just playing devils advocate here again and also I am probably a little ignorant to the 'theatre' process so this is definitely a question and not a statement in her defence. If she was auditioning for the role of Nettie, why would she read the whole script? It is a pretty small role that has little to do with the 'Shug' episode of the story, so would she not just prepare an audition number for that role and flicked through the script looking specifically at that part? I'm sorry but that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Surely people auditioning for roles do not always read the entire script of everything they are up for if they are constantly zipping about to different auditions. This was only an audition, not a rehearsal. She auditioned for a small role and was offered the lead. Is there an actor on earth who would not have jumped at that chance without doing research on the whole play? I know I would've. Did they even get to the rehearsal stage or was this all flagged before things got to that point? I am also going to reiterate that I firmly believe that it was possible that if her only knowledge of the material was the watching the film (she said she didn't read the whole script), it is perfectly reasonable that she did not know the character was meant to be a lesbian. I found an interesting critique of the film Vs book yesterday which further backs this up. It is only available as a PDF download, so I had to copy and paste the text. Spielberg's film adaptation intentionally manipulates and subverts the episode on lesbian love. While it cannot be denied that Walker's sexual discourse is far from inhibited, Joan Digby adds that "Spielberg's film softens Waker's approach to sex in order to produce a mass-audience Hollywood film". In Peacock's analysis of Spielberg's adaptation, he avoids cornmenting on the lesbian relationship but he highlights the fact that "in the case of The Color Purple adaptation important African-American cultural resources got left on the cutting room floor" (1994, 127). In my opinion, one of the most striking differences between Walker's novel and Spielberg's film is the fact that, confronted with a story of lesbian sexual desire, rich in language and full of symbols, the director chooses both to subvert and to displace the lesbian episode by cutting it to pieces. In her highly critical article "Blues for Mr. Spielberg", Michelle Wallace confesses that she felt "alarmed" when hearing that Spielberg was working on The Color Purple, calls the director "the boy wonder of pop culture", furiously denounces that the film was "the trivialization of non-white culture and female pain", and rejects the final product as "a comic Birth of a Nation" (1990, 67). In her rage, Wallace also argues that in Spielberg's reading of Alice Walker's The Color Purple "all signs of a black feminist agenda are banished, or ridiculed beyond repair". While Walker's lesbian story is transgressive, subversive, and full of explicit sexual connotations, Spielberg's adaptation trivialises lesbian desire, denies its visibility, and marginalizes its protagonism by providing an excessively chaste reading. In other words, Shug's and Celie's complex homoerotic story is reduced to a single ambiguous scene that avoids any explicit lesbian suggestion. On the contrary, Walker's verbal and sexual passion is replaced by the predominante of the color red-both Celie and Shug wear sophisticated red clothes-and the lighting, together with a sensual music, give an atmosphere of intimacy, warmth, and complicity. Furthermore, Spielberg eliminates the scene of the mirror together with all the graphic sexual connotations, but there is an abundance of mirrors in the room-a long one, and two smaller ones-in which Shug's and Celie's faces are constantly being reflected. Of the love-making scene there is no trace whatsoever; the closest Spielberg gets is by directing the camera towards the bed where Shug and Celie sit, and where they exchange their childish chaste kisses. As I said yesterday, I have seen the film many times and never got the impression that it was anything more than a dalliance with someone trying to show her love and not some revealing expose of her sexuality. But even if all this is true, I don't understand why - when the Facebook post surfaced and by which time she clearly did realise that she was going to be required to play a lesbian character - she didn't just accept the offer of her full fee, and withdraw voluntarily. She refused to do that, which meant the Curve had to fire her. And this is apparently why she's suing. It just makes no sense. Because it sounds like that is what she has been 'advised' to do.
