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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 16:02:49 GMT
Relayed where? Twitter and Google are giving me nothing..... BB said in the print version, which I always glance at in the shop, that there were lots of empty seats after the interval of Wednesday's first preview and that "one fleeing couple" described it as "ponderous". He then said he was sure Lyndsey Turner would turn it around by press night. However Ryan has waxed so lyrically about it that I really want to see it now! The theatre wasn't full and there were even empty seats in the front couple of rows. Some people left at the interval. I did hear the people behind me calling it "bizarre". |
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Post by martin1965 on Oct 7, 2017 20:10:46 GMT
BB said in the print version, which I always glance at in the shop, that there were lots of empty seats after the interval of Wednesday's first preview and that "one fleeing couple" described it as "ponderous". He then said he was sure Lyndsey Turner would turn it around by press night. However Ryan has waxed so lyrically about it that I really want to see it now! The theatre wasn't full and there were even empty seats in the front couple of rows. Some people left at the interval. I did hear the people behind me calling it "bizarre". Uh oh! |
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Post by crabtree on Oct 7, 2017 21:09:12 GMT
but what about the dragon - is it a stage filling puppet or have they been less obvious?
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Post by peggs on Oct 7, 2017 21:14:18 GMT
Don't want to know! Will stay off thread and hope I share Ryan's view, bizarre can be good and my mind is doing over time imagining this wig.
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Post by crowblack on Oct 7, 2017 21:15:22 GMT
I did hear the people behind me calling it "bizarre" Isn't that often the case with previews though? I saw a late-in-the-run performance of Common on a Tuesday night and it was busy and the audience sounded like the enjoyed it afterwards - I presumed the reviews had discouraged the more mainstream theatregoers and encouraged the less mainstream folk-horror crowd (I count myself in the latter group). |
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Post by crowblack on Oct 7, 2017 21:15:55 GMT
I'm seeing it in November so will try to avoid reviews.
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Post by martin1965 on Oct 7, 2017 21:56:20 GMT
I did hear the people behind me calling it "bizarre" Isn't that often the case with previews though? I saw a late-in-the-run performance of Common on a Tuesday night and it was busy and the audience sounded like the enjoyed it afterwards - I presumed the reviews had discouraged the more mainstream theatregoers and encouraged the less mainstream folk-horror crowd (I count myself in the latter group). Can we just let the complete car crash that was Common rest in peace? Never had a worse night at the National! |
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Post by tmesis on Oct 7, 2017 21:57:32 GMT
Well it starts well with a Blackadder/Spamalot style romp and it's all rather endearing. By the interval they've brought the action forward to the Industrial Revolution. You're thinking it can't all be this light and frothy and after the interval it's not when we're brought up to date. It all then gets darker and more aimless, trying to make points about England today with overtones of Brexit. Mullarkey doesn't seem to have a clue where he is going with this and there is no proper ending at all; it just fizzles out! Maybe they'll improve the ending by press night but I can't see how without extensive re-writes.
The cast is very good and Heffernan is superb but he's wasted on this.
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Post by foxa on Oct 7, 2017 22:51:32 GMT
My impressions are close to those of tmesis.
The set by Rae Smith is fantastic, the music by Grant Olding is also very good and there are some strong performances, particularly Julian Bleach as the Dragon, Richard Goulding as Henry and yes, Heffernan who was in lively wide-eyed mode and very entertaining. There was also a very good child actor (not sure which of the two boys was on tonight.) None of the women in the cast particularly shone - possibly, at least in part, because their characters made so little sense.
But, oh my, the play. It starts off as an allegory (with an inventively staged dragon fight) and then turns into something else, messy and confused. There were a few jabs at the state of what we're like (about football,about progress, about small acts of protest) and then, well, a scuffling odd ending. Having seen 'Wolf at the Door' by the same writer, I think he sometimes has a bold central idea, but he isn't particularly interested in characters or structure. At the end, in both cases, I just thought, heh. There were a fair number of empty seats at the sides back of the circle and perhaps a few leavers (the man next to us scarpered) and at least one sleeper (also next to us.) We were front row circle and the view from there was very good.
I think it has curiosity value at least and it may improve.
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Post by theatrefan77 on Oct 7, 2017 23:15:02 GMT
Have complimentary tickets for next week so I'll give it a try. I had actually bought a ticket a while back but decided to exchange it for credit and instead use the comps to take friends, since the National are giving away free tickets from so many sources.
It's kind of desperate, they are more or less begging people to go to the show for free, which is a terrible sign. Is this going to be another massive flop like Common and Salome?
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Post by tmesis on Oct 7, 2017 23:22:50 GMT
Yes foxa the boy was excellent. Loads of empty seats for a Saturday night and the guy next to me bailed out at the interval. Apart from Follies the 'Curse of the Olivier' continues; three duff productions now, this, Salome and Consent. |
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Post by martin1965 on Oct 8, 2017 6:31:43 GMT
Have complimentary tickets for next week so I'll give it a try. I had actually bought a ticket a while back but decided to exchange it for credit and instead use the comps to take friends, since the National are giving away free tickets from so many sources. It's kind of desperate, they are more or less begging people to go to the show for free, which is a terrible sign. Is this going to be another massive flop like Common and Salome? Certainly looks that way. If you are going to give an unknown (to me at any rate) writer a slot at the NT. The Olivier is hardly the best start. So exposed. Next years Shakespeares better be amazing! |
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Post by Jan on Oct 8, 2017 7:49:18 GMT
Yes foxa the boy was excellent. Loads of empty seats for a Saturday night and the guy next to me bailed out at the interval. Apart from Follies the 'Curse of the Olivier' continues; three duff productions now, this, Salome and Consent. I don’t think the Olivier is cursed, I think there is another explanation. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 11:53:41 GMT
It's not a good match for contemporary writing, the Olivier can cope with big statements and epic narratives but that's not really where writers are allowed to be, given the economics of pretty much every other theatre. The only way to do it well is to experience it and learn from it, even writers like Bartlett and Bean have stumbled when asked to write for there. Revivals of pre twentieth century plays, adaptations of novels, these tend to be okay but writing something new on that scale? Writers would prefer the other spaces available.
