1,093 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jun 16, 2022 21:28:15 GMT
Can there be a category at the next WOS awards for Best Show Drama? Nominees could be: Gemma Collins for her achy foot Rodney Vubya for his small ego Isaac Hesketh for their inclusive tweets Cock for its cheap tickets Andy Webz for his well-written letter Dave Davidson (and Shenton and Lukowski getting into a Twitter spat over it) has to be in the running too.
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Post by dan28 on Jun 16, 2022 21:45:30 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members?? In my opinion this individual is bullying the audience. He posted that he woke up one day and decided he did not feel like singing the score, so he ad-libbed his way through the score and those ad-libbs were all over the place too. And then he tweeted and bragged about it. Now I like me some ad-lib if done by the real Whitney Houston, but not if it's in every line, the ad-libs totally fail, and in this setting. That is disdain towards the audience and the creators of the show. I am not paying to see a show and be belittled like that. Why would anyone expect that behaviour like that would not get negative or mocking reactions? A little snark is part of the theatre world too. But that's just my opinion.
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Post by d'James on Jun 16, 2022 21:54:54 GMT
I think we need to look up the word ‘bullying.’
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2,785 posts
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Post by ceebee on Jun 16, 2022 21:58:30 GMT
Wouldn't it have been great if Dave had rocked up one evening in Roy Taylor's roller skates twirling Trigger's broom instead of ribbons? That would have impressed me far more than some ad-libbed dot juggling.
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Post by inthenose on Jun 16, 2022 22:02:25 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I think some posts on this thread have crossed the line into playground bullying. Taking to a performer's social media profile to comment a joke at their expense, all for the entertainment of fellow board members?? In my opinion this individual is bullying the audience. He posted that he woke up one day and decided he did not feel like singing the score, so he ad-libbed his way through the score and those ad-libbs were all over the place too. And then he tweeted and bragged about it. Now I like me some ad-lib if done by the real Whitney Houston, but not if it's in every line, the ad-libs totally fail, and in this setting. That is disdain towards the audience and the creators of the show. I am not paying to see a show and be belittled like that. Why would anyone expect that behaviour like that would not get negative or mocking reactions? A little snark is part of the theatre world too. But that's just my opinion. "I didn’t sing the dots and gave zero f**** doing so!"
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Post by musicbox on Jun 16, 2022 23:08:04 GMT
In my opinion this individual is bullying the audience. He posted that he woke up one day and decided he did not feel like singing the score, so he ad-libbed his way through the score and those ad-libbs were all over the place too. And then he tweeted and bragged about it. Now I like me some ad-lib if done by the real Whitney Houston, but not if it's in every line, the ad-libs totally fail, and in this setting. That is disdain towards the audience and the creators of the show. I am not paying to see a show and be belittled like that. Why would anyone expect that behaviour like that would not get negative or mocking reactions? A little snark is part of the theatre world too. But that's just my opinion. "I didn’t sing the dots and gave zero f**** doing so!" I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so.
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Post by musicbox on Jun 16, 2022 23:42:43 GMT
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2,570 posts
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Post by viserys on Jun 17, 2022 6:21:26 GMT
The lyrics are hit and miss - mostly miss. This. Maybe it sounds weird, but I've come to "judge" musical theatre songs on how much I enjoy singing along with them. Intelligently crafted delicious lyrics makes me want to sing certain songs all day, while I struggle to get trite nonsense across my lips. Cinderella sadly often falls into the latter category. Titles like "I know I have a heart" and "Only you, lonely you" alone are cringeworthy. The melodies are glorious and typically ALW but I just can't get past those lyrics. "Bad Cinderella" could be very funny and clever, but is mostly lame. The story structure wasn't all that great either. Cinderella is introduced as this sassy rebel, then five minutes later comes the whiny reveal how it's all a facade (as if the audience can't guess). I would have loved for her to have a big "what am I gonna do?" song when the ball is announced, where she could have gone on about her inner conflict between wanting to stay true to her rebellious self or make concessions to fit in (and get the guy). I also often boggle at what constitutes "feminism" in musical theatre. Turning the tables to objectify men (well-built dancers though they may be) isn't it. If they wanted to see how you can turn medieval tropes into something modern, sassy and feminist, they should have taken a good long look at Matt Groening's "Disenchanted" and his chaotic princess Bean. (not sure why I'm even posting. But I've been a fan of ALW and his work for more than 30 years now and it just saddens me to see a new show of his go up into flames so spectacularly instead of giving him, if not another huge hit, at least a respectable success).
