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Post by inthenose on May 3, 2022 18:02:37 GMT
And as I said earlier, yesterday it was the number one on the most read articles on BBC news. This has definitely had "impressions" as they say in the social media/advertising world. Yeah it definitely has! Without going into too much about my life, I also work in this industry and sadly this kind of thing is an every day scenario, but I'm glad that's being reported on as it's just not ok! The amount of times I've had jobs taken in seconds via an email, text message, short phone call or even notice board is horrendous, but if you work in this industry it's sadly normal and you eventually gain a tough skin. Just a few months ago I was in a position where I lost two jobs in a matter of months and had to borrow money from my parents for basic bills and food, which is demoralising for someone in their 20s. I'm really lucky to have a full time contract at the moment, but it's not the norm. Unfortunately creative professionals are often seen as not having a 'proper' job by the masses, like what we do is just fun and not hard work - Just look at some of the top Daily Mail comments if you want proof of that! My heart goes out to everyone involved as it's horrendous and really knocks your confidence, but it's also something you have to prepare for if you want to continue in this profession. And I want to add, and I appreciate you're speaking as a turn, that so many people are acutely unaware that the cast are just one (very important) part of the process. The crew, musicians, stage management, FOH, venue management, producers, creatives - theatre is borne of collaboration. A LOT of people, including very good friends of mine, are hurting. |
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Post by musicbox on May 3, 2022 18:04:53 GMT
Yeah it definitely has! Without going into too much about my life, I also work in this industry and sadly this kind of thing is an every day scenario, but I'm glad that's being reported on as it's just not ok! The amount of times I've had jobs taken in seconds via an email, text message, short phone call or even notice board is horrendous, but if you work in this industry it's sadly normal and you eventually gain a tough skin. Just a few months ago I was in a position where I lost two jobs in a matter of months and had to borrow money from my parents for basic bills and food, which is demoralising for someone in their 20s. I'm really lucky to have a full time contract at the moment, but it's not the norm. Unfortunately creative professionals are often seen as not having a 'proper' job by the masses, like what we do is just fun and not hard work - Just look at some of the top Daily Mail comments if you want proof of that! My heart goes out to everyone involved as it's horrendous and really knocks your confidence, but it's also something you have to prepare for if you want to continue in this profession. And I want to add, and I appreciate you're speaking as a turn, that so many people are acutely unaware that the cast are just one (very important) part of the process. The crew, musicians, stage management, FOH, venue management, producers, creatives - theatre is borne of collaboration. A LOT of people, including very good friends of mine, are hurting. Yeah I agree 100%! I mentioned earlier in the thread that I feel terrible for FOH as they are probably being treated even worse, but are being ignored. |
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Post by Jon on May 3, 2022 18:08:49 GMT
Does anyone know if BBC London covered the story?
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Post by inthenose on May 3, 2022 18:09:16 GMT
We need a poll: Malicious or Incompetent.
Neither deserves to be producing a West End show.
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Post by danb on May 3, 2022 18:31:23 GMT
If you want to do it properly, you do it properly. If you don’t really care you let it slip out and accidentally spill elsewhere. End of. Okay, but it's hardly the egregious crime that it is being made out to be. As I say, the current cast and crew are still getting more notice than most people in their position -- and while it is unfortunate for the incoming cast, whether they hear by press release or their agent doesn't make any material difference to the underlying reality. I'm not saying any of it is ideal, but the wave of opprobrium feels a bit much -- particularly if it is the case that the show has been propped up since it first opened. I don’t believe that there is a sliding scale for ‘duty of care’. He has one; he did not exercise it. Knob. |
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Post by longinthetooth on May 3, 2022 18:44:20 GMT
Does anyone know if BBC London covered the story? Yes, they did. Summer Strallen spoke too. |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on May 3, 2022 18:45:58 GMT
Unfortunately creative professionals are often seen as not having a 'proper' job by the masses, like what we do is just fun and not hard work - Just look at some of the top Daily Mail comments if you want proof of that! Very true, and I’m sorry that happened to you. There’s also the weird assumption that a lot of people seem to make that all working actors are being paid squillions! |
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Post by mitch on May 3, 2022 18:53:37 GMT
Okay, but it's hardly the egregious crime that it is being made out to be. As I say, the current cast and crew are still getting more notice than most people in their position -- and while it is unfortunate for the incoming cast, whether they hear by press release or their agent doesn't make any material difference to the underlying reality. I'm not saying any of it is ideal, but the wave of opprobrium feels a bit much -- particularly if it is the case that the show has been propped up since it first opened. I don’t believe that there is a sliding scale for ‘duty of care’. He has one; he did not exercise it. Knob. Ummm there definitely is a sliding scale -- though even suggesting that this is a duty of care issue is pretty mad IMO (and speaks to the hyperbole that I mentioned earlier). |
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Post by Jon on May 3, 2022 19:06:53 GMT
I do wonder if ALW may keep a low profile for a while? As I've mentioned before, I think his various media appearances have done more harm than good and 6-8 months away from the limelight would do him the world of good, I think personally he should retire and hand over RUG to someone else and perhaps sell his theatres which he's been threatening to do for months.
