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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 22:14:07 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. To the earlier poster's point, it gets them to vote Leave. They're not annoyed now, theyre happy. Are you? Forget that liberal crap, there's no mileage in being nice to bigots. Leave is totally mischaracterised there anyway, my original divide made clear that there are also those who want to send a message and hang the consequences. They are misguided and the ones who you can talk to, even though they are planning to do something contemptuous - the ones who could have made the Brexit difference and will likely make the Clinton/Trump difference. The high point of BNP support suggests there are a little over 10% of the population who are unreachable, the other 90% are. |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 23, 2016 22:19:41 GMT
You're right. Gay marriage and the state of the Black community in America is all Trump talks about. How are either of these a 'main talking point' of his? Not Trump himself, but his campaign. There is a very marked difference between what he himself says and what the actual political team behind him puts out as talking points. His team are also playing for the undecideds, even as he himself preaches to the converted. |
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Post by vdcni on Sept 23, 2016 22:24:25 GMT
Actually though he hasn't been a politician Trump has long been a public figure so we do have lots of evidence of his past beliefs as in 2002 when he supported the Iraq War though to be fair reluctantly though Clinton was also very ambivalent in her speech in the senate when it was debated. By 2004 it was clear what a disaster it was and most people save the hard core Republicans had realised their mistake.
We also have Trumps long support of birtherism one of the most absurd and divisive campaigns in modern politics with absolutely no basis in fact.
We also have the many worrying things he's said through the campaign, his support of nuclear weapons, his wish to ban an entire group of people from the US, his enthusiasm for curtailing the freedom of the press, his encouragement of the use of intimidation and violence if the vote didn't go his way & his admiration of Putin among others which gives us an insight into what kind of President he'll be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 22:24:37 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. I find that putting forward your opinion with points and statements, instead of name calling and generalizing about your opposition, will make you look less bitter and more self-assured. It's nice to know you sympathize with politicians though. So cute. XXX If you had read my post I said they are only a proportion of his support. So here's a fact, via politifact, in case you still think he is okay to vote for. 70% of Trump comments range from mostly false to pants on fire. Clinton scores 28%. Pretty close, huh. www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/What's with the bitter and not self assured rubbish anyway? I'm angry, not bitter and completely sure that my view is backed up by the truth. I could go on about the ties to the world's fave homophobe Putin, his corrupt dealings including paying inordinate amounts to himself from his campaign, his rampant sexism, his idiotic economic ideas that involve spending binges allied with lower taxes for the wealthy and so on. |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 22:26:07 GMT
As a Brit with no say on this at all, I'm firmly #TeamHillary. My personal belief is that Trump never thought he stood a chance, but wanted a go at it anyway. He started with his honest, uncensored views and ever since people started listening he has just run with it to see how far he could go. Its ridiculous that Hillary has to compete with him and take him as a serious threat to getting the top job. He's never even held office and has no prior experience. He might be a seasoned businessman, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to politics. I've always said that I wanted Trump to win the nomination so that it was Clinton vs Trump, because she'd win - America may have a reputation for being somewhat stupid, but it's not that stupid. I mean goodness. Alan Sugar might be good as business but do we want him as Prime Minister? Of course not. I don't think Trump thought he'd get this far either. (he probably thought Hillary would kill him off... joking...) |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 22:31:31 GMT
Actually though he hasn't been a politician Trump has long been a public figure so we do have lots of evidence of his past beliefs as in 2002 when he supported the Iraq War though to be fair reluctantly though Clinton was also very ambivalent in her speech in the senate when it was debated. By 2004 it was clear what a disaster it was and most people save the hard core Republicans had realised their mistake. We also have Trumps long support of birtherism one of the most absurd and divisive campaigns in modern politics with absolutely no basis in fact. We also have the many worrying things he's said through the campaign, his support of nuclear weapons, his wish to ban an entire group of people from the US, his enthusiasm for curtailing the freedom of the press, his encouragement of the use of intimidation and violence if the vote didn't go his way & his admiration of Putin among others which gives us an insight into what kind of President he'll be. What??!!! Hillary started the birtherism movement to try and beat Obama! You bring up some valid criticisms of Trump though. I'm praying that if he gets in the design of US constitution will restrict him as it has with other presidents. |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 22:42:32 GMT
