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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 23:14:42 GMT
Here is a summary of the reviews
For Saint George and The Dragon:
Guardian 3* Time Out 3* Telegraph 3* Independent 3* Broadway World 2* The Times 2* City AM 2* WOS 2* FT 2* The Stage 2* London Theatre 2* ES 2* Daily Mail 1*
And for The Wolf from the Door:
Express 3* FT 3* ES 3* WOS 3* Time Out 3* Telegraph 3* Observer 2* Guardian 2*
And now Pity:
Guardian 2* The Stage 2*
This sort of thing Just shows how stupid Idiotic And up its own arse The world of theatre is That people keep commissioning Talentless individuals To write utter sh*t
Three plays in a row None of which was a critical hit And which have all been progressively worse
WTF is going on in the minds Of producers And directors And actors
Pathetic
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 23:17:15 GMT
Oh but of course The forum is useless Twitter is much more useful For a guidance of quality 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Just watch this www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/pity-royal-court-opening-night-rory-mullarkey_47156.htmlHe can’t even string a coherent sentence together And what he says is meaningless Very indicative of his play writing Apparently Saint George Took him three years of full time Writing 🤣🤣🤣 You can do a degree in this time “I wrote a play for the National Theatre called Saint George and the Dragon which took three years of nearly full-time work and was the most wrenching, frightening, thrilling, exposing, exhausting thing I’ve ever been involved with and I feel bonded by fire and blood forever to everyone who made that show with me.” And MORE From Time Out: “Pity’ is a dark satire on the ever-present possibility of total societal collapse that also pokes mischievous holes in the very idea of conventional narratives, which Mullarkey doesn’t have a lot of time for. ‘When I’m watching a more conventional play, I can tell what’s going to happen five minutes in and then you’re sitting there for two hours,’ he says. ‘Our attention spans work a bit differently than perhaps they did in Ibsen’s day, so I wanted to write something that would feed that need for events that surprise, rather than being: no, theatre is a fenced off space where we have to build plays like we did 100 years ago.’ Most drama struggles to really convey the chaos of life. ‘Pity’ may actually exceed it” What annoys me the most Is the collusion of certain “media” To boost the already large egos of these talentless people Who have nothing to say And devoid of any real ideas Instead they are nurtured Why is failure and bad work like this rewarded In the arts sector
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 23:59:03 GMT
Oh but of course The forum is useless Twitter is much more useful For a guidance of quality So you didn’t understand the original point. To reiterate. Different people’s reviews are reflected in different places. Professional reviewers are no more useful than anyone who expresses an opinion, including people who post their opinions here or elsewhere. If you find a way that is useful to you, use it but it will be of little use to someone else. Giving a few comparisons, I agree with someone like Gardner, Lukowski, Hitchings probably more than half of the time. Some like Cavendish less than half. Others like Treneman and your good self and other hypernegative sources maybe ten to twenty percent. It’s not enough to be useful is it? Interesting in a way, but not useful. It’s not about this show or ‘being right’ it’s about the impossibility of measuring taste or the chance of finding it reflected. We find some people/places that prove better matches than others but that’s as good as we can manage.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 0:07:28 GMT
I think this writer is talented and interesting but his work has been exposed on the main stages too early in his career. St George might have been a hit in the Dorfman. The reviews for Pity could have been a bit more generous for the actors and designer. I wonder how much dramaturgical support Mullarkey has had. I also feel that he has written quite a lot in a short space of time which is why the quality of the thinking in the work is so poor. I blame the producers for this - they should be looking after young talent not damaging it. One consolation for Mullarkey may be that the young audience seemed to genuinely enjoy this so it may yet do well commercially. I hope so.
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Post by theatrelover123 on Jul 20, 2018 6:54:43 GMT
Looks like it is 1 and 2 stars across the board so far (apart from one 4 star review from The upcoming)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 6:58:39 GMT
Oh boo. See, I really liked Wolf From The Door, and there was enough about St George And The Dragon that I didn't hate, but it does sound like his work might be steadily decreasing in quality. Still, only a few days before I get to judge this for myself, at least the hard part will be over then.