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868 posts
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Post by karloscar on Jun 17, 2022 7:26:06 GMT
The melodies in Cinderella are not "glorious". They're ploddy and predictable, you're never surprised by where they go, and they sit so squarely on the beat that they lose any energy they might have had. The arrangements don't help either being incredibly old fashioned, and if your lead character only has self-pitying whiny ballads, echoed by an equally wimpy leading man your show is dead in the water. Can't just blame the lyricist here when he had nothing inspiring to work with.
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Post by dan28 on Jun 17, 2022 8:57:50 GMT
I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so. That might be true for that very specific little group of obstinate, overly tolerant, present-giving stage door fans who attended that performance, but the overall respectful, paying, serious theatre audiences have a different opinion.
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Post by Oliver on Jun 17, 2022 9:01:04 GMT
The melodies in Cinderella are not "glorious". They're ploddy and predictable, you're never surprised by where they go, and they sit so squarely on the beat that they lose any energy they might have had. The arrangements don't help either being incredibly old fashioned, and if your lead character only has self-pitying whiny ballads, echoed by an equally wimpy leading man your show is dead in the water. Can't just blame the lyricist here when he had nothing inspiring to work with. People always say "predictable!" when they don't like something, it's as old as the hills. It's easy of course since the score has already been composed. I would bet that many of the songs in shows you like could equally be given the same label according to the specifications you use for Cinderella, probably to a much greater extent, but because you like those shows you wouldn't dream of calling the songs predictable. And of course people only think of the score in terms of its constituent parts, the songs, or "tunes" to use the vulgar vernacular, rather than its totality. The greatest songs have an inevitability about them, it's not about surprising the listener constantly by turning in all kinds of crazy directions (which is easier), it's about constructing the perfect melodic arc, something which people who come out with the "predictable" label never seem to be able to do themselves. And it's the opposite of "plodding", the first act in particular never loses its momentum musically, it keeps the attentive listener hooked from the first note to last.
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Post by cezbear on Jun 17, 2022 9:10:55 GMT
I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so. That might be true for that very specific little group of obstinate, overly tolerant, present-giving stage door fans who attended that performance, but the overall respectful, paying, serious theatre audiences have a different opinion. I think musicbox meant no one was interested in his silly warbles (but don't want to speak for them so shut me up if I'm wrong!). Having heard said warbles, it was self indulgent, all over the place, made no melodic sense, and has done nothing to change my opinion of our Dave. Embarrassing.
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Post by danb on Jun 17, 2022 9:53:56 GMT
Predictable can also be comfortable and for me was when the show worked best. One person singing a classic ALW/Puccinni ballad. When it tried to be modern or cutting edge it just made me cringe, like your Dad buying inappropriate clothes.
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Post by Oliver on Jun 17, 2022 11:30:21 GMT
Predictable can also be comfortable and for me was when the show worked best. One person singing a classic ALW/Puccinni ballad. When it tried to be modern or cutting edge it just made me cringe, like your Dad buying inappropriate clothes. I see what you mean, I may have been taking "predictable" too literally. I should say I was also being slightly tongue in cheek in my reply to Karlosar, although the points I made are ones I hold to.
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868 posts
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Post by karloscar on Jun 17, 2022 11:44:24 GMT
The melodies in Cinderella are not "glorious". They're ploddy and predictable, you're never surprised by where they go, and they sit so squarely on the beat that they lose any energy they might have had. The arrangements don't help either being incredibly old fashioned, and if your lead character only has self-pitying whiny ballads, echoed by an equally wimpy leading man your show is dead in the water. Can't just blame the lyricist here when he had nothing inspiring to work with. People always say "predictable!" when they don't like something, it's as old as the hills. It's easy of course since the score has already been composed. I would bet that many of the songs in shows you like could equally be given the same label according to the specifications you use for Cinderella, probably to a much greater extent, but because you like those shows you wouldn't dream of calling the songs predictable. And of course people only think of the score in terms of its constituent parts, the songs, or "tunes" to use the vulgar vernacular, rather than its totality. The greatest songs have an inevitability about them, it's not about surprising the listener constantly by turning in all kinds of crazy directions (which is easier), it's about constructing the perfect melodic arc, something which people who come out with the "predictable" label never seem to be able to do themselves. And it's the opposite of "plodding", the first act in particular never loses its momentum musically, it keeps the attentive listener hooked from the first note to last. What a load of pretentious tosh. Even if you are being tongue in cheek, "perfect melodic arc" my arse!
