|
Post by NorthernAlien on Jul 13, 2019 20:51:49 GMT
Hmm, yes, totally the first with new choreography. If you ignore the recent production at The Royal Exchange in Manchester...
|
|
2,859 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by couldileaveyou on Nov 9, 2019 16:07:00 GMT
|
|
367 posts
|
Post by raider80 on Nov 9, 2019 16:51:16 GMT
Its been rumored that I Feel Pretty was going to get cut for a while now but I didn't hear anything about the ballet being cut. It's going to make the show purist mad. The more I've heard about this production the more I'm interested into seeing it. I wish the production team would fix the marketing, it's a Broadway musical no the GAP.
|
|
4,983 posts
|
Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 9, 2019 16:54:37 GMT
Eek. Who is 'cool' with this?
Unfortunately, it does mean a female ethnic minority will miss out on her big number, I'm sensing an argument coming. I don't know WSS too well but it does appear to be very 'white male' already.
|
|
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 9, 2019 18:07:20 GMT
I am very, very surprised that the Bernstein estate have agreed to such radical cutting. The show has succeeded in capturing audiences for so long because it is well-structured and uses contrast and tone very well.
Does I feel Pretty advance the plot? No, but it heightens the tragedy to see Maria celebrating her happiness only for it to be punctured by finding out what has happened elsewhere?
If you are looking for a number that does seem superfluous, it would have to be Gee, Officer Krupke - that doesn't do anything to add to character or plot. But I still wouldn't want to see the show without it.
Sometimes a radical cut can lead to rescuing a piece that has not worked in the past. Taking a hatchet to a piece as well-constructed as WSS feels like an indulgence on the part of the director rather than a necessary or desirable act to save a show from oblivion.
I am by no means a purist, but this does not feel like a justifiable move to me.
|
|
3,349 posts
|
Post by Dr Tom on Nov 9, 2019 21:54:27 GMT
I am very, very surprised that the Bernstein estate have agreed to such radical cutting. Amazing what the prospect of a percentage of the takings from a fresh version of a Broadway show, plus the inevitable tour and London production, will do to an estate! Presumably with a shorter one-act show, they can go to three performances per day if it's successful, and it's also timed for a Vegas run.
|
|
7,176 posts
|
Post by Jon on Nov 10, 2019 0:06:06 GMT
This is either going to be well received or torn to shreds, there’s is no middle ground.
|
|
716 posts
|
Post by indis on Nov 10, 2019 3:27:41 GMT
this is just stupid! If you need to shorten it, cut that horrible Krupke song out! Its just a toilet chance during the show anyway! never know what to do while its running, its like Wickeds wizard song „wonderful“ - not needed and boring as hell
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 19:18:55 GMT
People are so precious about this show before it has even hit previews. Sondheim is on record on disliking I Feel Pretty and it does shop the show in its tracks ... as does the Somewhere ballet. I doubt either will be missed much in terms of the overall narrative.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 19:21:57 GMT
I am very, very surprised that the Bernstein estate have agreed to such radical cutting. Amazing what the prospect of a percentage of the takings from a fresh version of a Broadway show, plus the inevitable tour and London production, will do to an estate! Presumably with a shorter one-act show, they can go to three performances per day if it's successful, and it's also timed for a Vegas run. The estate gets royalty percentages regardless of what happens on the stage, so this cynicism seems a bit misplaced. And Vegas? Really? If Shakespeare can regularly be reinterpreted, set in new eras, and have sizeable portions of plays cut or moved around, I am pretty sure WSS can survive these rather modest changes. And if they don't work base don audience reaction or critical response, no doubt they won't be approved in the future.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Nov 10, 2019 19:44:26 GMT
It’s the same with some reactions to the film remake. Just because this production is “radically different” to other productions, it doesn’t suddenly mean that the original and all previous productions cease to exist! It will come, it will be good or bad, it will go and there will be original replicas again down the line.
|
|
7,176 posts
|
Post by Jon on Nov 10, 2019 19:53:07 GMT
It’s the same with some reactions to the film remake. Just because this production is “radically different” to other productions, it doesn’t suddenly mean that the original and all previous productions cease to exist! It will come, it will be good or bad, it will go and there will be original replicas again down the line. I think it should applauded for reinventing the material. We've seen with Oklahoma! that you can breathe new life into a classic musical. I'd prefer this and it be a honourable failure than another museum production.