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Post by dani on Jul 20, 2018 10:00:34 GMT
I think this writer is talented and interesting but his work has been exposed on the main stages too early in his career. St George might have been a hit in the Dorfman. The reviews for Pity could have been a bit more generous for the actors and designer. I wonder how much dramaturgical support Mullarkey has had. I also feel that he has written quite a lot in a short space of time which is why the quality of the thinking in the work is so poor. I blame the producers for this - they should be looking after young talent not damaging it. One consolation for Mullarkey may be that the young audience seemed to genuinely enjoy this so it may yet do well commercially. I hope so. He spent three years on Saint George and the Dragon, by his own account. That seems plenty of time to do some quality thinking. I haven't seen Pity, but I am curious about how heavily he has been promoted. You're right to say he has been exposed on the main stages, but so many writers, of all ages, would give their right arm for that exposure.
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Post by theatrelover123 on Jul 20, 2018 10:18:58 GMT
Some 3 and 4 star reviews coming through too so it's a proper Marmite show
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 11:00:42 GMT
I think this writer is talented and interesting but his work has been exposed on the main stages too early in his career. St George might have been a hit in the Dorfman. The reviews for Pity could have been a bit more generous for the actors and designer. I wonder how much dramaturgical support Mullarkey has had. I also feel that he has written quite a lot in a short space of time which is why the quality of the thinking in the work is so poor. I blame the producers for this - they should be looking after young talent not damaging it. One consolation for Mullarkey may be that the young audience seemed to genuinely enjoy this so it may yet do well commercially. I hope so. He spent three years on Saint George and the Dragon, by his own account. That seems plenty of time to do some quality thinking. I haven't seen Pity, but I am curious about how heavily he has been promoted. You're right to say he has been exposed on the main stages, but so many writers, of all ages, would give their right arm for that exposure. How much thought needs to go into a play differs from project to project. Michael Frayn says that he keeps ideas on file and that it may take many years before he is able to find a form that fits the subject matter. You get an indication of Mullarkey’s thinking and the work he has exposed himself to because the play references and satirises Handke, Kane, Kushner, Churchill...and perhaps many more. If a writer has several commissions then they sometimes have to deliver a play before it is fully formed. With a wild and wayward talent like Mullarkey’s I would guess that creatives at the RC leave him to do his own thing because they’re not up to giving him useful dramaturgical support. Despite my reservations I would have given this 4 stars but that would have been for the efforts of the other creatives involved - design, acting, directing. Much as I am interested in Mullarkey’s work I would give this script 1 star.
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Post by smallperson on Jul 20, 2018 11:29:27 GMT
I saw this last Friday with my young family (in their 20s not toddlers!) and I was pleasantly surprised that something I thought might be just too weird for any of us, young and (me) old alike, had us engaged with the messaging and caring about it enough to go the bar afterwards and argue about its merits and - to be sure - faults. It reminded me of Anthony Neilson's Wonderful World of Dissocia which for heaven's sake was 11 years ago and a reference totally lost on the children. The consensus was that it threw the kitchen sink at a load of cultural references, it moved on at a pace, didn't outstay its welcome and in the era of Trump and Brexit made us reflect on how mad the real world is and the world of theatre as a consequence can be. Family outings like this seldom disappoint because we are a gobby lot who like talking afterwards and this gave us all plenty to say. So for us a successful night out - star ratings don't really hack it because we all know how subjective they are but adding them up from the five of us for what it’s worth = 15*.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 12:15:38 GMT
Times 1* City AM 1* Guardian 2* Time Out 2* Independent 2* London Theatre 2* Broadway World 2* The Stage 2* WOS 3* Telegraph 4*
I would not really call that marmite I would call it bad reviews For the third play in a row for the playwright
As far as "reviews hub" and "the upcoming" are concerned I do not think they really count or register for anything anywhere Certainly their reviews or quotes are never used by mainstream commercial shows for publicity Although perhaps the RC will have to in this case as there isn't much else for them to spin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 9:30:46 GMT
People may fnd it interesting to do the twitter search I referred to above - pity royalcourt (with no space). Opening night tonight. You do realise The two are not mutually exclusive And people post on forums AND Twitter So I am not sure of your point In fact If someone’s entire contribution To social media Is Twitter It says a lot about them
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 11:08:38 GMT
People may fnd it interesting to do the twitter search I referred to above - pity royalcourt (with no space). Opening night tonight. You do realise The two are not mutually exclusive And people post on forums AND Twitter So I am not sure of your point In fact If someone’s entire contribution To social media Is Twitter It says a lot about them I was thinking about this and it’s the brevity of the medium. I’m looking between the lines for what the production is about and the way it is done. Easily done in a short tweet, yes or no and then move onto the next one and people who like something tend to better describe what they have seen. Actually, the opinions are pretty much irrelevant at that point. Once I’ve seen something then it’s interesting to read longer responses so I can compare them with my own.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 13:01:06 GMT
Perhaps a discussion about why we post on forums belongs on another thread. I don’t consider my posts to be reviews. They are not intended to help other people make up their minds about what to see or avoid. They are purely a way of expressing my immediate thoughts on my experience of watching a play. If they were reviews I would spend more time on them, working them up until they were succinct and accurate representations of my experience. Sometimes I’ve been pointed in the direction of a play by comments on this forum - negative or positive. I’m drawn to plays because of the subject matter and would go to see a play that interests me regardless of reviews or any number of negative/positive posts or tweets.
