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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 21, 2018 21:55:41 GMT
So saw Alison Bechdel biographical musical Fun Home tonight, Alison happens to be a cartoonist and this got me thinking are cartoons relevant in today’s age?
In the old days you used to have comics for children that were lighthearted, with such stuff as Desperate Dan in the Beano which were fun and which culmulated every Christmas in an annual, even an adults comic came out called the Viz with suicidal Sid. Then you had cartoons in Newspapers which were away of carrying a serious message in a light hearted way, theatre also does this very well. All what I see of cartoons now is in the Evening Standard with George Osbourne having a poke at Theresa May. Towards the back you of the paper you had fun cartoons such as Striker.
Then coming full circle the New York Times which had a famous theatrical cartoonist, who had the honour of having a theatre name after him on Broadway and that is Al Hirschfeld. Who hasn’t really been replaced.
I have never really been a fan of the genre, but I am very curious to know if there’s is such an avid following? Has this artform now been replaced by the fandangled internet like so much a good example would be the Encyclopedia Britannia That has been replaced by the web. So has cartoons had their day?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 22:05:04 GMT
These days many cartoonists seem to have an Internet presence but also have their work syndicated in a number of printed publications. I don't know for sure but I get the impression that the decline in print circulation means that it's hard to make a living from it unless your work is spread across multiple channels.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 21, 2018 23:04:05 GMT
famous theatrical cartoonis It's a bit late so I'll take up this thread in the morning - flying visit to London for Fun Home, then my usual trip to Gosh Comics in Soho on the walk back to Euston... |
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Post by viserys on Jul 22, 2018 8:03:48 GMT
There is a huge difference between "cartoons" - the kind of short light-hearted comic strip that's a staple of many newspapers - and "graphic novels" which seem to have grown in popularity in the last few decades. Graphic Novels seem to be more popular and traditional in certain countries than in others - the USA with their superhero stuff for one, Japan with their mangas and France/Belgium with their bandes dessinées.
Personally I'm a fan of the latter. There's old stuff like Tintin (which is certainly questionable in parts these days) which wakened an interest in the world when reading about his many adventures abroad and Asterix that probably did an awful lot to get kids interest in ancient history and even Latin. But there's also so much great "adult" stuff out there, such as Guy Delisle's "Chronicles of Jerusalem" and Marjane Satrapi's "Persepolis" (which was turned into a great film).
I have only a very passing knowledge/interest in Japanese manga as it all seems way too challenging to get into and I really have no time for the American superhero stuff that blights the cinemas as well, although I'd be happy to hear recommendations for more serious mature stuff like Alison Bechdel's "Fun Home". I took an interest in her when I first read about the "Bechdel test" some years ago, which finally put in words what I've so often felt about movies (and also musicals) and the depiction of females.
While it may be true that the classic short comic strip is in decline due to the general decline of print, I think graphic novels are actually growing a lot in popularity world wide.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 8:17:12 GMT
Two shows spring to mind: I saw Andy Capp, the musical in the early 80s as I liked Alan Price. Tom Courtney was in it. And the Young Vic did Tintin as their Christmas show (but at the Barbican) with Russell Tovey. I think it was the Tibet story. I liked the latter very much...
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Post by viserys on Jul 22, 2018 8:22:22 GMT
The Belgians did a fairly decent musical "Tintin et le temple du soleil / Kuifje en de Zonnetempel" years ago, which was very enjoyable. I'm surprised it was never revived or picked up abroad considering that he's very well-known abroad, too. I did see Spiderman on Broadway too  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 8:33:55 GMT
There’s “You’re a good man, Charlie Brown” and “Snoopy The Musical” based on Peanuts
Also of course Annie, The Addams Family and Spiderman
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 8:34:06 GMT
I have a very passing knowledge of graphic novels from teaching them as part of an 'Introduction to Literature' for undergrads. But what I did learn from that was fascinating and if I had the time I'd have continued to read around in that genre....as with everything one day etc.
There's a real spectrum from the more 'entertainment' end, which are I guess the equivalent of a best selling novel- can have serious themes and important issues but predominately for enjoyment. Through to more serious, political etc etc.
A great favourite of mine was Art Spiegelman's work-best known for Maus, his account of his parent's experience in the Holocaust, and also his 'In the Shadow of No Towers' which I'd stick my neck out as the best 9/11 response I've read. His work also is testament to the use of 'cartoons' as political statements.
Also used to teach Coraline, which confirmed that graphic novels, as with any other medium are only as good as how much you 'click' with an author and try as I might I don't click with Gaimen in word or picture.
ETA amusingly, as a partial film student at undergrad I knew of the Bechtel test from a fairly young age, but it took a shamefully long time for me to realise, as theatre person, that it was one and the same person who wrote Fun Home...
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Post by crowblack on Jul 22, 2018 9:01:19 GMT
the classic short comic strip is in decline due to the general decline of print There are a lot of them online, cartoonists and illustrators publishing web cartoons of the traditional three panel type on various blog sites, sometimes whole web comics. Some of them move into publishing, children's books etc.. A lot of bios in the graphic novels I pick up in comic and bookshops say the creator also works on the teams of various TV shows: there is, as everyone has noted, an awful lot of TV these days which is a hungry mouth to feed and I do get the feeling comics are now a side-project for many creators. They're also a hunting ground for 'mainstream' TV and film beyond the obvious Marvel/DC 'franchises', with The End of the F-ing World, My Friend Dahmer, The Death of Stalin (Iannucci gets the credit and I like his stuff but if you read the original comic, a hell of a lot of it is already in there) etc. |
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Post by viserys on Jul 22, 2018 9:05:20 GMT
beyond the obvious Marvel/DC 'franchises', with The End of the F-ing World, My Friend Dahmer, The Death of Stalin (Iannucci gets the credit and I like his stuff but if you read the original comic, a hell of a lot of it is already in there) etc. I had no idea any of those were based on graphic novels - I LOVED The End of the F-Ing World on Netflix. I would welcome them using lesser known graphic novels as resources for movies/TV and also on stage for musicals where this is possible instead of the endlessly recycled tripe of the Marvel Universe or well-known movies uncreatively slapped onto the stage 1:1. PS: Sorry made a mess of quoting, can't fix it  |
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Post by Michael on Jul 22, 2018 9:26:39 GMT
Two favourite comic strips of mine are PhD Comics, phdcomics.com/, and FoxTrot, www.foxtrot.com/. While I don't have a PhD, I am very familiar with many of the problems depicted in the comics by friends in academia and of course from my own time back at university while writing my diploma thesis and tutoring students. And for the latter, Jason Fox, their yougest son, does remind me of myself. I also have all of the books both creators have released at home. And for the comic books, or bandes dessinées as mentioned by viserys, I am a huge fan of André Franquin, in particular his Gaston series. More of some kind of nostalgia, I also continue to collect the more recent Asterix and Lucky Luke comic even though I think they should have ended both series quite some time ago. That said, I just can't get used to Mangas and don't like their style at all. |
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Cartoons
Jul 24, 2018 4:56:23 GMT
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Post by bellboard27 on Jul 24, 2018 4:56:23 GMT
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Post by crowblack on Jul 24, 2018 8:44:28 GMT
Graphic novel nominated for the first time Hmm... about time, but shame it's one that illustration-wise it isn't visually interesting. It just looks like a film or TV storyboard, and a dull one at that. I saw some (female) cartoonists discussing that this week - "have any comics critics written about the way in which a lot of acclaimed male "literary" graphic novelists draw in a flat, affectless style?". For comics to crossover, do they have to be joyless? |
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