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Post by musicbox on Jun 17, 2022 12:16:45 GMT
I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so. That might be true for that very specific little group of obstinate, overly tolerant, present-giving stage door fans who attended that performance, but the overall respectful, paying, serious theatre audiences have a different opinion. I think I worded my post badly, I was trying to say the audience didn’t care how many runs he added because his part was so minimal. It was extremely cringe to see him try to be the main character next to such talent with bigger parts.
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Post by alwfan on Jun 17, 2022 16:11:55 GMT
It was interesting to watch her reactions when Laurence read the letter and when everyone booed. Very different from Carrie. Even Ivano seemed to be more in line with VHB. She also seemed to nod and agree when he said not to assume that ALW is the villain.
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Post by musicbox on Jun 17, 2022 17:19:26 GMT
It was interesting to watch her reactions when Laurence read the letter and when everyone booed. Very different from Carrie. Even Ivano seemed to be more in line with VHB. She also seemed to nod and agree when he said not to assume that ALW is the villain. Yeah Victoria has mentioned a few times on social media that she is really grateful to ALW because he allowed her to have an alternate on Sunday matinees, giving her more time with her young daughters, so won’t bash him and would happily work on another contract for him. She’s also hinted that we don’t know the full story, so I suppose we’ll never know! I can only imagine how infuriating younger prima donna ensembles must be to her and Rebecca Trehearn.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:28:07 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year.
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Post by inthenose on Jun 17, 2022 17:30:19 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year. Are you attempting to make this into a social justice issue, rather than it being a rubbish show with some very, very unprofessional people in it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:46:07 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year. Are you attempting to make this into a social justice issue, rather than it being a rubbish show with some very, very unprofessional people in it? What no. I'm saying that a homophobe is using Cinderella closing early as an example of people not supporting the LGBTQI+ Community. What they said: It's all gotten a bit mental, Andrew Lloyd Webbers version of Cinderella where the Prince runs off with another man shut audience for it. An all female cast for a Jane Austen play where she tells Mr Darcy to **** off just aren't highbrow enough to appreciate it, apparently.Cinderella closed because it wasn't very good in my opinion not because of a gay sub-plot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:53:01 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year. Are you attempting to make this into a social justice issue, rather than it being a rubbish show with some very, very unprofessional people in it? I don't think Bombshell was doing that at all, just observing that some say that's why it failed and that it's a ridiculous notion.
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2,150 posts
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Post by richey on Jun 17, 2022 19:17:39 GMT
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18,844 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 17, 2022 19:28:58 GMT
Major eye roll.
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Post by cezbear on Jun 17, 2022 19:29:40 GMT
It was interesting to watch her reactions when Laurence read the letter and when everyone booed. Very different from Carrie. Even Ivano seemed to be more in line with VHB. She also seemed to nod and agree when he said not to assume that ALW is the villain. I think VHB & Ivano have both made a real effort not to jump on the bandwagon with the rest of the cast and keep it professional. I don't think I saw even a flicker from an otherwise very emotional Ivano during the letter reading. Both strike me as grateful for the opportunities they've had (Ivano being in his west end debut and VHB being able to have her Sunday shows off) and their attitudes are a real contrast to some. Georgina O also, actually.
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Post by Jon on Jun 17, 2022 19:30:56 GMT
I don't want to come across as callous but surely if you're an actor, you know it's not the most secure profession financially and it sucks that a show you're in closes but that part and parcel of the industry.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 20:05:10 GMT
I feel like people have lost all common sense and logic in the last couple of years.
Anyone with even a remote interest in theatre knows shows close early sometimes. Also the cast will have known cinderella wasn't exactly a hit. And any job in any sector can end unexpectedly. This just seems like taking advantage of the negative headlines for self promotion.
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18,844 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 17, 2022 20:13:13 GMT
The word is “entitlement”.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jun 17, 2022 22:52:19 GMT
Dave has got a new gig: STOP PRESS: @rodneyvubya, who recently appeared in @alwcinderella in the West End, has joined the cast of this year's first Tonight at the Musicals concert. The performance will take place at @cromerchurch on Tuesday 12th July 2022 at 7.30pm. Tickets: t.co/iV0dbMdeAU. t.co/wVOIZw5Tn0
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2,379 posts
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Post by robertb213 on Jun 17, 2022 23:00:59 GMT
Dave has got a new gig: STOP PRESS: @rodneyvubya, who recently appeared in @alwcinderella in the West End, has joined the cast of this year's first Tonight at the Musicals concert. The performance will take place at @cromerchurch on Tuesday 12th July 2022 at 7.30pm. Tickets: t.co/iV0dbMdeAU. t.co/wVOIZw5Tn0Do Jon and Craig know? 🤣
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