It would be interesting to know what other leading industry figures are thinking about the Cinderella debacle.
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Post by marob on May 3, 2022 19:19:54 GMT
He’s doing something with Lin-Manuel Miranda for the jubilee, so if anything we’ll get more of him than ever.
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Post by stagebyte on May 3, 2022 19:23:47 GMT
Wonder if he’s started writing part 2 of Unmasked: A memoir.
The first part only took us up to Phantom. Think Cinderella needs a volume all on its own.
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Post by danb on May 3, 2022 19:35:59 GMT
I don’t believe that there is a sliding scale for ‘duty of care’. He has one; he did not exercise it. Knob. Ummm there definitely is a sliding scale -- though even suggesting that this is a duty of care issue is pretty mad IMO (and speaks to the hyperbole that I mentioned earlier). An employer not having a duty of care for his employees? Who are you? Mike Ashley? |
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Post by inthenose on May 3, 2022 19:38:15 GMT
He’s doing something with Lin-Manuel Miranda "Hello fellow kids" |
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Post by Jon on May 3, 2022 19:40:22 GMT
Wonder if he’s started writing part 2 of Unmasked: A memoir. The first part only took us up to Phantom. Think Cinderella needs a volume all on its own. I think we'd need Unmasked Part 3 to fit in both Cinderella and Sunset Boulevard. It's odd that ALW is not good at producing when he's a great composer and he's a somewhat decent theatre owner as evident with the refurbishment of Drury Lane. |
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Post by danb on May 3, 2022 19:41:41 GMT
He’s doing something with Lin-Manuel Miranda "Hello fellow kids" And so it continues. “Hey, who’s cool at the moment? Who’s zeitgeist can I hijack and totally negate next?” |
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Post by Jon on May 3, 2022 19:44:44 GMT
And so it continues. “Hey, who’s cool at the moment? Who’s zeitgeist can I hijack and totally negate next?” TBF it's a one-off project for the Jubilee and LMM probably will have some fun with him. |
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Post by stagebyte on May 3, 2022 20:20:46 GMT
And so it continues. “Hey, who’s cool at the moment? Who’s zeitgeist can I hijack and totally negate next?” TBF it's a one-off project for the Jubilee and LMM probably will have some fun with him. I need him to step away from LMM and get to that ghostwriter for the next part of his memoir He really needs to get a wriggle on. Forgot about Sunset. At this rate we’ll never get to Cinderella |
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Post by scarpia on May 3, 2022 21:00:50 GMT
Just saw the clip of Nick Ferrari defending ALW, quite cringy to watch and I normally tolerate Nick. He seemed to imply that ALW himself was losing lots of money himself and so the cast/crew/FOH/orch etc were hardly the only ones to be out of pocket. Um no, RUG is losing money but ALW himself isn't. He'll have taken his composer's fee and producer's fee from the grosses and that will be that. Any losses will be incurred by the company. Maybe one good thing could come of this: Laurence Connor never directing a new (or any) ALW show again. Doubt that will happen, but one can hope... I suspect Sir Cameron is chuckling to himself tonight at the Sondheim with Schadenfreude... |
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Post by mrbarnaby on May 3, 2022 21:08:01 GMT
Just saw the clip of Nick Ferrari defending ALW, quite cringy to watch and I normally tolerate Nick. He seemed to imply that ALW himself was losing lots of money himself and so the cast/crew/FOH/orch etc were hardly the only ones to be out of pocket. Um no, RUG is losing money but ALW himself isn't. He'll have taken his composer's fee and producer's fee from the grosses and that will be that. Any losses will be incurred by the company. Maybe one good thing could come of this: Laurence Connor never directing a new (or any) ALW show again. Doubt that will happen, but one can hope... I suspect Sir Cameron is chuckling to himself tonight at the Sondheim with Schadenfreude... O’Connor won’t be directing for him again. Usually directors /designers survive for 2/3 shows and then they are binned and blamed for a show failing (instead of a terrible score/book/storyline) and he’s done his 2 shows now. |
