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Post by tonyloco on Sept 9, 2017 22:42:14 GMT
What, another religious group? It's last owner was also a religious group but they apparently got fewer punters than ENO at the Coliseum which is why it had to be sold just now. It was a wonderful theatre and I saw several shows there including a variety bill with Bud Flanagan (great personality) and a production of Maid of the Mountains with Douglas Byng as the Governor. I also went to several BBC recordings of 'Friday Night is Music Night'. So sad it can't join Wimbledon, Richmond and Bromley as one of London's peripheral theatres.
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490 posts
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Post by bimse on Sept 10, 2017 20:19:17 GMT
That's two empty theatres on the outskirts of Manchester then. The Hulme Hippodrome, Tameside Theatre/Hippodrome, plus the Theatre Royal on Peter St, directly inbetween the Palace Theatre and the Opera House . Apparently the latter is owned by the Edwardian Group who own the hotel constructed within the old Free Trade Hall, directly next door to the Theatre Royal. Its use as a nightclub etc have not damaged the interior , the actual theatre fittings have just been covered up to accommodate changes of use. Mant years ago my late brother did some referencing on the building on behalf of the inland revenue, and he assured me this was the case.
I love old theatres!
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Post by loureviews on Sept 16, 2017 15:02:30 GMT
Sadly, Golders Green Hippodrome is lost to live theatre, as it has been sold to a religious group for prayer and community use instead. How sad, but not unexpected. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 19:45:55 GMT
Anyone have any idea how much it would cost to buy an average sized West End theatre? Must be millions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 20:17:15 GMT
£15 to £20 million or so, I'd estimate. I better keep saving then. |
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Post by Jon on Oct 9, 2017 20:27:09 GMT
It’ll vary on size and location, The Palladium probably costs more than the Playhouse for example.
ATG paid £90m for the Live Nation theatres but that was mostly for the regional theatres. I’m not sure what Nederlander paid to acquire LN stake in the Dominion but I imagine it was a couple of million, I do wonder how much Cameron paid for the VP and the Ambassadors, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cameron got the VP at a lower price in exchange for paying for the refurb
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 11:31:01 GMT
I found an article that says ALW sold the Palace, Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's Theatre for an estimated sum of about £50 million. That would make it about £12.5 each. But of course some are bigger than the others, so the smaller ones probably cost around £10 million. Something like the Noël Coward would probably go for under £10 million I suppose, especially since it's not very modern.
EDIT: Just did a quick check and turns out he didn't actually sell the Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's. But it seems to have been the plan to do so.
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5,161 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Oct 10, 2017 13:19:27 GMT
The simple answer is a theatre is worth whatever someone (an individual or company) is prepared to pay for it. In reality, it is of course much more complicated than that.
Even by my usual standards this is going to get quite boring, so please fell free to stop reading now. I shan't be offended.
The real value, especially in central London, is in the land, because, as the saying goes, they aren't making anymore. The problems really start if some well meaning Victorian or Edwardian built a theatre on top! As 33 of the West End theatres are listed, and must therefore be maintained to a certain standard, the liabilities are huge. However much is invested in a listed theatre will never be reflected in the resale value.
Let's take the Victoria Palace as an example. Cam Mack agreed to pay £26,130,000 for the VP, with £21,130,000 paid in cash on completion, and the remaining £5,000,000 held in escrew as contingency, to be paid between September 2016 and December 2019. It has already been 'negotiated' that the final consideration will be reduced by at least £1,750,000, so the maximum that will be paid for the VP is now £24,380,000. As we have seen, it will probably be somewhat less than that.
Anyway, as you were.
