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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 18:51:05 GMT
If you really believe that the only extremists that exist are Muslim then you need to open your eyes and join the real world. Extremists come in all forms of religion and none, and blaming one religious group as you seem intent on doing is not going to help anyone. The only one lessening the seriousness of the situation is you through your refusal to accept that Islam and extremism are not the same thing. Extremism is far more complex than a simple link with a religious label, and you don't seem to recognise that. So what's the common denominator of the overwhelming terrorist attacks in Europe or have I missed something? What's your solution? This has already been said, what links Bataclan, Breivik and Belfast is ideology that sees others as inferior human beings. Sometimes nationalism, sometimes religion, sometimes political. The US has equal problems with Islamists and Right Wing terrorism, thankfully the latter, since Breivik, and apart from lone attacks like Mair aren't as big a problem here. |
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 19:01:08 GMT
So what's the common denominator of the overwhelming terrorist attacks in Europe or have I missed something? What's your solution? Others have already given you examples but apparently they are insufficient, presumably as they don't suit your argument. You're missing the broader point that your generalisation is wrong, but I can only bang my head against a brick wall so many times before it starts to hurt so I'm not going to go repeating myself again. I never said there was a solution, I don't profess to be any kind of counter-terrorism expert. But I do know what the solution is not - it is not bigotry, racism, xenophobia or any kind of generalisation or marginalisation of people based on their religion, culture or anything else. If we allow these kind of atrocities to breed intolerance and bigotry, then the terrorists, whatever their professed culture or creed, have won. So rather than offer a solution you naturally fall back upon the easy solution of labelling people as racist (remind me how Islam is a race) or xenophobic (remind me what country Islam is)... The problem is warped interpretations of Islam. The second problem is that people like you are so terrified by the prospect of being labelled as racists that you refuse to admit that truth. The police in Rochdale were restricted by the fear of being labelled racist and you know where that ended up... The problem is with a minority of Muslims but Muslims they are. You can come up with a few and far between non Muslim terrorists to make you feel superior if you like but the problem won't go away. A section of the Muslim community is a serious threat to our lifestyle and lives. And do you know what? Coming up with a handful of non Muslim terrorism attacks won't save you and/or your friends when they target theatres or gay bars... It's going to happen. |
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Post by hal9000 on May 23, 2017 19:09:50 GMT
So what's the common denominator of the overwhelming terrorist attacks in Europe or have I missed something? What's your solution? What's YOUR solution? Because to me it seems like your desire is to make everyone say and repeat "Muslims Bad! Muslims Bad!". |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 19:19:35 GMT
So what's the common denominator of the overwhelming terrorist attacks in Europe or have I missed something? What's your solution? What's YOUR solution? Because to me it seems like your desire is to make everyone say and repeat "Muslims Bad! Muslims Bad!". Beware those who offer such simplistic reasoning and solutions, when it comes down to it they suck up to Saudi princes, trading any credibility for the sake of an arms deal. This is where the alt right ends up, bluster and hate becomes cowardice and hypocrisy. One of Trump's lackies even praised Saudi for not having anyone protest against them. That's because they have political protesters beheaded! Clearly Islamist extremism is just negotiable for a price. The most prolific sponsor of Islamic terrorism is just fine and dandy. |
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Post by ShoesForRent on May 23, 2017 19:23:23 GMT
----Well, seeing the post after mine, I guess it's just not worth it.----
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 19:24:27 GMT
So what's the common denominator of the overwhelming terrorist attacks in Europe or have I missed something? What's your solution? What's YOUR solution? Because to me it seems like your desire is to make everyone say and repeat "Muslims Bad! Muslims Bad!". Ban new mosques from opening for 10 years and change the laws about how long suspected Islamist extremists can be held without charge. Also fine the Internet providers for not blocking extremist sites. I can't watch dodgy film streams on Virgin media but these scum can look at how to make a bomb and the latest IS propaganda FFS! |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 19:31:21 GMT
Where's the block user function on this board?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 19:53:44 GMT
Many posts removed.
Refrain from getting personal, please.
