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Post by crowblack on Sept 9, 2018 11:27:46 GMT
I saw it yesterday evening, and it was a Curate's Egg for me. There were some strong moments and great performances, but it was a bit of a mess, so many characters but not really the chance to give much depth to them or maintain story arcs. There were points where I thought, ah, we're drawing things to a close, or into some sort of shape, but then it didn't. 1hr45 felt much longer. Maybe it would have resonated more if I'd been that sort of teenager but I wasn't - polar opposite. The pussy stuff, while I'm glad it riles Mr Letts, just made me think of a female version of Fight Club or Adrian Mole measuring his thing, and I'm not sure that's progress.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 22:55:53 GMT
This is the best thing I have seen all year - so far. What a clever, brilliant script. I loved the way the kids, because they are not yet women, defy and resist the constraints that we the audience know may shackle them in the future - at least in their own minds. I also really appreciated the way the play dealt with the idea of desire and kept denying our own desires and expectations. For example, we might expect to see kids with perfect bodies contorting those bodies and leaping through the air etc but we were refused that particular pleasure and made to question why we want to see young women represented in such a way. For me it also conjured the limited ways in which women can succeed and the challenges they face when they do. The use of older actors meant that we were never fully seduced into the girls’ world. In my mind this deserved all its accolades.
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Post by popcultureboy on Sept 11, 2018 7:00:54 GMT
I saw this last night and despite the reviews, I have such an allergy to adults playing young that I was expecting to hate it. I even contemplated returning my tickets. But I didn't. I went. And I was completely floored by how much I loved it. Great performances and the writing, the writing. How completely perfectly it nailed being a teenager and being an adult looking back on your crazy teenage self. The high hopes, the shattered dreams, the reality behind the facade we show the world all the time. It's only 100 minutes and it's easy to dismiss this as being slight, but it packs more in to that 100 minutes than some plays manage in twice that time. Far deeper and more moving than you expect it to be, but also hysterically funny and silly in places. Just like real life. Which is the point, no?
Oh, and this song? I can NOT get enough:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 15:28:53 GMT
I saw it yesterday evening, and it was a Curate's Egg for me. There were some strong moments and great performances, but it was a bit of a mess, so many characters but not really the chance to give much depth to them or maintain story arcs. There were points where I thought, ah, we're drawing things to a close, or into some sort of shape, but then it didn't. 1hr45 felt much longer. Maybe it would have resonated more if I'd been that sort of teenager but I wasn't - polar opposite. The pussy stuff, while I'm glad it riles Mr Letts, just made me think of a female version of Fight Club or Adrian Mole measuring his thing, and I'm not sure that's progress. I'd say this was pretty close to my experience too. I really valued some aspects of it, the script raises really interesting points in sometimes interesting ways. And I cannot fault a single performance. But I haven't had that 'oh my god it's brilliant' experience I now feel I was 'supposed' to have? interestingly I predicted that, and said on the way home 'this will be one that makes me think I'm stupid for not loving' and that's a horrid feeling to come out of a show with really. The idea that you aren't quite clever enough so it's not for you. So my memory of it is less kind for that reason. And likewise, while I'm no QL, I didn't personally feel the Pussy shouting was particularly feminist. But all power to the women who found it empowering. |
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Post by Steve on Sept 11, 2018 15:45:51 GMT
I loved the way the kids, because they are not yet women, defy and resist the constraints that we the audience know may shackle them in the future I loved that too. In fact, I loved this show.
Some spoilers follow. . .
It's not even only about women. It's about everybody, because the key conflict, embodied by the drama between Ria Zmitrowicz's Zuzu and Karla Crome's Amina, is essentially one of Darwinian natural selection, being better than everyone else, versus society, being a cooperative member of a group.
I didn't mind the lackadaisical Altmanesque approach to storytelling at all, with all it's different characters and plot threads, all of which illustrated how damn hard growing up can be, how much pressure authority (Brendan Cowell's brainwashed brainwashing dance teacher, Pat, who appropriately only makes pat statements) puts on socializing individuals out of socializing, to compete, instead.
The play seemed very insightful about the damage done to social beings, early, when they are vulnerable, encouraged to compete against their friends, and it was particularly insightful as to how self-hatred and disconnection is the end result of this drive to productivity.
Ria Zmitrowicz, who I've been impressed with before, here really excelled herself, embodying youth, hope, curiosity, sweetness, ambition, tenderness, and of course, oodles of self-loathing.
For me, who sees many well-made, well-structured dramatic plays in a year, it was wonderful to see something slower, something more reflective, something ultimately more meaningful to where we are now.