You have to go back to Absence of War. Pravda and Amadeus (and that was 1979!) to find true hits that went straight to the Olivier.
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Post by Jan on Oct 8, 2017 14:07:01 GMT
It's not a good match for contemporary writing, the Olivier can cope with big statements and epic narratives but that's not really where writers are allowed to be, given the economics of pretty much every other theatre. The only way to do it well is to experience it and learn from it, even writers like Bartlett and Bean have stumbled when asked to write for there. Revivals of pre twentieth century plays, adaptations of novels, these tend to be okay but writing something new on that scale? Writers would prefer the other spaces available. You have to go back to Absence of War. Pravda and Amadeus (and that was 1979!) to find true hits that went straight to the Olivier. Agreed. So it is puzzling that that experience is being ignored. I did not think it meant much at the time but Tessa Ross’ quick departure from the NT at the start of the Norris era is beginning to look significant - she’s a proper producer with commercial experience. |
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Post by martin1965 on Oct 8, 2017 17:43:34 GMT
It's not a good match for contemporary writing, the Olivier can cope with big statements and epic narratives but that's not really where writers are allowed to be, given the economics of pretty much every other theatre. The only way to do it well is to experience it and learn from it, even writers like Bartlett and Bean have stumbled when asked to write for there. Revivals of pre twentieth century plays, adaptations of novels, these tend to be okay but writing something new on that scale? Writers would prefer the other spaces available. You have to go back to Absence of War. Pravda and Amadeus (and that was 1979!) to find true hits that went straight to the Olivier. I think we tend to forget Amadeus was almost 40 years ago! Pravda was i think 1985 so its been quite a while. |
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Post by lonlad on Oct 8, 2017 17:55:28 GMT
What about War Horse / The Coast of Utopia / His Dark Materials?
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Post by crowblack on Oct 8, 2017 18:58:47 GMT
Two of those were already very popular children's books so had an appeal beyond the usual theatre audience.
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Post by Jan on Oct 9, 2017 6:55:42 GMT
Two of those were already very popular children's books so had an appeal beyond the usual theatre audience. The choice of revivals for the Olivier looks doubtful too - "Exit the King" is sure to be a flop in there, can only work (if at all) in a much smaller space. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 8:17:59 GMT
What about War Horse / The Coast of Utopia / His Dark Materials? Reviews for Coast of Utopia were distinctly average calling it 'wildly uneven' (Guardian), 'a courageous failure' (Telegraph) and 'rambling and narratively garbled' (Independent).
The other two, as has been mentioned, are adaptations of novels.
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Post by Jan on Oct 9, 2017 11:29:38 GMT
What about War Horse / The Coast of Utopia / His Dark Materials? Reviews for Coast of Utopia were distinctly average calling it 'wildly uneven' (Guardian), 'a courageous failure' (Telegraph) and 'rambling and narratively garbled' (Independent).
Stoppard complained there had not been enough rehearsal time, it was significantly re-written for the USA production which was better received. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 2:56:03 GMT
To be fair, Saint George and the Dragon appears to have been written for the Olivier. It prompts memories of Danny Boyle's Isles of Wonder at London 2012, although it's far far less celebratory. The play might work even better in a northern theatre, cast to represent a specific locality. Julian Bleach is toweringly outstanding in The Grinning Man and I pity Londoners for seeing his Dragon first of the two because it seems a shadow role and may muffle the impact of The Grinning Man from December.
It seems silly to say, as someone does above, that the Olivier shouldn't present plays by writers unheard of by one individual. One person's ignorance is hardly a reliable guideline for a commissioning policy.
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Post by Jan on Oct 10, 2017 5:49:52 GMT
It seems silly to say, as someone does above, that the Olivier shouldn't present plays by writers unheard of by one individual. One person's ignorance is hardly a reliable guideline for a commissioning policy. A commissioning policy is different to a production policy. |
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Post by martin1965 on Oct 10, 2017 6:04:38 GMT
Reviews for Coast of Utopia were distinctly average calling it 'wildly uneven' (Guardian), 'a courageous failure' (Telegraph) and 'rambling and narratively garbled' (Independent).
Stoppard complained there had not been enough rehearsal time, it was significantly re-written for the USA production which was better received. Yes i recall it swept the Tonys. However i saw it on a trilogy saturday at the NT and loved it! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 7:53:00 GMT
Well it starts well with a Blackadder/Spamalot style romp and it's all rather endearing. By the interval they've brought the action forward to the Industrial Revolution. You're thinking it can't all be this light and frothy and after the interval it's not when we're brought up to date. It all then gets darker and more aimless, trying to make points about England today with overtones of Brexit. Mullarkey doesn't seem to have a clue where he is going with this and there is no proper ending at all; it just fizzles out! Maybe they'll improve the ending by press night but I can't see how without extensive re-writes. The cast is very good and Heffernan is superb but he's wasted on this. Hate to interrupt a good off-topic conversation, but I did just want to butt in and say I agree with tmesis. I enjoyed it a lot, and it's very bold of Rufus Norris to program a play where even the playwright doesn't know how it's going to end, but I don't know if I'd recommend it as a regular thing. Loved the dragon though, particularly in the first act, and Heffernan is forever the champion of my heart. |
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