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Post by Fleance on Mar 27, 2019 12:56:37 GMT
I'm awaiting opinions about Top Girls, which began previews last night. It has a great cast. I've only seen one Caryl Churchill play -- Serious Money, many years ago at Wyndham's.
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 27, 2019 22:52:30 GMT
I saw this tonight and thought it was pretty dreadful, went in cold and couldn’t workout what was going on completely confused. First half came in at 1hr 40min, which felt leaden and completely overlong. I was sitting in row E of the circle and felt very remote from the piece, this piece felt more of an intimate piece and would be better served in the Dorfman.
1 Star.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2019 0:34:11 GMT
It is a very strange piece. I have never fully worked out the structure of the piece. I could imagine doing Act 1 as a standalone piece - but I just can't reconcile it with the office/domestic scenes.
I hosted a reading of it a few months ago and we couldn't warm to it as a piece. There were good moments - but it doesn't work as a whole.
It certainly hasn't aged well
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Post by mistressjojo on Mar 28, 2019 0:42:54 GMT
It is a very strange piece. I have never fully worked out the structure of the piece. I could imagine doing Act 1 as a standalone piece - but I just can't reconcile it with the office/domestic scenes. I hosted a reading of it a few months ago and we couldn't warm to it as a piece. There were good moments - but it doesn't work as a whole. It certainly hasn't aged well I have always thought this - it very much seems to me like two different plays cobbled together on a thin premise. I remember studying this play at college, although we only ever looked at the first act. Even then I found the Marlene character un-likeable. But then I always find Caryl Churchill's plays too much work to be enjoyable. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 1:27:57 GMT
It is a very strange piece. I have never fully worked out the structure of the piece. I could imagine doing Act 1 as a standalone piece - but I just can't reconcile it with the office/domestic scenes. I hosted a reading of it a few months ago and we couldn't warm to it as a piece. There were good moments - but it doesn't work as a whole. It certainly hasn't aged well It was never a commercial audience pleaser but time has made it into one of those plays which have expectations which are different to the reality, I think. Although gender is the hook, it’s also really more about class and specifically class in the early eighties, so pretty much lost on an audience below the age of fifty or so. It can work even so but needs a brilliant Marlene to create the throughline from her dream dinner to the realism of the office scenes and then to the bleakness of the final act. The acts do clearly relate but playing it as soap opera with a tacked on prologue doesn’t work. I’d use the dinner party as the springboard, build on the fantasy element and have it as an expressionist nightmare presentation of Marlene’s memories and imagination. That makes sense of the non-linearity, integrates act one into the whole and allows for interpolation of video projection setting the characters in the context of the era. The characters from act one can then also have echoes within the other characters that the actor doubles up with later. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 8:27:24 GMT
I saw it a few years ago at Trafalgar Studios (with Surabne Jones) and really it feels like 2 plays just shoved together to make a whole one to justify the ticket price. I’d quite like to revisit it though, so will check this out as I suspect the NT version has quite a different feel.
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Post by turbo25 on Mar 28, 2019 10:43:30 GMT
Saw this last night. Quite a few walk outs followed by about a third of the audience leaving at the interval which yes, came after 1hr and 40 minutes. It was a very sparse Lyttleton after 9:30pm...
Zero integration between the scenes, and I wonder if they can sort this out over the preview period.
Instead of doubling roles they have decided to spend a fortune and cast a different actor in every single part - but again, this has the effect of making the various scenes come across as entirely independent plays. Those poor women having to hang about for around two hours to take bows to a smattering of applause...
I also felt a big disconnect between the realism of the writing and the sheer theatricality of the performances.
Also - watch out for one of my pet peeves - an adult actress playing a teenager quite poorly. All tics and twisted posture. Bad casting imho.
Not good...1.5 stars from me. x
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2019 11:05:46 GMT
The doubling is such an integral part to the original intention behind the piece (from all I have read) that I am amazing the CC agreed to let them approach the production in this way. And given how close she is to Norris, I cannot believe she wasn't involved at some point.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 28, 2019 11:08:41 GMT
It is a very strange piece. I have never fully worked out the structure of the piece. I could imagine doing Act 1 as a standalone piece - but I just can't reconcile it with the office/domestic scenes. I hosted a reading of it a few months ago and we couldn't warm to it as a piece. There were good moments - but it doesn't work as a whole. It certainly hasn't aged well It was never a commercial audience pleaser but time has made it into one of those plays which have expectations which are different to the reality, I think. Although gender is the hook, it’s also really more about class and specifically class in the early eighties, so pretty much lost on an audience below the age of fifty or so. It can work even so but needs a brilliant Marlene to create the throughline from her dream dinner to the realism of the office scenes and then to the bleakness of the final act. The acts do clearly relate but playing it as soap opera with a tacked on prologue doesn’t work. I’d use the dinner party as the springboard, build on the fantasy element and have it as an expressionist nightmare presentation of Marlene’s memories and imagination. That makes sense of the non-linearity, integrates act one into the whole and allows for interpolation of video projection setting the characters in the context of the era. The characters from act one can then also have echoes within the other characters that the actor doubles up with later. I get what you are saying - and yes, I agree, it can be made to work - but in order to get the integration you seek, you have to work slightly against the script which seems disjointed for some purpose (that is hard to discern on the the page) And I also agree that it seems now to be a lot more about class than anything else. It is a curious script - which is why it is taught in schools and colleges. Probably more to write about than enjoy... |
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Post by MrsCondomine on Mar 28, 2019 16:27:33 GMT
(I have no idea how to embed tweets, soz)
LOOOL
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Post by drmaplewood on Mar 28, 2019 20:07:24 GMT
I saw it a few years ago at Trafalgar Studios (with Surabne Jones) and really it feels like 2 plays just shoved together to make a whole one to justify the ticket price. I’d quite like to revisit it though, so will check this out as I suspect the NT version has quite a different feel. I saw that production too and loved it (8 years ago, gulp!) - heard nothing but bad about this one so far, though. |
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Top Girls
Mar 28, 2019 22:14:04 GMT
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Post by winonaforever on Mar 28, 2019 22:14:04 GMT
Hmm, I'm going to see this in a few weeks. I wasn't looking forward to it much before, but now I'm REALLY not looking forward to it!