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Post by cherokee on Feb 5, 2021 13:00:41 GMT
I am also completely ignorant to the audition process, but seeing that this isn't a new unknown piece, part of the audition process (as well as every other interview process) if done properly, would be to at the very least some minor research into the subject matter. I would hope someone wouldn't just watch the movie when there is a musical "revival" happening. Either way, the excuse doesn't wash in her case because she was part of an actual concert version of the show (with pretty much the whole dialogue acted out, too) where everyone was on stage the whole time. So again, she was fully aware of how the musical adaptation was portraying that character. Of course, we can always play devil's advocate and come up with excuses for her, just as much as it's also totally feasible that a grown man who was worried that he wasn't able to see properly would take his child and his wife on a car drive with him to check out his eye sight but really, we know he just wanted a nice day out with his family to celebrate his wives birthday and had to make up some excuse when he was caught out. I am not making excuses for her I am just saying that I understand some of the confusion surrounding the characters sexuality based on what she knew of the material. Celie is a very complex character and the story covers her entire 60+ years of life in 2-3 hours. Her sexuality is only a small part of the story and frankly not a very important part of it in the context of the whole piece and what she goes through in her life. I think this case as a whole is a very complex issue that we have to deal with as a society where we on one hand are forced to accept someone's religious freedoms and their right to freedom of speech and yet then when they do express it they are persecuted for it. I mean she is not the only Christian on earth and they are all taught the same thing as are most other religions, so how do we actually deal with this beyond constantly cancelling people who are only doing what by law we tell them they are allowed to do and often fight along side them for their right to do so. I mean once this girls life is destroyed and she never works in the theatre again, what next? What has been solved by taking this girl down and don't we lose some of our own humanity in the process? I agree with you in as much as there is a tension in society when rights conflict in this way. I remember the case of the Christian registrar who was fired for refusing to conduct gay weddings and then took the Council to tribunal. The argument there boiled down to the fact that nobody was saying that she couldn't hold her religious views, but the moment they interfered with her ability to do her job, and also potentially exposed her employer to accusations of discrimination against a section of society, it was untenable for her to remain in the role. If Omooba had refused to denounce the views she expressed in the Facebook post but had demonstrated a willingness to play the role as directed, I think the case would be more nuanced. In that case, would she have been punished for a 'thought crime'? (I don't actually subscribe to that view: a post on social media is still expressing a public viewpoint and free speech comes with an acceptance that there are consequences to what you say after you have expressed yourself; and it's clear that the moment her views became known, the theatre and the production started to suffer financial and reputational harm.) But nobody is 'taking this girl down' or 'destroying her life'. She has to accept that free speech has consequences. Most importantly, she's the one suing. She could have taken the money and walked away. I think your sympathy is a little misplaced.
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 13:11:58 GMT
I am not making excuses for her I am just saying that I understand some of the confusion surrounding the characters sexuality based on what she knew of the material. Celie is a very complex character and the story covers her entire 60+ years of life in 2-3 hours. Her sexuality is only a small part of the story and frankly not a very important part of it in the context of the whole piece and what she goes through in her life. I think this case as a whole is a very complex issue that we have to deal with as a society where we on one hand are forced to accept someone's religious freedoms and their right to freedom of speech and yet then when they do express it they are persecuted for it. I mean she is not the only Christian on earth and they are all taught the same thing as are most other religions, so how do we actually deal with this beyond constantly cancelling people who are only doing what by law we tell them they are allowed to do and often fight along side them for their right to do so. I mean once this girls life is destroyed and she never works in the theatre again, what next? What has been solved by taking this girl down and don't we lose some of our own humanity in the process? I agree with you in as much as there is a tension in society when rights conflict in this way. I remember the case of the Christian registrar who was fired for refusing to conduct gay weddings and then took the Council to tribunal. The argument there boiled down to the fact that nobody was saying that she couldn't hold her religious views, but the moment they interfered with her ability to do her job, and also potentially exposed her employer to accusations of discrimination against a section of society, it was untenable for her to remain in the role. If Omooba had refused to denounce the views she expressed in the Facebook post but had demonstrated a willingness to play the role as directed, I think the case would be more nuanced. In that case, would she have been punished for a 'thought crime'? (I don't actually subscribe to that view: a post on social media is still expressing a public viewpoint and free speech comes with an acceptance that there are consequences to what you say after you have expressed yourself; and it's clear that the moment her views became known, the theatre and the production started to suffer financial and reputational harm.) But nobody is 'taking this girl down' or 'destroying her life'. She has to accept that free speech has consequences. Most importantly, she's the one