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Post by kathryn on Sept 6, 2017 10:36:02 GMT
But to take it back to Punchdrunk, in their case it is rightly a part of their overall artistic 'ethos' as it were to be exclusive and secret so it doesn't feel as bad. Yes, as I understand it being a Punchdrunk fan does mean accepting that you might not get to experience certain parts of their work, even when it's a more open show than this. It's baked-in to the concept. That's probably why their approach has never appealed to me, personally. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 10:38:37 GMT
But to take it back to Punchdrunk, in their case it is rightly a part of their overall artistic 'ethos' as it were to be exclusive and secret so it doesn't feel as bad. Yes, as I understand it being a Punchdrunk fan does mean accepting that you might not get to experience certain parts of their work, even when it's a more open show than this. It's baked-in to the concept. That's probably why their approach has never appealed to me, personally. Personally it was being locked in a dark building while actors interact with you. Actually just the latter. (I admit to being a partial convert now) But generally the one-on-one 'experience' stuff in general isn't my bag generally. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 12:11:46 GMT
To me, this sounds like a nightmare - having to interact with people for six hours - the exhaustion and social awkwardness would kill me!
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Post by Steffi on Sept 6, 2017 12:28:08 GMT
I absolutely understand that Punchdrunk (and immersive theatre in general) isn't for everyone. You have to be up for it otherwise you won't enjoy that kind of performance.
For me personally, Punchdrunk shows are like being in another world for a few hours. I allow myself to completely dive into the experience. I know none of the performers will ever force me to do anything I find embarrassing. The beauty in Punchdrunk shows is they won't force anyone to do anything at all - if you want to do nothing but watch then that is what you can do. Obviously in this new show a certain element pf participation will be required. It's different than shows like Sleep No More or The Drowned Man.
There was talk about an idea called Punchdrunk Travel a few years ago which sounded fascinating. This actually feels like it might be a first incarnation of that idea.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 12:36:50 GMT
The question of what actually is theatre is one that has exercised great minds for centuries. There is a clear understanding that Punchdrunk, creating stories performed by performers for an audience (however interactive) fits any description of theatre, but where does the dividing line fall? I've known of theatre that has had no performers, for example, not even via audio or video, where the audience follow instructions and become the performers. What about circus? Well, much contemporary circus is within a framework of narrative, however obscured. HG mentioned the performance art of We're Here Because We're Here where the audience is accidental but that still appears to be theatre in its portrayal of character and situation. There were Dada theatre experiments drained of meaning which still resonate as theatre. Standup comedy is a close relation of one the oldest forms of theatre where one person tells others stories. Greyer areas might be something such as a locked room mystery, because when does a game become theatre? Performance studies will look at parades, fairs, opening ceremonies (surely the 2012 opening ceremony was theatre), political conferences to find the theatrical elements within. It is easy, in fact, to see theatre as a direct outgrowth of religious ceremony, so maybe that should be included as well.
