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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 23:08:36 GMT
😂😂😂😂 we all thought this was just gonna be a nice small production, would come and go, and do it's thing. And here we are. She’s an actress, her job is to act out a character NOT be a spokesperson for a community. If she holds those views ( I don’t agree with them ) she can as long as she doesn’t incite hate or violence! She has an opinion, get over it. an opinion that can be taken by many as hate and disrespect, and by the looks of social media and the backlash, it's upset alot of people and caused many offence, not just those in the LGBT+ Community, but also our allies. and remember, a former person who has worked with her has said several team members felt uncomfortable with her views and opinions, so it has hurt people who have had interaction with her, not just those of us who are offended or upset from an outside perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 23:10:11 GMT
I can sort of sympathise with kulen 's post until the "get over it" part. Homophobia isn't like being afraid of spiders, it's absolutely a harmful mindset that has led to direct emotional and physical harm of gay people, up to and including their murder. If you're of the viewpoint that an actor doesn't have to agree with the role they're portraying, that's one thing, but telling people to "get over it" about homophobia is ... nah. Homophobia is intolerance and the world would be better off without it. And people who have been affected by it have every right to say "hey, this hurts me" and not be told that they should simply "get over it". They absolutely don't have to, and no one should be telling them to.
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Post by Seriously on Mar 17, 2019 23:31:12 GMT
Matthew, Chapter 22
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
But not gays, obvs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 0:04:57 GMT
Matthew, Chapter 22 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. But not gays, obvs. Yes, Neighbour. But if they live in a different town or city its ok to hate them. Perhaps they've been taking these commandments too literally.
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Post by beatrice on Mar 18, 2019 0:13:31 GMT
Matthew, Chapter 22 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. But not gays, obvs. Yes, Neighbour. But if they live in a different town or city its ok to hate them. Perhaps they've been taking these commandments too literally. That's a translation thing, though. The swedish version would be more accurately translated as "love thy fellow (human) as thyself - which makes more sense, put together with all the other stuff Jesus said
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Post by sf on Mar 18, 2019 0:18:10 GMT
😂😂😂😂 we all thought this was just gonna be a nice small production, would come and go, and do it's thing. And here we are. She’s an actress, her job is to act out a character NOT be a spokesperson for a community. If she holds those views ( I don’t agree with them ) she can as long as she doesn’t incite hate or violence! She has an opinion, get over it.
She has an opinion, and she's entitled to hold whatever opinion she chooses, but the way this has come to light suggests she's brought that opinion into her workplace(s), probably more than once, in ways that made people feel uncomfortable.
And beyond that - I saw Ragtime, and she was the most memorable thing in it. She is phenomenally talented, but phenomenal talent is not always accompanied by intelligence or grace or kindness, and it's very, very easy these days for people to dig a great big pit for themselves on social media.
Her father sounds like a real piece of work.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 0:20:14 GMT
I wanna meet her Dad.
"Hey girl, whats good!" *tongue pop* *booty pop* *into splits* *sashay away*
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Post by mistressjojo on Mar 18, 2019 1:52:23 GMT
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here, and ask if there is any chance this young woman has no idea that the story has a gay storyline?
I know, I know, everyone here thinks it's obvious, but I took a quick poll around my office and the few who actually had seen the film had no idea. And that's because Spielberg later admitted he took out 99% of the lesbian story so he could get it past the censors at the time. I think all you really see is a kiss.
Not excusing her words, but maybe she really is clueless?
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Post by sf on Mar 18, 2019 1:57:13 GMT
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here, and ask if there is any chance this young woman has no idea that the story has a gay storyline? I know, I know, everyone here thinks it's obvious, but I took a quick poll around my office and the few who actually had seen the film had no idea. And that's because Spielberg later admitted he took out 99% of the lesbian story so he could get it past the censors at the time. I think all you really see is a kiss. Not excusing her words, but maybe she really is clueless?
She played Nettie in a concert production of the show in 2017, so one would hope the penny has already dropped about that aspect of the plot.