4 stars.  |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 16:26:08 GMT
Ria Zmitrowicz, who I've been impressed with before, here really excelled herself, embodying youth, hope, curiosity, sweetness, ambition, tenderness, and of course, oodles of self-loathing. Yes, she's great - and one of the reasons I booked! The themes and, particularly, the mirrored staging, were similar to the same director's Circle, Mirror, Transformation in Manchester a few months ago and I suppose I couldn't help comparing the two, which may be a bit unfair, as one's about adults and more elegantly structured reflecting their awkward social codes, while this, I suppose, is more like a teenager's chaotic bedroom. I'm glad I saw it, and I did buy the text straight afterwards because there were parts I really loved. |
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Post by n1david on Sept 11, 2018 16:34:43 GMT
@emicardiff is definitely closest to my perspective - there was a lot I enjoyed about this, I thought some of the performances were great, but ultimately I didn't feel that it added up to anything really significant for me. I couldn't connect the stories being told on stage with recollections of my childhood. Steve has been wonderfully eloquent about the show but his perspective on the show was one that I didn't see at all. I wonder if it's because childhoods are not universal - I was not a particularly social child, and didn't compete in competitions like these - my competition was in the classroom where, perhaps, the criteria are more objective than in the world of competitive dance. I also wasn't a very happy child some of the time, and maybe there are aspects of my childhood I continue not to address. After the show I also considered if I didn't connect with it because I'm male, but others posting here disprove that theory. So put me in the camp of admiring or respecting without loving, without quite knowing why. One of the joys of this board is the (largely) constructive and involved debate about shows about which we differ - I was struck by recent discussion on The Lehman Trilogy, which I loved but which others evidently loathed, and then there's this which has equally divided opinion. This is one of those plays I'm glad I saw even if I didn't get as much out of it as others. For me, a solid 3. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 16:46:38 GMT
Good point @n1david a friend of mine who also loved it is American, and was involved in similar pursuits. I however quit dance and gymnastics very quickly realising I had no talent for that sort of thing. I was also a very introverted teen (and adult) so didn't have those kind of pack/team interactions, instead having a couple of close friends.
And, something I've been afraid to admit, that I see a lot of my female friends saying, is that actually a lot of the stuff about 'being a woman' didn't resonate, or move me, because I don't feel like my experiences as a woman/girl were in that play. It doesn't make it wrong, or indeed me wrong, because clearly it does chime with many others.
However I do feel a little more, dare I say heart to it, and a little less feeling intellectualised at might have bridged that gap?
Finally though, I can't neglect that I saw it after seeing Fun Home and Eugenius. Fun Home moved me in a way few other things have, and Eugenius filled me with such utter silly joy that again few other things do. After that, Dance Nation was (through nobody's fault) not the best sequel. And proving as well that as much as we might want to think otherwise the circumstances in which we see a piece affects our view of it. (also frankly my back was killing me an hour in thanks to the seat I was in which also did not endear me to anyone)
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Post by stevemar on Sept 11, 2018 16:57:08 GMT
Interesting views here - as per my post, I didn’t connect with this at all. I originally was going to post/question that perhaps this was because I am a man? Well, I think the play has connected well with some women and potentially less so with men. Yes, we have all gone through adolescence, but still it didn’t reasonate with me.
Also, as Emi and N1David have pointed out, I never really felt part of the “pack” and any sports or team based skills filled me with horror! They often still do.
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Post by wannabedirector on Sept 11, 2018 21:42:01 GMT
Hey, I’m a long time reader but never posted before, yet something about this has sort of driven me to.
I quite enjoyed this after seeing it tonight, had some friends recommend it to me while it was in previews so I decided to give it a go (I also see most things at the Almeida and really enjoyed Barbershop Chronicles from the same director so those played a part as well). Admittedly I have a sister of around the age that the characters in the play are, so the experiences sort of indirectly resonated with me as I’ve seen her go through the same type of stuff. I also have a bit of a soft spot for the trashy dance based reality TV that Dance Nation seems to have taken some of its inspiration from.
I found it to be a good evening on the whole, the play is witty but also quite eye opening as to what girls of that age talk about. When I was a lad that age it was mainly football and music, never really a huge amount on the changes we were all going through at the time. That being said, I do feel that there are some bits that definitely need tightening, and to some extent I didn’t really get to feel for all the characters. The monologues helped rectify that to some extent but I didn’t fully.
Overall I’d probably recommend, I laughed quite a bit, but I don’t think it’s one I’ll be thinking about for a while, which is something that I know a few people are.
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Post by catcat100 on Sept 12, 2018 0:42:03 GMT
A couple of thoughts I had with this:
The individual monologues were excellent in getting across how each individual was experiencing growing up. Each one was different, had different problems, had things happening at different times. Just like in 'Absolute Hell' where every one of the players had their own hell, so each one of the players here has their own growing up.
Think this is why people (including me) can't connect with everything. We simply didn't have or see those issues or they just weren't issues for us.
I liked the different ages playing the children. Think it brought out the fact that some of these problems don't stop just because you grow up, they still rear their heads into adulthood.
Its been a good week and a bit since i saw this and the end still doesn't fit. It flips too much, in too short a time from the play to perhaps protest.
I'm erring between 3 and 3.5 stars
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Post by popcultureboy on Sept 15, 2018 0:08:12 GMT
Everyone saying they can't relate to the piece because they didn't dance or do sports growing up, honestly, were you paying attention to Nancy Crane? Her scene where she, as her teenage self, talks about being able to fly and float, to then deliver her monologue about how as an adult she forgot all about that? EVERYONE can relate to that sense of growing up, growing old, dreams dying and so on. No? For me, THAT is what the piece 100% nailed throughout. It used this dance troupe of 11-13 year olds to talk about the universal sadness of growing up and honestly I've not related more to a piece of theatre in years.
