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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 9:04:14 GMT
But it's all so needless. A presumably costly rebrand to a local community theatre with a long established, GOOD national reputation and friendly, playful name that has ended up upsetting part of that local community, and the objection is now being portrayed as racist. Is it? In the current climate, these things now escalate quickly and other elements pile in, people become entrenched in 'sides' and no grey area of rational debate is allowed.
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Post by zahidf on Sept 11, 2018 9:13:04 GMT
But it's all so needless. A presumably costly rebrand to a local community theatre with a long established, GOOD national reputation and friendly, playful name that has ended up upsetting part of that local community, and the objection is now being portrayed as racist. Is it? In the current climate, these things now escalate quickly and other elements pile in, people become entrenched in 'sides' and no grey area of rational debate is allowed. No one is saying it's racist per se. More of a privilege thing IMO. It's only a name. I preferred the tricycle but it's not the end of the world, and the whole thing looks a bit like father Ted's 'down with that sort of thing' . I'm more interested in the plays. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 9:27:48 GMT
It's... *sort* of racist. Or can be read as such even if the intention isn't there. The use of "our" on all those placards brandished by white people with the accusatory "your" aimed at a theatre with an artistic director of Tamil background does paint an unsavoury picture.
That said, I'm reasonably confident the pro-Tricycle faction would have turned out in such a way had the AD been a posh white man. They're EXTREMELY proprietary in Kilburn, it always made me feel very unwelcome (until they introduced assigned seating and I didn't have to spend as much time in the foyer anymore), so if these people decide to take their bats home and not spend any time at the Kiln Theatre, then I don't consider them any real loss to London's theatre fabric.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 9:29:35 GMT
No one is saying it's racist per se. On Twitter this morning that is what is being strongly implied. The our/your banners could be interpreted as a bit iffy but given the stories around the rebranding exercise - apparently done from above without talking to the local community - it could just be local people with a near-40 year attachment to the name being genuinely upset by its loss. I was cheesed off when our local pubs were given new 'jokey' names and a couple of local institutions renamed in honour of a couple of local celebrities with no link to either of them. I didn't demonstrate but the changes still bug me and I still prefer the old names. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 9:29:58 GMT
I am decidedly on the side of the protestors. And all those white people have as much right to protest as anybody else. My objection is that if they had to change the name couldn’ t they khave chosen something more meaningful? Kiln is so nondescript for a theatre that innovated
With the tribunal plays etc. For me it just shows a lack of incisive thought.
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Post by Michael on Sept 11, 2018 9:30:43 GMT
Threads merged
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Post by Jan on Sept 11, 2018 9:53:44 GMT
They should get Boris Johnson onboard sounds like the kind of campaign that he would love to champion No it doesn’t. Those local protestors are probably Labour voters anyway, the sort who used to turn up at the Tricycle to hear some judicial report read out loud. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 9:55:22 GMT
Looking at the campaign's website (https://ourtricycle.com/) it seems that by "Our" they mean "the community" and "Your" they mean "corporate branding types" so its unfortunate that the look of the protest gives a somewhat different impression. It would appear that the theatre hasn't handled things too well, if the Private Eye story (https://ourtricycle.com/2018/09/02/press-cuttings-about-tricycle-theatre-2/) is accurrate.
Having said that if you then look at the twitter feed of the protester named in the Private Eye story, he has been a little relentless. Sadly things seem to have gone well beyond the point where they can sit down and have a chat to resolve their differences.
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Post by zahidf on Sept 11, 2018 10:00:02 GMT
Looking at the campaign's website (https://ourtricycle.com/) it seems that by "Our" they mean "the community" and "Your" they mean "corporate branding types" so its unfortunate that the look of the protest gives a somewhat different impression. It would appear that the theatre hasn't handled things too well, if the Private Eye story (https://ourtricycle.com/2018/09/02/press-cuttings-about-tricycle-theatre-2/) is accurrate. Having said that if you then look at the twitter feed of the protester named in the Private Eye story, he has been a little relentless. Sadly things seem to have gone well beyond the point where they can sit down and have a chat to resolve their differences. Yeah, that was the impression I got as well.