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Post by hal9000 on May 23, 2017 19:55:20 GMT
What's YOUR solution? Because to me it seems like your desire is to make everyone say and repeat "Muslims Bad! Muslims Bad!". Ban new mosques from opening for 10 years and change the laws about how long suspected Islamist extremists can be held without charge. Also fine the Internet providers for not blocking extremist sites. I can't watch dodgy film streams on Virgin media but these scum can look at how to make a bomb and the latest IS propaganda FFS! I honestly thank you for taking me seriously and responding. But what you propose does nothing in practical terms to stop disaffected young men enacting violent acts of destruction on people they despise. It doesn't stop them from using the dark web. It doesn't stop them congregating. Any more than people of a generation past were prevented from distributing gestetner prints of The Anarchist Cookbook or meeting in abandoned warehouses. The problem isn't access to information. The problem is disaffected young men who despise great groups of people and take out their hatred and self-loathing in the for, of mass murder. They are to a man self-aggrandising fundamentalists. It is foolhardy to assume that your average Muslim chemistry teacher or plumber who prays in a mosque has more in common with Islamist terrorists than, say, failed Mens Rights Activist killer Elliot Rodger. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 19:56:41 GMT
The solution?
"Keep calm and carry on"
A bit of a cliche now but the perfect, and very British, response.
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Post by hal9000 on May 23, 2017 19:58:05 GMT
The solution? "Keep calm and carry on" A bit of a cliche now but the perfect, and very British, response. As a non-Brit, I could not agree more. |
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 19:58:21 GMT
Ban new mosques from opening for 10 years and change the laws about how long suspected Islamist extremists can be held without charge. Also fine the Internet providers for not blocking extremist sites. I can't watch dodgy film streams on Virgin media but these scum can look at how to make a bomb and the latest IS propaganda FFS! I honestly thank you for taking me seriously and responding. But what you propose does nothing in practical terms to stop disaffected young men enacting violent acts of destruction on people they despise. It doesn't stop them from using the dark web. It doesn't stop them congregating. Any more than people of a generation past were prevented from distributing gestetner prints of The Anarchist Cookbook or meeting in abandoned warehouses. The problem isn't access to information. The problem is disaffected young men who despise great groups of people and take out their hatred and self-loathing in the for, of mass murder. They are to a man self-aggrandising fundamentalists. It is foolhardy to assume that your average Muslim chemistry teacher or plumber who prays in a mosque has more in common with Islamist terrorists than, say, failed Mens Rights Activist killer Elliot Rodger. Thank you for taking the time to offer a constructive post and not falling into "you're racist/xenophobic/an idiot" mode as others with no solutions have done... I agree with some of your points. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 19:59:17 GMT
I'm glad the personal attack toward me was removed, as I reported it. But there are still some extremely offensive things in the last few pages of this thread but for the sake of peace I'm saying nothing.
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 20:01:22 GMT
I'm glad the personal attack toward me was removed, as I reported it. But there are still some extremely offensive things in the last few pages of this thread but for the sake of peace I'm saying nothing. There are no extremely offensive posts on here and haven't been. They are opinions and in the real world you will encounter them. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 20:02:29 GMT
I'm glad the personal attack toward me was removed, as I reported it. But there are still some extremely offensive things in the last few pages of this thread but for the sake of peace I'm saying nothing. There are no extremely offensive posts on here and haven't been. They are opinions and in the real world you will encounter them. Disrespectful comments are never OK.
And there have been disrespectful comments previously. They were removed for a reason.
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 20:05:20 GMT
There are no extremely offensive posts on here and haven't been. They are opinions and in the real world you will encounter them. Disrespectful comments are never OK. Which disrespectful comments are remaining on here? I apologise for getting personal with you but I do find it incredibly frustrating that as someone who had admitted that he finds politics too hard to understand was so critical of a proposed solution. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 20:10:20 GMT
Disrespectful comments are never OK. Which disrespectful comments are remaining on here? I apologise for getting personal with you but I do find it incredibly frustrating that as someone who had admitted that he finds politics too hard to understand was so critical of a proposed solution. You know which comment I find disrespectful, I called you out on it earlier in the deleted comment.
And I stand by what I said, you don't have to understand politics to be a good person and understand you cannot stop worship for good, hard working Muslim people, for the sake of a select few evil people.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 23, 2017 20:13:59 GMT
Folks. Please play nice.
It's been busy moderating this forum today, we have day jobs just like you!
