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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:06:14 GMT
Delfont Macintosh have said the following:
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:06:38 GMT
OK yeah, I understand that, it probably didn't change the amount of casulties, I apologise.  Either way, the girl feels like sh*t, evidenced in her tweet.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:06:46 GMT
She must be feeling awful in a situation that was completely not her fault. *****************. No such thing as real music but there is such a thing as real empathy. |
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Post by Phantom of London on May 23, 2017 12:07:25 GMT
Whatever I say gets moderated out, even if it highlights the root cause of the incident, so nothing to talk or speak about, especially when this is a platform for debate, so I stay silent.
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Post by kathryn on May 23, 2017 12:08:11 GMT
Likewise I'm not old enough to remember but I read something earlier that pointed to Manchester Police at the time cracking down on anti-Irish hate crimes as well as working in counter terrorism in reference to the IRA history with Manchester. So it seems there was a bit of consensus of 'a bunch of extremist idiots not all Irish/Catholics' I'll have a poke about at lunchtime and see if I can find actual information. I don't remember there being an anti-Irish or anti-Catholic attitude at the time, or if there was it was low key. It was "IRA terrorism", not "Irish terrorism" or "Catholic terrorism", as far as the press was concerned. Irish terrorism was pretty indiscriminate, as I recall - Irish people were as likely to be the victims as the perpetrators, and atrocities were committed by both 'sides'. Victims were often the same religion as perpetrators. And it certainly wasn't the case that there always warnings/evacuations - I remember the Omagh bombing in 1998. For anyone who doesn't: www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/omagh_bomb |
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Post by infofreako on May 23, 2017 12:09:49 GMT
I really feel for all involved Ariana as a performer must feel awful. Its impossible to put yourself in those shoes and understand the impact it must've had hearing the news after the show
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:10:07 GMT
Islamic State claim responsibility for this act as detailed on BBC news at the moment However they also claimed responsibility for the Westminster attack and wasn't he just mentally ill? |
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 12:10:32 GMT
Very sad for Manchester today. Love that city, it's as vibrant a place as anywhere, and will surely continue to thrive. And I guess I know now who around here are the racists who would happily tar whole religions, regions, countries for the actions of a single criminal. Which is helpful to know. What race is Islam unless, by pure irony, you're being racist in claiming that only non whites are... 🤔 People are scared and are finally waking up to the threat from a section of the Islamic population. They are, of course, completely unrepresentative of the faith and the millions of Muslims who just want a quiet life like the majority of the World but that does not mean we should not be able to admit there is a problem. |
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 12:12:41 GMT
I don't remember there being an anti-Irish or anti-Catholic attitude at the time, or if there was it was low key. It was "IRA terrorism", not "Irish terrorism" or "Catholic terrorism", as far as the press was concerned. Irish terrorism was pretty indiscriminate, as I recall - Irish people were as likely to be the victims as the perpetrators, and atrocities were committed by both 'sides'. Victims were often the same religion as perpetrators. And it certainly wasn't the case that there always warnings/evacuations - I remember the Omagh bombing in 1998. For anyone who doesn't: www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/omagh_bombThe IRA not once declared a campaign or bomb was in the name of religion : just Irish independence... The two can not be compared. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:12:42 GMT
Islamic State claim responsibility for this act as detailed on BBC news at the moment However they also claimed responsibility for the Westminster attack and wasn't he just mentally ill? Isn't anyone involved in ISIS mentally ill anyway?! |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:15:09 GMT
Very sad for Manchester today. Love that city, it's as vibrant a place as anywhere, and will surely continue to thrive. And I guess I know now who around here are the racists who would happily tar whole religions, regions, countries for the actions of a single criminal. Which is helpful to know. What race is Islam unless, by pure irony, you're being racist in claiming that only non whites are... 🤔 People are scared and are finally waking up to the threat from a section of the Islamic population. They are, if course, completely unrepresentative of the faith and the millions of Muslims who just want a quiet life like the majority of the World but that does not mean we should not be able to admit there is a problem. Uk has dropped over 2000 bombs from drones in Iraq and Syria in less than 2 years. The Westminster attack man said it was revenge for the atrocities the west commit in Muslim nations.......... maybe if we stopped bombing, they would stop bombing? |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:16:56 GMT
It's sort of not necessarily helpful to suggest that people who commit atrocities are mentally ill. I think I'm the only neurotypical member of my friendship group (which does beg the use of the suffix "-typical" but hey) and none of them are bad people. While there's clearly something going on in the brain of a terrorist or a murderer or an extremist that isn't necessarily there in the bulk of the population, it could just be as simple as them being bad people. After all, the insanity plea isn't as common or as effective as overwrought courtroom dramas might have us believe.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:20:30 GMT
Also on a music note, to those planning to see any of Take Thats next three concerts (Liverpool and Manchester), the Liverpool date has now been postponed and the Manchester dates are very likely postponed as well.