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Nov 10, 2019 20:34:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 10, 2019 21:08:16 GMT
There is a significant difference between a radical cut of a play to that of a musical
The score is an integral part of a musical - the choice of keys and the progression from one number to the next can be musically and dramatically very important.
Yes, scores can be reorchestrated and things do get altered. But change is not always for the best.
With regards to WSS, I think it is wrong that people were forced to recreate the original choreography for so long - there should always have been freedom for directors and choreographers to restage the show. Recreating the original over and over is not the best way to handle it.
But the cuts, as being suggested here, do, to my mind, damage to the piece as a whole. As I said in an earlier comment, I Feel Pretty has an important dramatic role in the show. It is wrong to say it stops the show - it is the first number after the interval. It is the first music we hear after having had time reflect on what happened at the end of the first act. We know that Maria is not yet aware of the tragic incidents and she is revelling in her happiness. Allowing her that moment of happiness means that the impact of being told what happens hits home even harder.
As for the ballet, I have never been bored by it when I have seen WSS on stage. Musically it is gripping. It is nothing like the over-extended stuff we get from R&H in Carousel or Oklahoma. It works in context. Could it work better with a trim? Possibly. Does it contribute to the world of the piece? Absolutely. Dance is such a key part of the concept of WSS that a ballet sequence is not an indulgence and it gives Somewhere a natural place from which to emerge.
With regards to America, I prefer the original version - just with the female voices. It has more personality than the film version. But it is not something that really alters the feel of the piece for me.
Change can be good. Change can be necessary. I am not against change. However I am against change for the sake of change. I am against change that fundamentally undermines something I value about a piece of theatre. The score for WSS is not absolutely perfect - but it is one of the most perfect scores of any musical I know. Disrupting what Bernstein created is something that needs to be done very, very carefully. No doubt this production team believe they are doing just that. But I reserve the right to be highly sceptical of that belief.
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Nov 12, 2019 2:05:29 GMT
There is a significant difference between a radical cut of a play to that of a musical The score is an integral part of a musical - the choice of keys and the progression from one number to the next can be musically and dramatically very important. Yes, scores can be reorchestrated and things do get altered. But change is not always for the best. With regards to WSS, I think it is wrong that people were forced to recreate the original choreography for so long - there should always have been freedom for directors and choreographers to restage the show. Recreating the original over and over is not the best way to handle it. But the cuts, as being suggested here, do, to my mind, damage to the piece as a whole. As I said in an earlier comment, I Feel Pretty has an important dramatic role in the show. It is wrong to say it stops the show - it is the first number after the interval. It is the first music we hear after having had time reflect on what happened at the end of the first act. We know that Maria is not yet aware of the tragic incidents and she is revelling in her happiness. Allowing her that moment of happiness means that the impact of being told what happens hits home even harder. As for the ballet, I have never been bored by it when I have seen WSS on stage. Musically it is gripping. It is nothing like the over-extended stuff we get from R&H in Carousel or Oklahoma. It works in context. Could it work better with a trim? Possibly. Does it contribute to the world of the piece? Absolutely. Dance is such a key part of the concept of WSS that a ballet sequence is not an indulgence and it gives Somewhere a natural place from which to emerge. With regards to America, I prefer the original version - just with the female voices. It has more personality than the film version. But it is not something that really alters the feel of the piece for me. Change can be good. Change can be necessary. I am not against change. However I am against change for the sake of change. I am against change that fundamentally undermines something I value about a piece of theatre. The score for WSS is not absolutely perfect - but it is one of the most perfect scores of any musical I know. Disrupting what Bernstein created is something that needs to be done very, very carefully. No doubt this production team believe they are doing just that. But I reserve the right to be highly sceptical of that belief. There is not going to be an intermission in the show, so I Feel Pretty would indeed stop the show in its tracks... Somewhere the song is still in it, only the ballet portion is being removed.
|
|
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 12, 2019 5:18:01 GMT
The creators of WSS intended there to be a pause in the action after The Rumble. They intended to give audiences time to reflect on that violence. I Feel Pretty is there to restart the action at the start of the second act and to heighten the drama by showing Maria at her happiest.