TBH, I was against the name change at first, but I think the protesting has got a little out of hand. I prefer the tricycle but it is what it is now.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 10:02:47 GMT
Just got this email from the Guardian: "A new Guardian Crowd survey is available and we would really appreciate it if you could spare about 6 minutes to take part. The Guardian is launching a new podcast, and we'd like to show you some potential names and get your thoughts."
That's the way to do it.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 11, 2018 10:30:02 GMT
There is no way that the old name will be brought back. There is no way they will bow to pressure.
The protesters should form their own theatre group 'The Real Tricycle' and start putting on plays by the local community, for the local community.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 11:33:45 GMT
I have tried (really tried) to see the point of view of the protesters in this...but failed. Things change, theatre names change. It's really not the end of the world as we know it. And I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt that the 'us' 'them' rhetoric is an unfortunate turn of phrase (and indeed the 'community' v 'corporate' they claim) but it is..unfortunate. Anyway, as oxfordsimon points out, if they're that wedded to the name/theatre, then I presume they'd be more than welcome to set up their own now the company is named something else. |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 11, 2018 11:42:33 GMT
I have sympathy as corporate re-branding exercises always seem like an expensive waste of time. Most of the time it feels like a case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.
BUT, I have to admit the branding people do usually know their stuff, I've seen new brand identities catch on and be very successful that people who remembered the old version turned their noses up at.
And as someone once said, 'a rose by any other name would smell as sweet'. Once you're in the room, watching some great theatre, what the sign over the foyer door says makes very little difference to you. It's certainly not worth protesting about.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 11, 2018 11:56:15 GMT
The theatre has handled this badly - but they won't back down.
There does appear to be little evidence of meaningful community consultation regarding the rebranding and the name seems to have no real connection to the area (other than Kilburn with BUR removed!)
I suspect if the rebranding had resulted in it becoming the Kilburn Theatre, the local reaction would have been far more positive. As it would have taken on a local identity. Kiln just feels a somewhat arbitrary choice.
I can only guess they were trying something along the lines of The Crucible - a place where the heat of creative fire has a transformative effect on raw talent (or something like that)
Oh, I just checked their website
"This transformed Tricycle is renamed Kiln Theatre – a name that echoes Kilburn, the place where we live. It speaks of energy and creativity and inspires a sense of warmth. We are a local theatre with international influence, proudly located in Brent, the most culturally diverse borough in London."
Kiln really doesn't echo Kilburn - that is a stretch too far. It echoes the Potteries where Kilns are part of the landscape.
Kiln doesn't speak of energy, creativity or warmth. Kilns fire at temperatures well beyond warmth.
Also it is rather strange to talk of Kilburn of being the place where 'we live' and then say 'we are a local theatre' 'in Brent'. I know there is a overlap between the naming of the area due to council wards and the like. But it is a confused message.
The theatre bosses have not sold this well at all. There is no easily understandable explanation for the new name. But they won't back down.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 11, 2018 12:03:19 GMT
Kiln doesn't speak of energy, creativity or warmth. Kilns fire at temperatures well beyond warmth. Oh, I think that's a little unfair - of course kilns are connected to creativity! There's any number of creative arts and crafts that involve a kiln, and it's the energy of heat that a kiln uses to produce those arts and crafts. It's not that much of a stretch, as branding exercises go. I mean, I've heard worse. Clearly they should have handled the transition better, involved more locals, etc - but it's the change management they've fallen down on here (as is so often the case), not the branding itself. |
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Post by bellboard27 on Sept 11, 2018 12:08:49 GMT
If the Kiln has decided it no longer wants to include its local community and focuses on a wider audience, then fine. However, if it does want to include the local community, then I suspect that its supposed failure to include it in its rebranding process may be a mistake. At some point it will reach out to the Kilburn community and this may then seem hollow.