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Post by foxa on Jul 21, 2018 17:53:41 GMT
Mr Foxa wanted to see this today, so we went to the matinee.
Oh my.
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Post by foxa on Jul 21, 2018 18:47:26 GMT
Show report: Running time: One hour forty no interval (probably a good thing.) Dogs or other animals: No, but at one point actors pretend to be animals (not so great) or pretend they are walking dogs (quite fun.) Loud noises: Tonnes, constantly, yes! If you have a thing about loud noises don't go. Audience: Not at all full today. The audience seemed to arrive happy and leave unhappy. Positives: Chloe Lambert's design was inventive, if, at times, troublesome and sound designer Pete Malkin did a couple of good things. I think Francesca Mills is a potential star - she has a lot of charisma, a grasp of comedy and did some very good physical work. Liked some of the early synchronised movement. Front of house staff (except for grouchy box office guy) were lovely. You are given the choice of the usual entrance or the dock entrance. We liked the dock entrance where you walked across the stage and could buy an ice cream and get a free tombola ticket if you so desire. The Royal Court is beautiful and I loved feeling the hug of the auditorium from the stage. Negatives: Ah. I've seen three of Mullarkey's plays and I can't say on that evidence if he's a good writer or not. He must certainly be excellent at pitching ideas to get people willing to put them on and he has a certain confidence, but I've yet to see anything where he's created a character or had a believable or involving story arc - which he would probably disdain but, for me, watching a bunch of ciphers do unbelievable things is, well, not great. It reminded me of when my son was about twelve and he had that computer game Sims (?) where you were supposed to design a house and a family and have them do things. He would build outlandish things and then have disasters - the bins were constantly on fire and family members were hurtling out of windows. 'Pity' had that same childish nothing matters nihilism. The atrocities section was almost unbearable in its repetition and tedium.
I've been researching Arthur Miller for something and its interesting to see how much of his early life involved menial, manual labour type jobs and while we think of 'Death of a Salesman' as an early play, it was actually (depending on how you count them) approximately his tenth. His best writing tended to be rooted in his understanding of ordinary working people. His playwriting apprenticeship and experience of the real world was essential to his best work. I think if you are someone who has only been a student and then a writer, you may have less to say to audiences. Or at least to me.
I would give it one and a half stars because of some charm and inventiveness in the first ten minutes.
Mr Foxa said zero stars and asked if I could think of anything we'd ever seen that was worse. (I have been more bored or offended, so not the worst for me.) He thought it was insultingly bad.
The man in the row in front of us kept resting his head on the seat before him. He'd occasionally look up - see something ghastly - then rest his head back down.
It is a bit heart-breaking how much money was spent on this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 19:07:17 GMT
Mr Foxa wanted to see this today, so we went to the matinee. Oh my. So you are one of the posters I always look out for Regarding comments and views In this case Did the negative reviews both in the forum And the press Not serve to put you off attending this? Do you wish you had not bothered? Or did you take enough away from it? I am not asking this to be rude or provacative But with all respect Our time is precious Too valuable to see things this worthless It always amazes me That people read universally bad press and reviews I am not talking the odd review I mean across the board And then still see something at their time and expense Also when I say about reading reviews Not just noting the number of stars But the content All the reviews for this show Have observed the tedious And protracted nature of the play Poor direction And staging And text After reading this Are people actually expecting to enjoy it when they go? Do they think the bad reviews and criticism are just made up??
