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Post by ncbears on Mar 7, 2017 4:22:28 GMT
I don't want to be too snarky or too much of a grammar police officer or to cue Henry Higgins - but the phrase is "should have" not "should of." You can contract "should have" to "should've" if you want to keep the phonetics. Next?
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Post by showgirl on Mar 7, 2017 4:33:32 GMT
Well said, ggersten, and something I have long thought. I can understand typos and text speak when people are posting from mobiles, but as well as irking me, it has always puzzled me that theatre-goers, many of whom you would expect to be educated and literate, should display such basic grammatical ignorance.
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Post by 49thand8th on Mar 7, 2017 4:42:16 GMT
Other pet peeve:
Quoting an entire post and just adding, "This."
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Post by ncbears on Mar 7, 2017 5:16:42 GMT
Other pet peeve: Quoting an entire post and just adding, "This." This. But, I understand why someone would make such a comment. It is, in some ways, superior to a simple "I agree with X" post, because then I have to look to find X's post. I don't really mind if someone agrees with a prior comment - but I do think the poster could still add in something original, rather than just a "this". |
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Post by 49thand8th on Mar 7, 2017 5:17:49 GMT
I also hate it on social media as well. Even if it's accompanied by an article someone's sharing on FB. It's concise, sure, but it also feels like a lazy cop-out.
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Post by ali973 on Mar 7, 2017 5:18:24 GMT
Not a grammatical or mechanical pet peeve, but I find "surely, XYZ.." a bit aggressive. No, not surely!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 5:50:12 GMT
the phrase is "should have" not "should of." That annoys me too. It's not even as if "should have" is some weird idiom that requires rote learning. It's perfectly regular: I have eaten I could have eaten I should have eaten I would have eaten There's no form "I of eaten" from which "could of" can be derived. Even if it sounds a bit like "of", ofn't these people ever seen it written down? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 6:27:04 GMT
Yes, thank you! I thought this too, only yesterday but as usual I self corrected it in my head and moved on. I find it most irritating when I hear faux pas around my workplace. How can we ever expect our children to learn when staff members have an incorrect usage of the English language? This week already I've heard "You done a really good job today" from a TA. I mean, what??! Another, not grammatical error but one that made me cringe nonetheless: "I'm coming round to check your letter formation, I'm going to be such a handwriting Nazi"  |
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Post by showgirl on Mar 7, 2017 6:58:19 GMT
I too shudder silently at the inappropriate use of "Nazi". Last time I heard it it was by a younger person where I volunteer. She used it so casually but for older people, whose parents lived through the war, etc - never mind for those who may have lost relatives - it jars.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 7:11:52 GMT
Thank goodness someone has raised the 'could of' thing... This has bugged me for ages but I thought if I brought it up it would go down like a lead balloon. Champagne for ggersten!
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Post by altamont on Mar 7, 2017 7:17:03 GMT
Thank goodness someone has raised the 'could of' thing... This has bugged me for ages but I thought if I brought it up it would go down like a lead balloon. Champagne for ggersten! Couldn't of put it better myself! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 7:22:46 GMT
Oh yes... 'gotten'. I don't like this at all. (Except in American texts where it belongs.)
Misplaced or missing apostophes...? 'dont', 'do'nt'... and then there's the commonly misspelt 'musn't', not to mention shoving one in at the end of any plural ending in s such as 'theatre's', 'character's' and 'actor's'.
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Post by Phantom of London on Mar 7, 2017 8:02:51 GMT
What a load of elitist rubbish. Next you will have to sit the 11+ to be able to go on a theatre forum.
Some members need to get their heads out of their arse.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 8:10:04 GMT
Oops! Lead balloon just landed with a bump along with several passengers all trying to get their heads out of one arse. (The pilot's?)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 8:26:25 GMT
While I'm all for trying to use correct language (and could of/should of) is an example of that, I do really despise the notion of 'grammar Nazi' whereby it's become 'cool' to pick on people for their mistakes in grammar, spelling or punctuation.