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Post by Jon on May 3, 2022 21:13:38 GMT
Just saw the clip of Nick Ferrari defending ALW, quite cringy to watch and I normally tolerate Nick. He seemed to imply that ALW himself was losing lots of money himself and so the cast/crew/FOH/orch etc were hardly the only ones to be out of pocket. Um no, RUG is losing money but ALW himself isn't. He'll have taken his composer's fee and producer's fee from the grosses and that will be that. Any losses will be incurred by the company. Cinderella had other producers involved such as Access Entertainment and Crossroads Entertainment so RUG wouldn't have shouldered all the losses. ALW was on Nick's show months ago when he went on about the Chinese wanting the theatres which came across as xenophobic. |
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Post by inthenose on May 3, 2022 21:15:28 GMT
He seemed to imply that ALW himself was losing lots of money himself and so the cast/crew/FOH/orch etc were hardly the only ones to be out of pocket. Um no, RUG is losing money but ALW himself isn't. He'll have taken his composer's fee and producer's fee from the grosses and that will be that. Any losses will be incurred by the company. Maybe one good thing could come of this: Laurence Connor never directing a new (or any) ALW show again. Doubt that will happen, but one can hope... I suspect Sir Cameron is chuckling to himself tonight at the Sondheim with Schadenfreude... O’Connor won’t be directing for him again. Usually directors /designers survive for 2/3 shows and then they are binned and blamed for a show failing (instead of a terrible score/book/storyline) and he’s done his 2 shows now. Two/three is very generous if you look at his overall record - what Laurence has actually done. |
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Post by Jon on May 3, 2022 21:16:24 GMT
O’Connor won’t be directing for him again. Usually directors /designers survive for 2/3 shows and then they are binned and blamed for a show failing (instead of a terrible score/book/storyline) and he’s done his 2 shows now. I think Connor has succeeded the 2 show mark as he directed Joseph and the concert version of Jesus Christ Superstar alongside Phantom, School of Rock and Cinderella. |
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Post by scarpia on May 3, 2022 21:17:15 GMT
He seemed to imply that ALW himself was losing lots of money himself and so the cast/crew/FOH/orch etc were hardly the only ones to be out of pocket. Um no, RUG is losing money but ALW himself isn't. He'll have taken his composer's fee and producer's fee from the grosses and that will be that. Any losses will be incurred by the company. Cinderella had other producers involved such as Access Entertainment and Crossroads Entertainment so RUG wouldn't have shouldered all the losses. Ah, in that case, cue ALW blaming Access/Crossroads in 3...2...1... |
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Post by mitch on May 3, 2022 21:17:29 GMT
Ummm there definitely is a sliding scale -- though even suggesting that this is a duty of care issue is pretty mad IMO (and speaks to the hyperbole that I mentioned earlier). An employer not having a duty of care for his employees? Who are you? Mike Ashley? He's not an employer as such as most of those working on the project are self-employed...but notwithstanding that I genuinely can't see where the duty of care issue is. As I say, the only actual transgression here seems to be that the story was publicly released before the people working on the show were formally told. It's obviously not ideal but in terms of the timelines etc it's all well within the statutory and contractual terms. As someone who has been called down to the stage to receive their two weeks notice from the management of a show, I just don't really see why Cinderella has become such an apparent limit case -- volatility and uncertainty has always been a part of the business and realistically always will be, I can't see any realistic way around that. I would be interested to know if those working on the show were paid during those periods of time when the show was dark for various reasons. |
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Post by max on May 3, 2022 21:21:35 GMT
May 3, 2022 22:00:50 GMT 1 scarpia said: "I suspect Sir Cameron is chuckling to himself tonight at the Sondheim with Schadenfreude..." Cameron at the Sondheim with Schadenfreude? Is that the sequel to Sunday In The Park With George? |
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