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Post by luvvie23 on Mar 18, 2019 3:01:02 GMT
I hear you. It’s called freedom of speech. She is allowed to have her beliefs. But when you hear that she is making fellow actors feel uncomfortable backstage and she won’t take part in certain events that support LGBTQ charities or Pride..... Musical theatre is definitely not for Seyi! Celie is an iconic part that tells a story of the black queer female experience. Seyi seems like a career opportunist who wants to follow the likes of Cynthia Erico- who went on to huge huge success after playing this dream of a role. Well go and play another iconic musical theatre role that won’t make gay audience members and straight allies rage whilst you fake your way to the top. X
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Post by apubleed on Mar 18, 2019 4:36:01 GMT
Would it even be legal for them to fire her for this reason? Given religion is protected in these contexts. I wonder if they are trying to convince her to resign. Such a mess!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 8:20:31 GMT
For one smiling day to be free...
(not sure I like the gospel arrangement - but it felt appropriate for this current discussion)
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Post by wickedgrin on Mar 18, 2019 9:18:39 GMT
A song that I am very familiar with but never realised how pertinent the lyrics were to a gay relationship! Bravo Oscar Hammerstein. He was also responsible for the lyrics of You've Got to be Carefully Taught from South Pacific - also pertinent to this discussion. She was clearly indoctrinated by her Father from a young age. I am deeply sad for her.....
You've got to be taught to hate and fear, You've got to be taught from year to year, It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear It's got to be carefully taught.
You've to be taught to be afraid Of people who's eyes are oddly made, And people who's skin is a different shade. You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late, Before you are six or seven or eight, To hate all the people your relatives hate. You've got to be carefully taught.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 9:37:01 GMT
😂😂😂😂 we all thought this was just gonna be a nice small production, would come and go, and do it's thing. And here we are. She’s an actress, her job is to act out a character NOT be a spokesperson for a community. If she holds those views ( I don’t agree with them ) she can as long as she doesn’t incite hate or violence! She has an opinion, get over it. Firstly, no we will not just 'get over' homophobia something which at 'best' makes people's lives difficult every single day, hiding their identities from friends, families, co-workers etc. Which makes them miserable, makes them feel shame and gives them all manner of mental health issues because of the problem other people have. At worst it escalates into violence and murder. So no we will not 'get over it' She is entitled to her religous beliefs of course, but likewise we (atheists, other religions and other Christians alike) are allowed to criticise said views and express how we don't agree with them. And the point being that if homosexuality is so abhorrent to her and to her religious beliefs, she should not accept the show. I can't think of a good example but I'm sure there are examples of other performers quietly not going for roles in shows that are at odds with their beliefs.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 9:45:18 GMT
Would it even be legal for them to fire her for this reason? Given religion is protected in these contexts. I wonder if they are trying to convince her to resign. Such a mess! So is sexual orientation, so it would be an interesting case. From memory, the religious right are not having the easiest time discriminating against same-sex couples here (that bakery in NI) but it would be a employment law case rather than statutory rights. I’d love it if anyone with more legal knowledge could chime in. (For the avoidance of doubt, I think she should step down or be sacked. I’d prefer the latter. She should never have taken the role, and I am surprised that her faith is so flexible as to allow her to do it. She’s a hypocrite for sure.)
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 9:53:26 GMT
And the point being that if homosexuality is so abhorrent to her and to her religious beliefs, she should not accept the show. I can't think of a good example but I'm sure there are examples of other performers quietly not going for roles in shows that are at odds with their beliefs. A friend of mine was offered the role of Britten in a production of The Habit of Art. He turned it down because it was being staged in a church and he felt unable to be involved with a play dealing with such open discussions of sex and sexuality. Not because he had an issue with them per se - but that he felt deeply uncomfortable about such matters being staged in the church. The church in question was sent the script and they had no issues. He didn't make a fuss. He just quietly turned down the role. I can't say I agree with his position - but he handled things with discretion and no-one thought badly of him for it.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 10:23:01 GMT
Would it even be legal for them to fire her for this reason? Given religion is protected in these contexts. So is sexual orientation, so it would be an interesting case. And religion is a choice, sexual orientation is not. We really need to take a closer look at how far we are willing to go to let religion ruin lives, legally. Of course it is very difficult to put restrictions on brainwashing your children or restrictions on how judgemental you can teach them to be, backed up by religion, so not even legitimate reasons, but a good start would be to ban religion from schools, and develop a lesson plan where kids are taught about all sides of this problem. That way they will be less world alienated in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 10:26:10 GMT
If her contract was terminated because of it, I'd guess she'd claim that it was because of religious beliefs which are a protected characteristic and there is no legal minimum length of service to be worked for a claim of that nature to be brought against an employer, so therefore it would clearly be discrimination. A tribunal might look at it and say that she had a responsibility in some way because "why would she accept a job that is clearly in violation of those views" and perhaps find in her favour but not give an award but that's not a guarantee.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 10:35:19 GMT
The production will be forever tainted if she is permitted to remain part of it.