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Post by foxa on Jul 21, 2018 19:18:33 GMT
I'm not offended at all, Parsley, and I see what you are saying.
I suppose there are two things: part of the success of my unbelievably long marriage to Mr Foxa is to say sometimes, sure, okay, why not? He was intrigued - he had liked St George and the Dragon more than me and, despite the reviews for this, wanted to go. And the second thing, is that I am quite a curious person and a bit of a play collector. The Royal Court is easy for us to get to and I got my work done this morning, so...fine. And, oddly, I still had quite a pleasant afternoon.
I think you are in some ways more passionate and sensitive than I am - it is like you are in physical and mental anguish during a play you don't enjoy - whereas I am, I suppose, a bit like a a clock maker. If I don't enjoy it, I sit there trying to figure it out.
In terms of other people's reviews - I'm always interested to read your reviews and if you rave about something (such as 'Cuttin' it') then I sit up and take notice. And sometimes I agree with your pans, but sometimes I enjoy those plays a bit more :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 19:23:00 GMT
I'm not offended at all, Parsley, and I see what you are saying. I suppose there are two things: part of the success of my unbelievably long marriage to Mr Foxa is to say sometimes, sure, okay, why not? He was intrigued - he had liked St George and the Dragon more than me and, despite the reviews for this, wanted to go. And the second thing, is that I am quite a curious person and a bit of a play collector. The Royal Court is easy for us to get to and I got my work done this morning, so...fine. And, oddly, I still had quite a pleasant afternoon. I think you are in some ways more passionate and sensitive than I am - it is like you are in physical and mental anguish during a play you don't enjoy - whereas I am, I suppose, a bit like a a clock maker. If I don't enjoy it, I sit there trying to figure it out. In terms of other people's reviews - I'm always interested to read your reviews and if you rave about something (such as 'Cuttin' it') then I sit up and take notice. And sometimes I agree with your pans, but sometimes I enjoy those plays a bit more :-) Yes you are right I think difference in personality has a lot to do with it I am very impatient And get very agitated if a show doesn’t grab me As you said I get physically distressed And angry and insulted I am also quick to realise and decide if I like a show or not There are some shows which surprise me Recently Utility comes to mind Which I think was mundane But I very much found it absorbing So it’s not that the show has to have bells and whistles to catch my attention I find your points interesting As so often the reason I am very polarised and dramatic in my reviews Is the idea of others having to suffer a dud show as I have done Upsets me greatly
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Post by foxa on Jul 21, 2018 19:26:28 GMT
Yes, and that's how I have always understood your reviews, Parsley!
AND I agree about 'Utility' that was a surprise hit with me - and I went to that just on a whim on my own one afternoon. I was totally absorbed. But I like real, sympathetic portrayals of people with a dilemma (that's not the only thing I like but that play certainly had it!) It was the exact opposite of 'Pity.'
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 19:57:24 GMT
Yes, and that's how I have always understood your reviews, Parsley! AND I agree about 'Utility' that was a surprise hit with me - and I went to that just on a whim on my own one afternoon. I was totally absorbed. But I like real, sympathetic portrayals of people with a dilemma (that's not the only thing I like but that play certainly had it!) It was the exact opposite of 'Pity.' I am thinking of all you forum sisters At heart When I post about shows !!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 20:27:55 GMT
Surprised to report that I really, really enjoyed this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 20:45:26 GMT
Surprised to report that I really, really enjoyed this. 🤗🤗
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Post by foxa on Jul 22, 2018 8:56:30 GMT
Tell us more, xanderl.
Over breakfast, Mr Foxa continued his complaints about the play, including the rather unique observation:
'And that postwoman saying she was off to do the afternoon post. Where in the country do they still have an afternoon post? It's arcane!'
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 10:31:34 GMT
Well, the large glass of wine I necked beforehand may have helped but it was one of the most entertaining evenings in the theatre I’ve had for a long time. I kept thinking about the sandwich song on the way home and laughing again
Reminded me of the films of Roy Andersson crossed with a panto.
And this is despite me being repeatedly accused of playing Pétanque by the Red General.
Was quite exiting being in the front row as I could feel the heat from the pyrotechnics
Could have been edited a bit but (as with Andersson) going on a bit too long made it funnier most of the time.
Only criticism- that was a raffle, not a tombola
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