Firstly the flippant use of Nazi, to me is jarring and personally I don't like it outside of its literal context. However that's not the main reason I find it irksome. As someone with dyslexia, it really harks of being back in the playground and being pointed at and mocked for making mistakes. Of course the majority of such 'transgressions' or 'affronts to the whole world' as they're seen won't be made by dyslexics (or other issues) but the point is you don't know. Pointing out the errors, as actually this thread does politely and saying 'this is incorrect and it irritates me' isn't so bad, and might actually be helpful. But mostly the 'grammar Nazi' is there hunting down people and mocking them from a position of perceived superiority, and I personally hate that.
Someone a while back made a comment where they mocked dyslexia, and although they apologised and realised it was the wrong approach, I think it's unfair that somehow mistakes like this, are perfectly fine to mock and act superior to.
(it also makes fun of people who for whatever reason don't have the same level of education as this 'elite' group with perfect spelling and grammar)
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Post by Kim_Bahorel on Mar 7, 2017 8:29:43 GMT
The "should have should of" really doesn't bother me. I'm from south east London everyone says should of. They might not write it like that but they say it. On the subject of grammer itself, I find it difficult, I find it difficult to read and how to structure sentances. For me those little things just don't bother me.
The same goes with "gotten" I have written that many times. We say it like that in SE London.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 8:46:23 GMT
The "should have should of" really doesn't bother me. I'm from south east London everyone says should of. They might not write it like that but they say it. On the subject of grammer itself, I find it difficult, I find it difficult to read and how to structure sentances. For me those little things just don't bother me. The same goes with "gotten" I have written that many times. We say it like that in SE London. Most of us "swallow" the 'have' when we speak, so that it actually sounds more like 'of' than 'have', hence the misunderstanding and subsequent mistake. But once you're told about it, it really isn't that difficult to grasp, is it? (And, for the record, so far no-one has been named, picked on or ridiculed.) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 8:50:38 GMT
The "should have should of" really doesn't bother me. I'm from south east London everyone says should of. They might not write it like that but they say it. On the subject of grammer itself, I find it difficult, I find it difficult to read and how to structure sentances. For me those little things just don't bother me. The same goes with "gotten" I have written that many times. We say it like that in SE London. Most of us "swallow" the 'have' when we speak, so that it actually sounds more like 'of' than 'have', hence the misunderstanding and subsequent mistake. But once you're told about it, it really isn't that difficult to grasp, is it? (And, for the record, so far no-one has been named, picked on or ridiculed.) I assume that last comment is directed at me?
I wasn't accusing anyone on the forum, I was just expressing a dislike of the general practice/attitude of self proclaimed 'grammar Nazis'
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Post by Someone in a tree on Mar 7, 2017 8:53:28 GMT
I am diagnosed with dyslexia. I try to 'do good' on here but I save the sweat for the office. To me this forum is fun and interesting
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 8:55:13 GMT
I am diagnosed with dyslexia. I try to 'do good' on here but I save the sweat for the office. To me this forum is fun and interesting Same. I save my excessive proof reading for my professional writing, and generally I like to think friends on social media and forums are not looking for degree level writing skills just to gossip about theatre  |
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Post by Tibidabo on Mar 7, 2017 9:02:11 GMT
Someone a while back made a comment where they mocked dyslexia, and although they apologised and realised it was the wrong approach, I think it's unfair that somehow mistakes like this, are perfectly fine to mock and act superior to. That was me and I absolutely refute the fact that a) I mocked dyslexia and b) I apologised when I "realised it was the wrong approach."I made a joke, calling something 'dyslexic carp.' The post had several 'likes.' The fact that you chose to be offended on the part of people with dyslexia was the reason I apologised. I chose not to justify it at the time and moved on. I really can't see how that was in any shape or form 'mocking' dyslexia. What long memories some people on this forum have. As to the whole theme of this thread. Hold on tight everyone, but I am in total agreement with Phantom of London here. We are in danger of people worrying that they may not have a level of English 'high' enough to give their opinions on this forum and feeling that we are judging them. If I were made to think I wasn't 'intellectual' enough I'd soon sod off elsewhere. For the record, I also dislike bad English. @tom89 it's not just TAs who have a problem. My headmistress wrote "meeting at 1.PM with LSA's" on the staffroom whiteboard recently. But it wasn't anyone's place to humiliate her and, whilst I agree no one has named names, I don't doubt there are people now wondering if this is directed at them and whether or not it is alright for them to post. I think this thread should be removed before we alienate people or put off any newbies having a look around. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 9:04:36 GMT