So here's a fact, via politifact, in case you still think he is okay to vote for. 70% of Trump comments range from mostly false to pants on fire. Clinton scores 28%. Pretty close, huh. www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/What's with the bitter and not self assured rubbish anyway? I'm angry, not bitter and completely sure that my view is backed up by the truth. I could go on about the ties to the world's fave homophobe Putin, his corrupt dealings including paying inordinate amounts to himself from his campaign, his rampant sexism, his idiotic economic ideas that involve spending binges allied with lower taxes for the wealthy and so on. I don't think he is okay to vote for. I'm not even a supporter. Heck, I'm not even American. If I HAD to, I would go with Trump. I don't wish to argue at all. Apologies for calling you bitter. But instead of referencing an objective source in your post you decided to link an official Hillary campaign video. The footage of Hillary lying is endless, so I'm sticking with that. I will check out politifact though. Thanks for your points, I'm still trying to keep an open mind x |
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Post by vdcni on Sept 24, 2016 4:03:32 GMT
Hillary did not start birtherism, there's some suggestion that some extreme supporters may have been involved at points but generally after she had already conceded the race in 2008 and not a single piece of evidence has ever directly linked her with it and she has never said anything in support of it despite many Republican efforts to prove otherwise. www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/20/hillary-clinton-and-birther-movement-still-no-ther/That video produces nothing to prove it and it tries to muddy the water with the Muslim stuff which isn't even the same argument. By contrast Trump pursued this theme for years and it's arguably the thing that launched him into political prominence. Possibly you don't know that the Western Journalism Center is notoriously biased and untrustworthy in the same league as Breitbart but I'd suggest you try and widen your reading. |
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Post by Jan on Sept 24, 2016 8:44:22 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. You think calling people thick is OK ? From my observations a lot of Trump supporters at the rallies seem to be fat too, so why not call them fat, thick and racist. Maybe calling them uneducated would be better ? It's the first TV presidential debate on Monday. Almost ANYTHING could happen. Good fun. |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 24, 2016 9:03:54 GMT
Hillary did not start birtherism, there's some suggestion that some extreme supporters may have been involved at points but generally after she had already conceded the race in 2008 and not a single piece of evidence has ever directly linked her with it and she has never said anything in support of it despite many Republican efforts to prove otherwise. www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/20/hillary-clinton-and-birther-movement-still-no-ther/That video produces nothing to prove it and it tries to muddy the water with the Muslim stuff which isn't even the same argument. By contrast Trump pursued this theme for years and it's arguably the thing that launched him into political prominence. Possibly you don't know that the Western Journalism Center is notoriously biased and untrustworthy in the same league as Breitbart but I'd suggest you try and widen your reading. Your points are all correct. Thank you for expressing them in an adult way. x |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2016 10:10:11 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. You think calling people thick is OK ? From my observations a lot of Trump supporters at the rallies seem to be fat too, so why not call them fat, thick and racist. Maybe calling them uneducated would be better ? It's the first TV presidential debate on Monday. Almost ANYTHING could happen. Good fun. I was quoting another poster who was linked to and reflecting their choice of words, they weren't originally mine. Whatever term you want to use, people such as those the Daily Show found deserve to be called something. |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Sept 24, 2016 13:38:53 GMT
Funny but depressing.
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 24, 2016 14:32:42 GMT
Both of the nominations have ardent fans who are good for a chuckle. Does anyone remember seeing this video when it went viral?
"She's from Europe..."
We never had it quite this dramatic for Brexit, apart from Izzard vs Farage on QT.
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Post by ldm2016 on Sept 26, 2016 8:24:22 GMT
If anyone thinks that voting for this guy is okay, you are beneath contempt. Whether it's because you want to 'send a message', just for laughs or if you are a closet bigot, you are all beneath contempt. There is no equivalence with Clinton who, whilst she may have been beaten by a different candidate, is well behind him in the fields of corruption, lying and so on. No equivalence whatsoever. And why do they harbour such views?