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 12:29:53 GMT
What race is Islam unless, by pure irony, you're being racist in claiming that only non whites are... 🤔 People are scared and are finally waking up to the threat from a section of the Islamic population. They are, if course, completely unrepresentative of the faith and the millions of Muslims who just want a quiet life like the majority of the World but that does not mean we should not be able to admit there is a problem. Uk has dropped over 2000 bombs from drones in Iraq and Syria in less than 2 years. The Westminster attack man said it was revenge for the atrocities the west commit in Muslim nations.......... maybe if we stopped bombing, they would stop bombing? Yes, my apologies. We should let Islamic State reach their goal of acquiring more land and becoming an even bigger threat to the World...
I mean, thankfully we know that if we sit back and watch extremists take control of a country it won't affect us, will it? Al Queda, I think 9/11 fails to capture the best parts of their regime.
We are morally right to defend ourselves from the threat Islamic State presents.
How much bombing did we conduct prior to 9/11?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 23, 2017 12:30:23 GMT
With regard to material removed, the moderators feel most strongly that it is vital to avoid all inflammatory language - particularly under current circumstances.
We would ask that posters respect our decision at this time, thank you all. Whatever I say gets moderated out, even if it highlights the root cause of the incident, so nothing to talk or speak about, especially when this is a platform for debate, so I stay silent. That's because you keep using inflammatory language and making generalisations about race that some find offensive. And you know you're doing it, because you say in your posts "this will probably get deleted". So stop doing it, and you won't get moderated. We are not suppressing discussion or debate, but if you can't engage in that without using inflammatory language then yes it's probably better that you do stay silent. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:36:12 GMT
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Post by stefy69 on May 23, 2017 12:40:12 GMT
OH ! that is so so sad, can we all forget our differences for a moment and spare a kind thought for the little mite's loved ones.... |
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Post by Dave25 on May 23, 2017 12:45:25 GMT
Some people might say "It has nothing to do with Islam" and "small minded and hateful people are everywhere", but the real problem is when people act out of religion, and let their thoughts, deeds and identity be defined by one of thousands of made up gods, there is no real human responsibility. If they think they are doing things (good or bad) for a god, there is zero responsibility and reasoning possible. That is the dangerous part. Good deeds for a religion are also very disconnected from the true human mind. Just as bad deeds.
As long as we raise people with the idea that their identity is defined by a god/religion, we create people disconnected from the human mind and those people will never truly understand right from wrong.
These suicide bombers do it for their made up god, they have the delusion that it is their identity and are fully convinced that what they are doing is right. It's not like we are talking about evolved human minds here. They think Allah is patting them on their back and they go to heaven with 10 virgins. Even if the bomber would survive and spend the rest of his days in prison, he would still feel like a hero. This will not change, because a full identity was never formed. These people blow themselves up because paradise is promised. There is no other truth in their minds.
Many religious people think that gays must die too, just because. Just because one of their made up gods says so. No journey, no life experience, no reasoning, no learning. No truth.