suing. She could have taken the money and walked away. I think your sympathy is a little misplaced. Sorry I don't agree. As a society we have said it fine to raise this child in this religion and that it is fine for her to believe what she has been taught and that she can express those views freely. We have given her that right from the moment she was concieved. Now we are saying she does not have the right to earn a living if she has and expresses those views. The original post is a quote from the bible and her saying she agrees with it, it was not some hate filled trade against gay people. She has previously worked with gay people and there was not a problem and I'm sorry I think the outrage over the Pride thing is just silly. If my employer held a Brexit party and I chose not to attend should I be fired or deported because it wasn't something I wanted to celebrate? The fact is if there hadn't have been a sh*tstorm she would've probably read the script and dropped out anyways and the whole thing wouldn't have ever happened.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2021 13:38:22 GMT
It is not the role of a casting director to give someone a chance to change their unacceptable thinking. If the production team has known about her views and past behaviour, she would not have been considered for the role. She may not even have been considered for any role in the production. A production of a musical is just that. It does not exist to offer bigots a chance to reform. The only person who can decide to change their thinking is the bigot. She has clearly demonstrated no desire or willingness to change. If she had played the role 'straight' as she now apparently claims to have intended, then she would not have explored the piece properly to learn any of the lessons some claim might have been possible. She may yet have the capacity for change. But she has in no way demonstrated a willingness to even consider it. She could have rethought things after she hid rather than be associated with a Pride celebration. She didn't. She could have rethought things after her involvement with the previous production of TCP. She didn't. Is this a result of her upbringing? Almost certainly. But she is now an adult and has to take responsibility for her own actions. Her own choices. Many people grow up in a strict religious setting and decide to follow a different path once they reach adulthood. She hasn't rejected her upbringing. She has embraced it. Until she takes the decision to reject this pernicious form of hatred, she has to live with the consequences. The only person with a responsibility to bring about this necessary personal growth is her. That's not what I said. I did not imply it was the responsibility of a Casting Director, or a production, to influence her change. I wholeheartedly agree that she has to be the person in control of her direction. But until she is out of the echo chamber that she has been raised in, that shaped her views, she will not be consciously receptive to new ways of thinking. This whole experience who only reaffirm and strengthen her views. Just like her experiences with Little Shop, where she was alienated for having a different opinion. Re-quoting my previous point:
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Post by intoanewlife on Feb 5, 2021 13:57:23 GMT
It is not the role of a casting director to give someone a chance to change their unacceptable thinking. If the production team has known about her views and past behaviour, she would not have been considered for the role. She may not even have been considered for any role in the production. A production of a musical is just that. It does not exist to offer bigots a chance to reform. The only person who can decide to change their thinking is the bigot. She has clearly demonstrated no desire or willingness to change. If she had played the role 'straight' as she now apparently claims to have intended, then she would not have explored the piece properly to learn any of the lessons some claim might have been possible. She may yet have the capacity for change. But she has in no way demonstrated a willingness to even consider it. She could have rethought things after she hid rather than be associated with a Pride celebration. She didn't. She could have rethought things after her involvement with the previous production of TCP. She didn't. Is this a result of her upbringing? Almost certainly. But she is now an adult and has to take responsibility for her own actions. Her own choices. Many people grow up in a strict religious setting and decide to follow a different path once they reach adulthood. She hasn't rejected her upbringing. She has embraced it. Until she takes the decision to reject this pernicious form of hatred, she has to live with the consequences. The only person with a responsibility to bring about this necessary personal growth is her. That's not what I said. I did not imply it was the responsibility of a Casting Director, or the production, to influence her change. I wholeheartedly agree that she has to be the person in control of her direction. But until she is out of the echo chamber that she has been raised in, that shaped her views, she will not be consciously receptive to new ways of thinking. This whole experience who only reaffirm and strengthen her views. Re-quoting my previous point: I don't think a lot of people have any sort of understanding of what religious brainwashing or any kind of brainwashing actually does to people which continues to alarm me after just going through Brexit, Trump and now Covid in such quick succession. This girl has been brainwashed from birth. It is entirely believable to me that she could've actually read the script and not picked up on the gay elements because her brain is trained to not even see such things, block them out or she does not interpret things in the right way. That is how their brains work, they have been totally rewired to block out things they see as undesirable or wrong. Their entire existence is completely skewed and blinkered and all reasoning goes out the window. I mean has no one ever had fights with friends who used to be normal people who are now totally irrational when any of the above subjects are brought up? It completely changes people and is very difficult to undo let alone on someone who has been brainwashed their entire lives.