That's not a complaint, it's what the admin team are here for and that's fine. But you could help a bit by just thinking about how your posts might be construed by others.
Read it and think about it before you hit that submit button please.
We would really appreciate that.
Thank you.
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Post by edmundokeano on May 23, 2017 20:14:58 GMT
Which disrespectful comments are remaining on here? I apologise for getting personal with you but I do find it incredibly frustrating that as someone who had admitted that he finds politics too hard to understand was so critical of a proposed solution. You know which comment I find disrespectful, I called you out on it earlier in the deleted comment.
And I stand by what I said, you don't have to understand politics to be a good person and understand you cannot stop worship for good, hard working Muslim people, for the sake of a select few evil people.
No one is suggesting preventing Muslims from praying. That would be disgusting and I would happily march against it. What is a problem, however, is new Mosques. They are not normally regulated by the same strict controls as established ones and attract converts who are normally more prone to committing terrorism. The nutters go on about hook hand but never acknowledge that Finsbury Park Mosque banned him. The established mosques are a fine example of Islam as a honorable World faith for the most part. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 20:23:16 GMT
You know which comment I find disrespectful, I called you out on it earlier in the deleted comment.
And I stand by what I said, you don't have to understand politics to be a good person and understand you cannot stop worship for good, hard working Muslim people, for the sake of a select few evil people.
No one is suggesting preventing Muslims from praying. That would be disgusting and I would happily march against it. What is a problem, however, is new Mosques. They are not normally regulated by the same strict controls as established ones and attract converts who are normally more prone to committing terrorism. The nutters go on about hook hand but never acknowledge that Finsbury Park Mosque banned him. The established mosques are a fine example of Islam as a honorable World faith for the most part. The population of Muslims in the UK is ever-growing, which is a great thing, it is amazing to have so much diversity in the UK. But Mosques are getting more and more overcrowded as we move with the times. New Mosques have to open every once in a while in order to accommodate everyone, and that is something that cannot and should not be stopped.
And my main issue that lead to me reporting your posts wasn't that, it was the attempt of using my knowledge levels against me that upset me. Because it has nothing to do with this discussion and I shouldn't be made to feel crap over something I clearly am limited too, especially when I have made it clear on this board several times that I am trying to better myself in the political area and have already done so.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 20:32:54 GMT
My post was in no way labelling you anything, I was yet again making a broader point about how this affects all aspects of society and all religions and cultures, which you again seem to have missed. Though having said that your posts are coming across as condoning religious discrimination against Muslims, which sickens me as much as Trump's ban. Your so-called solution would be equally ineffective.
You still haven't explained why this is not a cross-religious problem. Just because there may be fewer examples of acts of hatred and violence from other religions currently in the news doesn't mean that the ones that do exist are any less significant or that they haven't existed in the past. It's undeniable that they have, and they may do so again. Hatred, extremism and irrationality never have been and never will be the preserve of one religion or none, no matter how much one might want to conveniently dump all the blame on a particular group.
If you'd bothered to actually read my post I said I hadn't offered a solution because I don't think there is one, and I am no specialist in counter-extremism and would never profess to be. As I stated, it's equally important to recognise what can never be a solution, and as history has told us time and time again, policies that discriminate against and marginalise certain groups in society do not work, in fact they quite often do the opposite.
And I'm not even going to dignify your last paragraph with a response save to say that it's unsurprisingly full of incorrect assumptions about me and others on here, and frankly I think the tone of your whole post is offensive.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 20:41:26 GMT
Please all be calm
We all have different opinions
And I don't want people getting upset with each other
Life is too short
As we have seen
We must stick together
Try to be positive
And let people be
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Post by stuartmcd on May 23, 2017 20:47:28 GMT
Threat level raised to critical
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 20:51:35 GMT
Please everyone be safe when travelling, going to the theatre or concerts or to heavily populated venues for shopping or other recreational activities over the next few weeks, we don't want any of our little family to come to any harm! www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40023488 |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 21:01:30 GMT
Please all be calm We all have different opinions And I don't want people getting upset with each other Life is too short As we have seen We must stick together Try to be positive And let people be I think that might be my first ever Parsley "like" 😆 Seriously, everthing he said ^^ We should not be arguing over scum Who don't warrant any of our precious time It's toxic and non productive Instead channel energies into doing good And helping others who have suffered |
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