I really think that laws should be sharpened, and kids in school should be taught that a person's identity does not come from religion. That those are 2 separate things. Until we start teaching THAT, nothing will be resolved.
Online I see some people saying: "you can't blame the reason out of which someone committed this crime, because other people make up different gods who are kind" is by no means the solution. In fact, thinking like that means you are part of the problem.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:48:21 GMT
Uk has dropped over 2000 bombs from drones in Iraq and Syria in less than 2 years. The Westminster attack man said it was revenge for the atrocities the west commit in Muslim nations.......... maybe if we stopped bombing, they would stop bombing? Yes, my apologies. We should let Islamic State reach their goal of acquiring more land and becoming an even bigger threat to the World...
I mean, thankfully we know that if we sit back and watch extremists take control of a country it won't affect us, will it? Al Queda, I think 9/11 fails to capture the best parts of their regime.
We are morally right to defend ourselves from the threat Islamic State presents.
How much bombing did we conduct prior to 9/11?
Only 22 countries have never been invaded by Britain supposedly Post 1980 and Pre 911 Muslim countries Britain has bombed - Lebanon, Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan Surely u Remember that after 911 we invaded Iraq? Who had nothing to do with 911 but had oil? Our country has done far more damage and murder to Islamic countries than we have had back I'm not being a dick and not being insulting to anyone affected by the bombing last night but I do find it perverse that people (not just on here) questioning what muslims are gonna do about these atrocities when they r themselves blinded at home [/quote] |
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Post by kathryn on May 23, 2017 12:49:36 GMT
Irish terrorism was pretty indiscriminate, as I recall - Irish people were as likely to be the victims as the perpetrators, and atrocities were committed by both 'sides'. Victims were often the same religion as perpetrators. And it certainly wasn't the case that there always warnings/evacuations - I remember the Omagh bombing in 1998. For anyone who doesn't: www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/omagh_bombThe IRA not once declared a campaign or bomb was in the name of religion : just Irish independence... The two can not be compared. The conflict was drawn on religious lines - it just happened to be 2 factions of the same religion. Worth remembering that Islam as a religion doesn't have the same kind of structures and institutions as Christianity - ISIS have no authority to declare what Islam is, and represent an extreme faction that also opposes differing interpretations of Islam as violently as it opposes the West. Most of its victims are other Muslims who oppose their views. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:50:17 GMT
Some people might say "It has nothing to do with Islam" and "small minded and hateful people are everywhere", but the real problem is when people act out of religion, and let their thoughts, deeds and identity be defined by one of thousands of made up gods, there is no real human responsibility. If they think they are doing things (good or bad) for a god, there is zero responsibility and reasoning possible. That is the dangerous part. Good deeds for a religion are also very disconnected from the true human mind. Just as bad deeds. As long as we raise people with the idea that their identity is defined by a god/religion, we create people disconnected from the human mind and those people will never truly understand right from wrong. These suicide bombers do it for their made up god, they have the delusion that it is their identity and are fully convinced that what they are doing is right. It's not like we are talking about evolved human minds here. They think Allah is patting them on their back and they go to heaven with 10 virgins. Even if the bomber would survive and spend the rest of his days in prison, he would still feel like a hero. This will not change, because a full identity was never formed. These people blow themselves up because paradise is promised. There is no other truth in their minds. Many religious people think that gays must die too, just because. Just because one of their made up gods says so. No journey, no life experience, no reasoning, no learning. No truth. I really think the laws should be sharpened, and kids in school should be taught that a person's identity does not come from religion. That those are 2 separate things. Until we start teaching THAT, nothing will be resolved. Online I see some people saying: "you can't blame the reason out of which someone committed a crime, because other people make up different gods" is by no means the solution. In fact, thinking like that means you are part of the problem. But our country commits far worse atrocities and we are a "secular" state! We are doing it for greed!! |
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 12:59:58 GMT
The IRA not once declared a campaign or bomb was in the name of religion : just Irish independence... The two can not be compared. The conflict was drawn on religious lines - it just happened to be 2 factions of the same religion. Worth remembering that Islam as a religion doesn't have the same kind of structures and institutions as Christianity - ISIS have no authority to declare what Islam is, and represent an extreme faction that also opposes differing interpretations of Islam as violently as it opposes the West. Most of its victims are other Muslims who oppose their views. Wrong. Totally wrong.