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Post by cherokee on Feb 5, 2021 14:19:37 GMT
I agree with you in as much as there is a tension in society when rights conflict in this way. I remember the case of the Christian registrar who was fired for refusing to conduct gay weddings and then took the Council to tribunal. The argument there boiled down to the fact that nobody was saying that she couldn't hold her religious views, but the moment they interfered with her ability to do her job, and also potentially exposed her employer to accusations of discrimination against a section of society, it was untenable for her to remain in the role. If Omooba had refused to denounce the views she expressed in the Facebook post but had demonstrated a willingness to play the role as directed, I think the case would be more nuanced. In that case, would she have been punished for a 'thought crime'? (I don't actually subscribe to that view: a post on social media is still expressing a public viewpoint and free speech comes with an acceptance that there are consequences to what you say after you have expressed yourself; and it's clear that the moment her views became known, the theatre and the production started to suffer financial and reputational harm.) But nobody is 'taking this girl down' or 'destroying her life'. She has to accept that free speech has consequences. Most importantly, she's the one suing. She could have taken the money and walked away. I think your sympathy is a little misplaced. Sorry I don't agree. As a society we have said it fine to raise this child in this religion and that it is fine for her to believe what she has been taught and that she can express those views freely. We have given her that right from the moment she was concieved. Now we are saying she does not have the right to earn a living if she has and expresses those views. The original post is a quote from the bible and her saying she agrees with it, it was not some hate filled trade against gay people. She has previously worked with gay people and there was not a problem and I'm sorry I think the outrage over the Pride thing is just silly. If my employer held a Brexit party and I chose not to attend should I be fired or deported because it wasn't something I wanted to celebrate? The fact is if there hadn't have been a sh*tstorm she would've probably read the script and dropped out anyways and the whole thing wouldn't have ever happened. I don't think the Pride incident is silly necessarily. With respect, there isn't a history of systemic discrimination and prejudice against Brexiters, so I don't think you can make that comparison very accurately. A more appropriate comparison might have been if there had been a BLM event which an actor had chosen to miss because of their firmly held moral and ethical beliefs about black people. Nobody would necessarily have insisted the individual take part, but you could understand that those around them might be left feeling uncomfortable as a result. And she wasn't 'fired' or 'deported' for not wanting to participate in the Pride performance. There doesn't seem to have been a big fuss made at the time: but a gay castmate of hers noticed and was affected by her decision. And you're indulging in hyberbole by suggesting that she has been robbed of her right to earn a living because of having expressed her - as you say, fairly orthodox - Christian views. It's merely the case that in this instance, by expressing these views and standing by them, she was causing financial and reputational harm to her employer. There are lots of opinions out there which are not illegal, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are not offensive or repugnant to certain sections of society. As long as they are not an incitement to harm, there's nothing to stop her expressing them, but equally she has to accept that she cannot then be shielded from the consequences of exercising her right to free speech. Nobody is suggesting she should not be allowed to work in any field, merely questioning whether it was appropriate for her to be employed in this particular role. Given that she herself seems to agree that was inappropriate, it's hard to see why the case has gone ahead.
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