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7,199 posts
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Post by Jon on Oct 10, 2017 13:56:10 GMT
I found an article that says ALW sold the Palace, Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's Theatre for an estimated sum of about £50 million. That would make it about £12.5 each. But of course some are bigger than the others, so the smaller ones probably cost around £10 million. Something like the Noël Coward would probably go for under £10 million I suppose, especially since it's not very modern. EDIT: Just did a quick check and turns out he didn't actually sell the Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's. But it seems to have been the plan to do so. ALW did originally sell those theatres to GradeLinnit but it fell through due to contract issues |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 16:28:55 GMT
The simple answer is a theatre is worth whatever someone (an individual or company) is prepared to pay for it. In reality, it is of course much more complicated than that. Even by my usual standards this is going to get quite boring, so please fell free to stop reading now. I shan't be offended. The real value, especially in central London, is in the land, because, as the saying goes, they aren't making anymore. The problems really start if some well meaning Victorian or Edwardian built a theatre on top! As 33 of the West End theatres are listed, and must therefore be maintained to a certain standard, the liabilities are huge. However much is invested in a listed theatre will never be reflected in the resale value. Let's take the Victoria Palace as an example. Cam Mack agreed to pay £26,130,000 for the VP, with £21,130,000 paid in cash on completion, and the remaining £5,000,000 held in escrew as contingency, to be paid between September 2016 and December 2019. It has already been 'negotiated' that the final consideration will be reduced by at least £1,750,000, so the maximum that will be paid for the VP is now £24,380,000. As we have seen, it will probably be somewhat less than that. Anyway, as you were. That was actually a very interesting answer. Thank you! Where did you find those numbers? I've looked long and hard on the internet to find some prices but could never find anything specific. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 17:29:06 GMT
£15 to £20 million or so, I'd estimate. I'll take two. |
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5,161 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Oct 11, 2017 13:26:09 GMT
Interesting? Me? Are you sure @pointone ? Since it stopped charging, Companies House has become a more accessible mine of information. This is the link for Victoria Palace Theatre Ltd, but you can also search for anything and everything at your leisure, if you are that interested. beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09146317/filing-history |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 17:12:10 GMT
Interesting? Me? Are you sure @pointone ? Since it stopped charging, Companies House has become a more accessible mine of information. This is the link for Victoria Palace Theatre Ltd, but you can also search for anything and everything at your leisure, if you are that interested. beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09146317/filing-historyWell, I'm a rather boring chap myself who actually finds this kind of stuff interesting  Thanks for the link! |
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Post by bellboard27 on Jan 24, 2018 7:10:57 GMT
The Theatre Royal Haymarket is up for sale (well a less than 70 year lease of a crown property).
Place your bids please!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 7:50:18 GMT
Interesting! More on this here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42788568Wonder who it will go to - I presume one of the big theatre groups. Feels to me that it either needs that (with the opportunities for cross-promotion etc), or to be run on the lines of the Old Vic or something like the Branagh or Grandage West End seasons with a planned programme rather than as a receiving house for random stuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 8:04:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 10:54:52 GMT
The Theatre Royal Haymarket is up for sale (well a less than 70 year lease of a crown property). Place your bids please! Marvellous. I'll take it. I found some spare change at the back of the sofa last night so it must be kismet. In fact, that might well be my first show. |
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 11:47:36 GMT
Interesting! More on this here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42788568Wonder who it will go to - I presume one of the big theatre groups. Feels to me that it either needs that (with the opportunities for cross-promotion etc), or to be run on the lines of the Old Vic or something like the Branagh or Grandage West End seasons with a planned programme rather than as a receiving house for random stuff. They did do in-house productions for a time but reverted back to receiving and co-producing shows. My guess for the bidders is Nimax, ATG or Trafalgar Entertainment if Panter and Squire are interested in acquiring another theatre |
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Post by Rory on Jan 24, 2018 12:43:08 GMT
I could also see Sir Cameron raiding his piggy bank!
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7,199 posts
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 12:53:26 GMT
I could also see Sir Cameron raiding his piggy bank! I don’t see Cameron buying another theatre since he’s going to spending a fair bit of money on turning the Ambassadors into the Sondheim |
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Post by TallPaul on Jan 24, 2018 13:21:31 GMT
There are, of course, other costs, but between all Board members we could easily afford the annual rent, which is just £1,000.
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7,199 posts
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 13:29:18 GMT
I do think the reasons for selling by the leaseholders blaming streaming services like Netflix and Amazon for big names not coming to the theatre is a bit suspect and all the other theatre owners haven’t had issues attracting plays with top talent. I suspect being an independent theatre operator means they can’t compete with the big boys
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5,707 posts
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Post by lynette on Jan 24, 2018 15:27:54 GMT
Short lease is a problem. Wonder how much they want to extend?
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7,199 posts
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 15:33:51 GMT
Short lease is a problem. Wonder how much they want to extend? 68 years isn't exactly short! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 15:58:56 GMT
Short lease is a problem. Wonder how much they want to extend? 68 years isn't exactly short! It's not that long either. If the buyer sells it after 25 years there'll only be 43 years left so it'll be less valuable, especially as prospective buyers at that time will be thinking about the number of years left when they want to sell. |
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