If you call them bigoted you're not solving the problem, just galvanising their opinion.
Such blindness - that everyone who disagrees with the Liberal elite is wrong - is why UKIP had their success and why the UK us leaving the EU.
As I said above, people have concerns for a reason....
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Post by ldm2016 on Sept 26, 2016 8:26:24 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. It doesn't get them annoyed. It galvanises them.
And mislabelling people racist for expressing concerns about mass immigration is ridiculous and makes the accuser look like a bit of a dick.
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 26, 2016 10:10:39 GMT
Trump supporters are fat, thick and racist.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 10:15:51 GMT
*Some* Trump supporters are fat, thick, and racist. I'd move to drop "fat" though, as being thick and/or racist will have a direct effect on your political views, but your body shape or size will only have an indirect effect at best or, more likely, will have no real effect at all. Also, putting the descriptor "fat" next to pejoratives like "thick" and "racist" has the side effect of making fat look like an extremely negative thing to be, and if you're happy to be a fat-shamer, then that puts you firmly on the thick and racist side of the "naughty-to-nice" spectrum.
For clarity: if you use "fat" as an insult, you're an asshole.
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Post by ldm2016 on Sept 26, 2016 11:29:46 GMT
Trump supporters are fat, thick and racist. And so are UKIP voters.... oh, and brexit voters......
They're fat, thick and racist too aren't they but UKIP is the third party now and we're leaving the EU too... but that's what they were always told pre-election/referendum... They got what they wanted, the Generation Snowflake marchers for Europe didn't
Wondering when the penny will drop with people like you that insults have no place in politics and will NOT have the desired effect... If you don't want Trump (if you're eligible to vote) or a Conservative landslide victory in 2020 I suspect you're going to have to change your approach...
People have opinions which differ from you for a number of reasons... LISTEN, READ, THINK, COMMUNICATE.
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Post by perfectspy on Sept 26, 2016 15:26:52 GMT
If Trump wins and starts waging war all over the world. I hope Theresa May puts two fingers up to the "special relationship" and leaves him to it. Hilary supported the war in Iraq........Trump didn't. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 15:45:47 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. It doesn't get them annoyed. It galvanises them.
And mislabelling people racist for expressing concerns about mass immigration is ridiculous and makes the accuser look like a bit of a dick.
You really should read the whole thread for context - first, not my words, second I said some not all (putting a number on it, around 10%). We've been here before, at different times and places. Trying to be nice to this group and understanding their concerns is the last thing you should do. Trump is effectively Oswald Mosley and the British knew how to deal with him, I have faith in America that they will do the same. We had a number of blackshirts but, being a primarily conservative nation, they were scorned. The problem with the liberal elite is that they are too nice, thinking everyone just needs a good discussion about the issues. Meanwhile they are missing what is happening beneath their noses. |
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Post by Michael on Sept 26, 2016 16:09:52 GMT
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Post by Jan on Sept 26, 2016 17:56:30 GMT
Hillary did not start birtherism, there's some suggestion that some extreme supporters may have been involved at points but generally after she had already conceded the race in 2008 Well her campaign manager in 2008 has admitted that a campaign staffer circulated birther material. Trump has said some wildly offensive things (he's a bit like Berlusconi) and Hillary has made several bad decisions which have resulted in people getting killed. Tough choice. |
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Post by foxa on Sept 26, 2016 18:33:42 GMT
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Post by foxa on Sept 26, 2016 18:43:09 GMT
Jan - you aren't American, are you? If you were, I might go to the bother of digging out all the links to clear up a number of misunderstandings/distortions, etc. that you are buying into (and repeat with great confidence.) But as I believe this is just a popcorn eating spectator sport for you, I'll just let you get on with it.
I said I'd leave this topic and now I really will.
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 26, 2016 22:11:52 GMT
Who is watching the debate tonight?
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