The IRA had protestant members and supporters.
Some Catholics are Unionists.
Find me ONE declaration by the IRA about fighting for Catholicism...
I come from a VERY politicalised Irish Catholic family by the way and know what I am talking about.
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Post by Dave25 on May 23, 2017 13:17:00 GMT
" Laws should be sharpened, and kids in school should be taught that a person's identity does not come from religion. That those are 2 separate things. Until we start teaching THAT, nothing will be resolved."
This also goes for the gays in Atjeh, Indonesia who are publicly humiliated with 81 stick beatings each on a public stage right now, and In Mosul, Iraq, where gays are thrown off rooftops of high buildings DAILY at the moment, with loud clapping and cheering of audiences. The laws there are defined by Islam and 99% of the population is Muslim.
But of course there's only peace and those acts come from some bad exceptions (while the law and police and the rest of the country is cheering and clapping and actually organizing the events).
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 13:29:03 GMT
This also goes for the gays in Atjeh, Indonesia who are publicly humiliated with 81 stick beatings each on a public stage right now, and In Mosul, Iraq, where gays are thrown off rooftops of high buildings DAILY at the moment, with loud clapping and cheering of audiences. The laws there are defined by Islam and 99% of the population is Muslim. But of course there's only peace and those acts come from some bad exceptions (while the law and police and the rest of the country is cheering and clapping and actually organizing the events). Actually it's 85% of Iraq that is muslim so apologies if I doubt that the whole country are applauding homosexual murder. Don't let ur emotions get in the way of facts |
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Post by jadnoop on May 23, 2017 13:33:41 GMT
Some people might say "It has nothing to do with Islam" and "small minded and hateful people are everywhere", but the real problem is when people act out of religion, and let their thoughts, deeds and identity be defined by one of thousands of made up gods, there is no real human responsibility. If they think they are doing things (good or bad) for a god, there is zero responsibility and reasoning possible. That is the dangerous part. Good deeds for a religion are also very disconnected from the true human mind. Just as bad deeds. As long as we raise people with the idea that their identity is defined by a god/religion, we create people disconnected from the human mind and those people will never truly understand right from wrong. These suicide bombers do it for their made up god, they have the delusion that it is their identity and are fully convinced that what they are doing is right. It's not like we are talking about evolved human minds here. They think Allah is patting them on their back and they go to heaven with 10 virgins. Even if the bomber would survive and spend the rest of his days in prison, he would still feel like a hero. This will not change, because a full identity was never formed. These people blow themselves up because paradise is promised. There is no other truth in their minds. Many religious people think that gays must die too, just because. Just because one of their made up gods says so. No journey, no life experience, no reasoning, no learning. No truth. I really think that laws should be sharpened, and kids in school should be taught that a person's identity does not come from religion. That those are 2 separate things. Until we start teaching THAT, nothing will be resolved. Online I see some people saying: "you can't blame the reason out of which someone committed this crime, because other people make up different gods who are kind" is by no means the solution. In fact, thinking like that means you are part of the problem. I, like many people here I imagine, am an atheist but imo language that you've used doesn't help at all. Phrasing about "their made up gods", and "it's not like we're talking about evolved human minds here" simply erects barriers to discourse. Reducing people down to being defined simply by their religion ignores the complex relationship that most people have with their religion. You say "If they think they are doing things for a god, there is zero responsibility and reasoning possible." as though religious people can't be conflicted about how they behave, and make sweeping generalisations that cover billions of people. The reality is that people aren't simple binaries, and your somewhat cloaked implication that the world would be more peaceful/enlightened if religion didn't exist is pretty much meaningless, just like saying that hooliganism would go away if we banned football. |
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