That isn't stopping the action. The contrast in mood serves a vital dramatic function.
And yes, I do know that this is only one production. But we are still allowed to consider their choices and to comment on them.
Just because a director has been lauded and applauded for their work to date does not mean they are infallible or immune from criticism. And yes, you have to reach a final judgement only after having seen the finished production. But again, there is nothing wrong with expressing scepticism.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 11:37:14 GMT
Just because a director has been lauded and applauded for their work to date does not mean they are infallible or immune from criticism. And yes, you have to reach a final judgement only after having seen the finished production. But again, there is nothing wrong with expressing scepticism. Always open to thoughtful skepticism such as yours. It is the outright hostility or dismissal that many are offering over on Broadway World that is utter nonsense.
|
|
4,983 posts
|
Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 12, 2019 12:54:03 GMT
Just because a director has been lauded and applauded for their work to date does not mean they are infallible or immune from criticism. And yes, you have to reach a final judgement only after having seen the finished production. But again, there is nothing wrong with expressing scepticism. Always open to thoughtful skepticism such as yours. It is the outright hostility or dismissal that many are offering over on Broadway World that is utter nonsense. I really struggle with broadway world as many of the posters appear to be luddites. An American Sondheim forum is very similar
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 15:47:04 GMT
Always open to thoughtful skepticism such as yours. It is the outright hostility or dismissal that many are offering over on Broadway World that is utter nonsense. I really struggle with broadway world as many of the posters appear to be luddites. An American Sondheim forum is very similar BWW also features some very young and very *ahem* enthusiastic fans whose perspectives, while often fresh and invigorating, can frequently be limited or misinformed.
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Nov 12, 2019 16:10:21 GMT
I doubt one of the the biggest theatre directors on earth atm would take on a production unless he has TOTAL control over it.
I do however think it is funny he is making these changes to create a sense of 'rushing towards death' when everything else he has ever done has limped along at almost torturously glacial pace.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 2:46:49 GMT
Hmm. I guess I haven't found much of his previous work to move that slowly, or certainly not slow for the source material. He actually streamlined Angels quite a bit, so it moved more quickly than in other productions. The Crucible, A Little Life, and Network all seemed appropriately paced, but maybe some of his other works that I have not seen run more slowly.
|
|
|
Post by craig on Nov 13, 2019 11:22:18 GMT
I do however think it is funny he is making these changes to create a sense of 'rushing towards death' when everything else he has ever done has limped along at almost torturously glacial pace. IVH is very hit and miss for me, but I'm always intrigued.
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Nov 13, 2019 15:34:24 GMT
Hmm. I guess I haven't found much of his previous work to move that slowly, or certainly not slow for the source material. He actually streamlined Angels quite a bit, so it moved more quickly than in other productions. The Crucible, A Little Life, and Network all seemed appropriately paced, but maybe some of his other works that I have not seen run more slowly. All About Eve and The Damned were both extremely slow. Not to say I didn't enjoy them, but they certainly both took their time to get where they were going and neither had much of a payoff at the end. I really enjoyed The Crucible and View From a Bridge had great pacing so here's hoping he can do it again here. Missed Network unfortunately
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Nov 13, 2019 15:35:51 GMT
I do however think it is funny he is making these changes to create a sense of 'rushing towards death' when everything else he has ever done has limped along at almost torturously glacial pace. IVH is very hit and miss for me, but I'm always intrigued. I think he is great and I've never disliked anything I've seen from him. I hope we eventually get WSS here.
|
|
|
Post by craig on Nov 14, 2019 13:06:40 GMT
View From A Bridge was absolutely exceptional. I was blown away by it... I do have a thing for Miller though.
|
|