In short, nobody knows but the boundaries are seen as much more inclusive than you think.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 12:50:35 GMT
I absolutely understand that Punchdrunk (and immersive theatre in general) isn't for everyone. You have to be up for it otherwise you won't enjoy that kind of performance. Personally, Punchdrunk shows are like being in another world for a few hours. I allow myself to completely dive into the experience. I know none of the performers wil ever force me to do anything I find embarrassing. The beauty in Punchdrunk shows is they won't force anyone to do anything at all - if you want to so nothing but watch then that is what you can do. Obviously in this new show a certain element pf participation will be required. It's different than shows like Sleep No More or The Drowned Man. There was talk about an idea called Punchdrunk Travel a few years ago which sounded fascinating. This actually feels like it might be a first incarnation of that idea. Oh agree on all of those- for me it's a particular personal set of actual phobias/fears (of varying degrees) that put me off. I trust Punchdrunk as a company, and feel I know their work well enough to feel 'safe' in their worlds, but I wouldn't go to many untested immersive events because I would just feel horribly anxious/outright terrified depending on the set up. But if I've gone to a Punchdrunk (or similar) show I know I as an audience member have committed. Immersive stuff as well as the more 'discovered' stuff (sort of the public art type things) are a fascinating world of theatre/performance. |
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Post by iamian on Sept 6, 2017 13:01:14 GMT
I absolutely understand that Punchdrunk (and immersive theatre in general) isn't for everyone. You have to be up for it otherwise you won't enjoy that kind of performance. Personally, Punchdrunk shows are like being in another world for a few hours. I allow myself to completely dive into the experience. I know none of the performers wil ever force me to do anything I find embarrassing. The beauty in Punchdrunk shows is they won't force anyone to do anything at all - if you want to so nothing but watch then that is what you can do. Obviously in this new show a certain element pf participation will be required. It's different than shows like Sleep No More or The Drowned Man. There was talk about an idea called Punchdrunk Travel a few years ago which sounded fascinating. This actually feels like it might be a first incarnation of that idea. I think this sounds like it will be a similar format to their Silverpoint thing that happened last year. That took place over a week or so and involved getting phone calls, texts and going to certain places in London to have have "experiences" relating to the story and ended up with a 15/20 minute fully immersive experience (an initiation ceremony for a cult with hooded robes and naked dancing). I think it will be that kind of thing but much more intense as it is over 6 hours rather than a week. |
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Post by wickedgrin on Sept 6, 2017 14:46:02 GMT
This sounds like my idea of absolute hell.
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Post by n1david on Sept 13, 2017 14:04:24 GMT
The ballot results are coming out - two Nos here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 14:06:23 GMT
Unsuccessful over here too. If anyone has proven fortunate and is suddenly realising they don't have a +1, drop me a DM.
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Post by zahidf on Sept 13, 2017 14:13:38 GMT
No here as well
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Post by Snciole on Sept 13, 2017 14:18:11 GMT
Exactly that @baemax I actually don't see a lot of complaining from the more 'casual' theatre fans out there mainly from a cohort of critics and general whingers (two are not mutually exclusive) who feel they are entitled to if not get ahead of the system then cheat it... My issue with Hamlet was not so much the ballot but the deliberate 'we're going to make sure it's super exclusive' in a bit of a sneery bitchy way. Otherwise I'm frankly on board with a ballot if there's a decent amount of tickets- Cumber-Hamlet for example would have been managed far better by ballot I think. Anyway, Punchdrunk...will there be 'Psycho Greek Toy Shop Owner' or similar I wonder? I look forward to the reports... I agree about entitlement. Shenton is obviously fuming. I wrote that theatre is a victim of its own success, all those who tutted at friends, family, and colleagues who didn't get theatre are now raging theatre is too mainstream. Critics, well me, feel like we aren't needed anymore viewfromthecheapseat.com/2017/09/05/ballots-and-theatre-are-critics-required-anymore/ . Is it the end of the world if people miss out on Kabeiroi? Absolutely not but I can see why loyal Punchdrunk fans feel cheated and FOMO is a powerful emotion. My knees couldn't withstand 6 hours so I am relieved about my indifference to immersive work. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 14:28:20 GMT