If I were in a cast with a clear homophobe, I would make it clear that the producers had a duty to protect me. The only way to do that is to remove the bigot from the cast.
No amount of apology to put this right. She needs to demonstrate - over a period of time - that she has changed. It is clear from the report of her behaviour last year that she has not yet started on that journey. She may be capable of it - or she may not.
But for now, it is inappropriate for her to remain part of this production.
If we don't see her removal, then the two theatres, their legal teams and production teams are holding the LGBT+ community in contempt and we should call them out very loudly indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 10:37:32 GMT
I am not a lawyer, but merely *being* a protected class does not mean you're safe from ever being disciplined or fired or whathaveyou, it's only if people act against you *because* of your protected class.
If, for example, she's in the rehearsal room and isn't necessarily friendly to any gay members of the cast or crew but does her job as required and interacts with them cordially and professionally as needed and then is fired, she could probably make a fairly strong case - especially with this publicity - that she's been let go because of her religious beliefs, and that's where the problem would arise.
If, however, she was in the rehearsal room and was actively mean to any gay cast or crew members, or refused to speak or listen to them, or loudly spoke at length about how abhorrent she found their mere presence, then I don't know if that fits the *legal* definition of a hostile work environment (it's more specific than the name makes it sound, apparently), but it would definitely be a situation where someone higher up the ladder should talk to her about acceptable workplace behaviour, explain that what she's doing is not it, and lay out that she needs to shape up or risk consequences, up to and including firing.
I'm not quite sure what differences there are between a more everyday working environment like an office and the world of performing arts; if the negative publicity ramps up then I wouldn't be surprised if they found a clause somewhere that allows someone to be fired for bringing the production into disrepute, but I think legally it would be less shaky if she were to have a serious conversation with whoever and then either apologise whole-heartedly (which doesn't seem likely based on recent reports) or step down. Firing is a bit much to hope for.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 10:51:36 GMT
She is discriminating and being mean to gay people (that also means her castmembers) by putting out a tweet like that and making public statements like this. That is discriminating behaviour that should not be accepted. The producers, if they were to fire her, are not judging her religion, but her behaviour. The fact that she hides behind what she has decided her god thinks is nobody's business. She chooses to not see herself as a person with responsibilities, but we do.
It would be a crazy world if discrimination is accepted/protected when it comes from religion as if it deserves the same rights as protection of sexual orientation.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 10:51:52 GMT
An apology is not even close to being sufficient in this situation. She needs to demonstrate clearly that she is not a bigot. An apology is just words - actions are what are needed.
If she did hide to avoid being part of a Pride video, then she has already demonstrated what she has chosen to believe.
There is nothing she can say right now to put this right - other than 'For the good of the production, I am resigning and will be actively working to become a better person'
If she is not prepared to do that, then someone else has to act to remove her from the production.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 10:59:58 GMT
What you do in your free time is different from what you do in the workplace though, and although there are situations where one's out-of-work behaviour is serious enough to reflect poorly enough on your employer that one could be fired for it (and this *could* fall under that banner but also it might not), it's still legally shaky ground if an employee is able to personally hold bigoted opinions but also able to leave them out of the workplace and perform their job with 100% professionalism.
For clarity, I agree that she's REALLY picked the wrong career (like pharmacists who don't believe in birth control) and it would be for the good of the production and maybe even her own personal development if she were to graciously step down and do some serious soul-searching, I just don't know if "FIRE HER" is as easy a solution as the internet hordes seem to think it is.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 11:01:58 GMT
If her contract was terminated because of it, I'd guess she'd claim that it was because of religious beliefs Would any judge really accept that? It's amazing how far people can go with religion. First they use it to judge an entire group, and in the next moment they completely turn it around and use it to play the victim role, in order to get what they want. Would the legal system really put religion above actions?
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Post by HereForTheatre on Mar 18, 2019 11:05:30 GMT
Well i hope we hear today what's happening. They have had the weekend, they need to speak out now. Leaving it longer to fester before something happens is not the one.
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