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Post by n1david on Sept 15, 2018 7:52:28 GMT
EVERYONE can relate to that sense of growing up, growing old, dreams dying and so on. No? Not from this play, no. But I’m glad you got so much out of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 8:10:06 GMT
EVERYONE can relate to that sense of growing up, growing old, dreams dying and so on. No? Not from this play, no. But I’m glad you got so much out of it. Exactly that: the themes are universal yes, and I understood and recognised them. But this play didn’t resonate emotionally for me like it did some. Similarly one could say Fun Home (for the sake of argument as I saw it the same weekend) has “universal” themes: growing up, being who you are, grief etc but a glance at that thread says that didn’t resonate with everyone. Just because it’s about a thing everyone experiences doesn’t mean the way it’s expressed resonates with everyone. And that’s fine. That said I’ve never met an alien but Eugenius spoke to my very soul so... |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 15, 2018 15:04:16 GMT
It used this dance troupe of 11-13 year olds to talk about the universal sadness of growing up Yes, those, and several other parts did resonate - and the friends growing apart, though the group here is portrayed as competitive from the off. I think it's the competitive aspect that I couldn't relate to: I was in the group of kids at school who sat at the back and read books or drew and contrived to skive off anything like sport. Also, I think the pussy stuff probably has more resonance to a younger generation where marketing/easily available porn has made them more insecure about it (like Teen Vogue's recent "get your best summer vagina ever" piece!). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 15:45:44 GMT
Personally, i didn’t think I was expected to relate to the girls per se. I thought the writer had simply found a dramatic language to dramatise the ferocity of puberty, some of the strange thoughts kids have about being indestructible and powerful as well as their fantasies about conquering the world. That alongside their incredible fragility. I thought I was being given the opportunity to see childhood in a different way. The monologues were like unsung songs and in that way the play - for me - was like an anti-musical, re-figuring the tropes of the genre. My only wish was that the two leads were played by actors in their sixties or seventies as the current leads look a bit too close in age to their characters so you don’t so much get that sense of what they will become.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 15, 2018 15:51:32 GMT
My only wish was that the two leads were played by actors in their sixties or seventies I think I'd have preferred it the other way around - I liked the vulnerability of the young actresses. I get what it was saying with the mixture of ages, but it didn't work on stage for me - maybe it would have done if all the adult actresses had been unfamiliar faces. |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 16, 2018 8:50:43 GMT
talks about being able to fly and float, to then deliver her monologue about how as an adult she forgot all about that? I think that's where the play should have ended - it seemed the natural point, with the shattered Zuzu pondering her future and that flight speech that projected ambiguously upwards and out. The scenes afterwards - and there were still quite a few - seemed rather superfluous. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2018 9:56:17 GMT
This is the first time I have come across this writer’s work and I am keen to read/see more. Many of you spoke about Mirror Circle Transformation (?) and I am intrigued to find out what that was about.
Just googled that play to discover it was by Annie Baker. Has anyone seen other works by Claire Barron?
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Post by crowblack on Sept 16, 2018 10:47:28 GMT
Yes, I mentioned it because it was the same director, similar themes of self-exploration through movement, though with a group of adults, and similar set, with a row of mirrors along the back. |
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Post by bellboard27 on Sept 22, 2018 16:29:00 GMT
Having read comments here, I went in with some trepidation. Shouldn’t have worried. This gripped me from start to finish. The time rushed by. Funny and moving and great commitment from the cast - I loved it.
I did worry about how many young (10 years and younger) were in. I suspect some embarrassed parents! I can see how a play about children learning to dance might seem like children are a target audience (if you don’t read the website in detail)!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 17:46:24 GMT
I was also at the matinee and thought the same about the large number of younger children. Don't these parents read?!?
Anyway, apart from worrying a bit about how they'd take it I thought this was great. My dancing days may well be behind me but, seeing an embarrassing amount of me in the Dance teacher and having worked many times with performers of the age portrayed, I thought it captured the whole milieu wonderfully. Two contemporary American plays that I liked in the same year, it's a miracle!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 18:07:17 GMT
I was also at the matinee and thought the same about the large number of younger children. Don't these parents read?!? Anyway, apart from worrying a bit about how they'd take it I thought this was great. My dancing days may well be behind me but, seeing an embarrassing amount of me in the Dance teacher and having worked many times with performers of the age portrayed, I thought it captured the whole milieu wonderfully. Two contemporary American plays that I liked in the same year, it's a miracle! Pleased that we’ve agreed about at least one show this year, Cardinal. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 15:39:33 GMT
Surprised to find I quite enjoyed this!
There were some very young kids in today as well. I had a look at the website afterwards to see what indication is given of the nature of the content - I can’t see anything. All it says is
Which is vague enough it could be describing Bring It On. Really needed some kind of content warning I think
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Post by n1david on Sept 29, 2018 18:41:19 GMT
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