Exactly that @baemax I actually don't see a lot of complaining from the more 'casual' theatre fans out there mainly from a cohort of critics and general whingers (two are not mutually exclusive) who feel they are entitled to if not get ahead of the system then cheat it... My issue with Hamlet was not so much the ballot but the deliberate 'we're going to make sure it's super exclusive' in a bit of a sneery bitchy way. Otherwise I'm frankly on board with a ballot if there's a decent amount of tickets- Cumber-Hamlet for example would have been managed far better by ballot I think. Anyway, Punchdrunk...will there be 'Psycho Greek Toy Shop Owner' or similar I wonder? I look forward to the reports... I agree about entitlement. Shenton is obviously fuming. I wrote that theatre is a victim of its own success, all those who tutted at friends, family, and colleagues who didn't get theatre are now raging theatre is too mainstream. Critics, well me, feel like we aren't needed anymore viewfromthecheapseat.com/2017/09/05/ballots-and-theatre-are-critics-required-anymore/ . Is it the end of the world if people miss out on Kabeiroi? Absolutely not but I can see why loyal Punchdrunk fans feel cheated and FOMO is a powerful emotion. My knees couldn't withstand 6 hours so I am relieved about my indifference to immersive work. I have to admit I love a good Shenton fume  as a sometime critic myself I'm inclined to agree with you and also fine about it- I think critics/bloggers etc still have a place for some shows- particularly the fringe etc. And I think decent theatre criticism has its place in creating cultural dialogue and in how we remember shows etc. But BIG shows certainly don't need Shenton et al telling people to go anymore. I didn't get Punchdrunk tickets as a fairly casual fan I'm fine with it, I feel bad for fans BUT many (not all fans) also thrive on the exclusivity of it all too, so can't have it both ways! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 14:30:24 GMT
At least the thought of Mark Shenton not getting to see this either will see me through these sorrowful hours.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 14:38:22 GMT
At least the thought of Mark Shenton not getting to see this either will see me through these sorrowful hours. haha true. Also can you imagine being the poor actor stuck with him for any substantial chunk of those 6 hours? I'm sure he'd be worse than a whining child stuck on a long car journey. (with equal toilet related conversation). |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 15, 2017 15:39:47 GMT
2nd Ballot is underway... See if anyone is lucky this time
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Post by paplazaroo on Sept 16, 2017 22:55:37 GMT
Surprised nobody has mentioned ACE funding, that's the bit that I don't like about this. If you get 250k a year despite having plenty other revenue streams, you owe it to the public to do a show they can access more than once or twice a decade. Yeah I know they do outreach and community stuff but that all seems so out of reach for your average theatregoer
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 3:16:51 GMT
The whole point about outreach and community work is that it is 'out of reach' of your average theatregoer.
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Post by Steffi on Sept 23, 2017 21:36:26 GMT
Did this today. Don't wanf to spoil it for anyone so no details. It's not Punchdrunk's best work but it's a great concept and we had a good time. We finished after about 4.5 hours - I think they have cut it down a bit during the first few previews.
There is a lot of walking and some running. And some very typical Punchdrunk touches.
Also, it's definitely not for anyone who isn't up for interacting with performers.
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Post by theatremad on Sept 26, 2017 12:32:55 GMT
On a slim chance, if anyone is lacking a second person at any chance, will happily pay and come along
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 7:50:34 GMT
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Post by kathryn on Sept 27, 2017 11:04:37 GMT
Hmm. So would they intervene if you mistook a random member of the public for a cast member, or would they let you accost a complete stranger in the street?!
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Post by paplazaroo on Sept 27, 2017 12:22:40 GMT
Sounds like the excellent 'you once said yes' that was on at the fringe a while ago, sad not to have a ticket!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 13:35:54 GMT
Hmm. So would they intervene if you mistook a random member of the public for a cast member, or would they let you accost a complete stranger in the street?! Perhaps there are no cast members and people are paying ££ to wander round London accosting members of the public while Punchdrunk sit in a pub laughing. |
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Post by Shoes on Sept 27, 2017 22:43:45 GMT
I don't know why but my ballot wasn't even given a response. My main criticism of Sleep No More was that it was stupidly oversold but two people per a performance seems like madness.
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as a sometime critic myself I'm inclined to agree with you and also fine about it- I think critics/bloggers etc still have a place for some shows- particularly the fringe etc. And I think decent theatre criticism has its place in creating cultural dialogue and in how we remember shows etc. But BIG shows certainly don't need Shenton et al telling people to go anymore. 