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Post by david on Mar 28, 2019 22:23:34 GMT
I’m watching this as part of an NT double show day on Saturday (Downstate is the matinee show). I’ll go in with an open mind when I watch this after reading these posts.
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Post by vickster51 on Mar 28, 2019 22:43:23 GMT
I was there tonight. I left at the interval, but I wanted to leave after 15 minutes and was bitter that the row behind me in the circle was quite empty so I could have there. That first scene is just too all over the place. All the women dressed up as historical people, taking about some pretty miserable stuff, plus all the weird pope stuff. I just didn’t get it and it lost me. Two escaped behind me. After 45 mins, I am sure the whole circle clapped after scene one thinking it was the interval. When I realised I’d missed the chance to flee in the dark my heart sank. That was only made worse when two further in to my row made a break for it. Had it been quick grabbing my stuff I’d have fled too. But no, I was trapped until 1 hour 40 mins in. It’s only meant to be 2 hours 25! I admit the office scene was better than the first two, but I genuinely had no desire to see what happened next.
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Top Girls
Mar 29, 2019 7:48:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 7:48:42 GMT
It's a dreadful play, I don't know why it's regarded as a classic. It might have had something to say in the 80s but it's just a bad period piece now.
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Post by winonaforever on Mar 29, 2019 14:27:00 GMT
I don't know why I'm laughing reading this thread, I've got to sit through it in a couple of months! Maybe I'm hysterical!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2019 14:37:04 GMT
Forewarned is forearmed. If you're expecting the worst, you'll either get exactly what you're expecting or you'll be pleasantly surprised. Failing that, at least you know that if you want to escape after that first scene, you'll need to be really quick off the mark!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 29, 2019 14:53:47 GMT
The photos posted on WOS make it look a very opulent production - lots of cash splashed on the set and costumes
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Post by winonaforever on Mar 29, 2019 15:34:19 GMT
Forewarned is forearmed. If you're expecting the worst, you'll either get exactly what you're expecting or you'll be pleasantly surprised. Failing that, at least you know that if you want to escape after that first scene, you'll need to be really quick off the mark! Hey, you never know, I might love it and come on here singing its praises! I DID enjoy Julie at the Olivier! |
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Post by Snciole on Mar 29, 2019 16:59:06 GMT
I saw it a few years ago at Trafalgar Studios (with Surabne Jones) and really it feels like 2 plays just shoved together to make a whole one to justify the ticket price. I’d quite like to revisit it though, so will check this out as I suspect the NT version has quite a different feel. I saw that production too and loved it (8 years ago, gulp!) - heard nothing but bad about this one so far, though. I think Suranne Jones really proved herself as more than a soap actress (soap actors and actresses work damn hard though, as most people know) but I can see why people are repelled by this. Churchill is not that accessible and the decision to have separate actors in the historical and modern scenes is baffling. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 29, 2019 17:07:57 GMT
The whole thing is baffling, Lyndsey Turner is a baffling director alright.
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Post by learfan on Mar 29, 2019 18:04:40 GMT
It's a dreadful play, I don't know why it's regarded as a classic. It might have had something to say in the 80s but it's just a bad period piece now. Churchill leaves me cold. Was never going to see this. She is one of those playwrights whose work i avoid. Life is too short. This sounds like another winner from Norris. |
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Post by mallardo on Mar 29, 2019 18:23:24 GMT
It's a dreadful play, I don't know why it's regarded as a classic. It might have had something to say in the 80s but it's just a bad period piece now. Churchill leaves me cold. Was never going to see this. She is one of those playwrights whose work i avoid. Life is too short. This sounds like another winner from Norris.
Cloud 9 is a terrific play (IMO) which makes its points and is quite funny in doing so. But then I also enjoyed Top Girls when I saw it in a very good production at the Trafalgar Studios a few years ago.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 29, 2019 18:47:25 GMT
Perhaps we can get them to do a mash up with a musical - Top Mean Girls...
Might be more fun?
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Top Girls
Mar 29, 2019 20:25:36 GMT
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Post by winonaforever on Mar 29, 2019 20:25:36 GMT
I DID enjoy Julie at the Olivier Me too - lucky the circle bar area is really quiet during the show... er, sorry, the play, the play... and wasn't Julie in the Lyttelton? Lol, yes probably . I just remember it was the National! |
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