Someone a while back made a comment where they mocked dyslexia, and although they apologised and realised it was the wrong approach, I think it's unfair that somehow mistakes like this, are perfectly fine to mock and act superior to. That was me and I absolutely refute the fact that a) I mocked dyslexia and b) I apologised when I "realised it was the wrong approach."I made a joke, calling something 'dyslexic carp.' The post had several 'likes.' The fact that you chose to be offended on the part of people with dyslexia was the reason I apologised. I chose not to justify it at the time and moved on. I really can't see how that was in any shape or form 'mocking' dyslexia. What long memories some people on this forum have. I disagree. You wouldn't see it fit to call something *insert racist term here* or "downs syndrome crap" or anything else. You used a term that is a disability to refer to a theatre piece being 'crap' you used the term relating to a condition that affects people and their lives as a equation for 'crap' how is that not insulting? |
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Post by viserys on Mar 7, 2017 9:07:27 GMT
Being a foreigner with English as a second language, I'm not all that keen on grammar nazis either (and as a German, I'm also not all that keen to see the term nazi bandied about like that). I once left a text-based roleplaying game online because some self-proclaimed protector of the game chastisied me for using "too modern" terms instead of what he deemed appropriately medieval (i.e. "pub" instead of "tavern"). I started noticing that I was starting to worry so much about writing something "wrong" that I couldn't enjoy the game anymore and quit.
So I fully understand that people here on the forum don't want to have to worry about spelling errors and such (me included). I rather have a well-written review with a few spelling mistakes than a perfectly spelled unfair diss of something or someone. But I've always found the whole "should of" thing puzzling because it's so obviously wrong and yet it's being used so very often.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 9:11:32 GMT
As someone with dyslexia, it really harks of being back in the playground and being pointed at and mocked for making mistakes. There are some mistakes that are down to things like dyslexia and some that are down to not having English as a first language, but the sort of mistakes that have legitimate causes tend to follow patterns. Russians sometimes omit articles where English requires them, for example, and some languages that are heavy in gender inflection result in people using "he" and "she" where a native English speaker would use "it". The mistakes being criticised here aren't those sorts of mistakes. It's obviously poor form to pick on people who are struggling with learning a new language or who have dyslexia, but we shouldn't go too far the other way and adopt an attitude of "being wrong is just as good as being right". The sort of mistakes we're talking about aren't the sort of mistakes that require higher education. This is basic stuff: the language equivalent of knowing how to add 5 to 7. For example, no native speaker of English should struggle with apostrophes and the letter S because the rules to cover the overwhelming majority of cases can be learnt by anyone in a minute:
Possessives: Add 's for singulars and for plurals not already ending in -s. Plurals ending in -s add ' after the s.
cat => cat's, woman => woman's, cats => cats', women => women's
Possessive exceptions: Hers, its, theirs and so on: you wouldn't write hi's so don't use an apostrophe in the others.
Contractions: something + is => -'s. This includes it is => it's.
Plurals: Don't use an apostrophe.
Extremely rare exception: Phrases like "dotting the i's and crossing the t's", where the apostrophe serves as a break to avoid creating the word "is".That shouldn't be a challenge for anywhere near as many people who appear to find it a challenge. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 9:15:54 GMT
Thanks for the grammar lesson I'm sure we all feel enlightened now. That's exactly the kind of attitude that I'm talking about- I'm sure most of us are generally (probably unconsciously by now) aware of the rules, but in a forum/social media environment people do slip into more colloquial speech, as they do in life. It just reeks of a superior attitude to be nit picking in this way.
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