This is where the "us"/"them" language arises. For the protesters, the theatre was part of "us", the community, but now it is perceived as having been separated from it by "them". For some the point may not be whether the theatre is called Tricycle, Kiln or anything else, but the fact that they were not asked.
Of course, they won't bow to the protesters. Looking at these protesters, they probably have a long experience of protesting (their twitter timelines show some are strong Corbyn-supporting Labour members). However, the protest may have some effect - not to reverse the rebranding, but to get management to think twice in future. I am sure management will organise various events to show off the facilities to the community in due course.
Incidentally, the protesters claim the local newspaper was also excluded from opening night. If so, that might prove a mistake as well.
It all sounds like a mess that could have been so easily avoided.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 12:08:51 GMT
And a Chocolate Factory suggests creativity, taking raw ingredients and making something wonderful and beloved. But the Menier Chocolate Factory is a theatre on the site of a former chocolate factory, rather than a theatre in a borough of London called Mernieres that wanted a "creative" name to represent the act of making theatre in this area. "Kiln" is a stretch and a half and none of the reasonings for choosing that name in particular make *quite* enough sense. But it's the name now; agree, diasagree, like it, or don't, but move forward (and, if applicable, put your placards away, you look silly).
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Post by david on Sept 11, 2018 12:09:36 GMT
My own take on this is in the grand scheme of things, is the name change really that important to get the flag wavers out? If I was a local resident, I’d be grateful that there is a local theatre there at all rather than just a boarded up building or it being converted into another COSTA or McD’s. Ok, the owners probably haven’t engaged with the community as much as they might have done, but as a theatre goer, does the name of the building make any difference to me? Quite honestly no it doesn’t. I am more concerned with stuff like
1. The quality of customer service offered
2. The quality and range of productions that are programmed during the year
3. Ticket prices and the quality of the view from my seat
As others have posted, if people do feel strongly against the rebrand, then open up an alternative venue. At least it would give another theatre in the area.
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Post by Jan on Sept 11, 2018 12:10:05 GMT
Kiln doesn't speak of energy, creativity or warmth. Kilns fire at temperatures well beyond warmth. it's the change management they've fallen down on here (as is so often the case), not the branding itself. Not sure. The key bit of the re-branding is dropping the old brand name. It is a risk especially after they have been closed for two years and now have limited name recognition. Other theatres I know who have been closed for 1-2 years have come back with lower audience numbers and have had to build again, it is a risk to combine that with a name change. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 12:11:03 GMT
A cynical person might suggest they *knew* this would happen, and were counting on the protesters to increase publicity around the theatre's reopening.....
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Post by kathryn on Sept 11, 2018 12:19:38 GMT
I’m fairly sure more people will have hear of the Kiln now than were aware of the Tricycle - whether the protests were what they wanted or not!
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Post by Jan on Sept 11, 2018 12:20:39 GMT
A cynical person might suggest they *knew* this would happen, and were counting on the protesters to increase publicity around the theatre's reopening..... I wonder who actually came up with the name ? Did they employ brand consultants like those bearded hipsters who turn up on "The Hotel Inspector" with their list of names, mood boards and exciting font choices ? |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 12:25:55 GMT
Here's something I've just seen from one of my local (Liverpool) food venues. Communication, friendliness, engagement - "As Autumn is just around the corner we've thought about doing some mid-week cinema nights when we'd otherwise be closed. Tickets would be free, we'd just ask you make a donation to a local charity. There'd be amazing food, themed cocktails and great films. Who's up for it?"
John Lewis has just had a rebrand that puts the stress on community and inclusivity. If a shop can do that, why does this London arts venue seem to have such a tin ear?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 11:09:54 GMT
Had a look at the twitter feed of the OurTricycle campaign, I think if a lot of people were really that bothered about the name change they would have more than 108 followers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 11:24:41 GMT
Had a look at the twitter feed of the OurTricycle campaign, I think if a lot of people were really that bothered about the name change they would have more than 108 followers. 109. You have just inspired me to follow them. |
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