19,790 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 9, 2016 18:58:56 GMT
I'm not buying that Hillary is so hated that people HAD to vote for Trump instead. 1. Hillary received more votes. 2. Trump's unfavorability ratings are lower than hers. So that theory doesn't make much sense. Thanks. I'll pass that on to my friends  . |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Nov 9, 2016 20:29:18 GMT
My entire family voted for Trump They live in LA or NYC They are all non white well to do professionals This nasty derogatory attitude is EXACTLY why we ended up with Brexit A good lesson to the idiot media of the world stuck up its own arse wanting to report only what it can see and then spending weeks analysing how sh*t they are and how unpredictable the world is And people making assumptions Both the Brexit and the US presidential election campaigns suffered from the arrogant side taking the moral high ground and calling the other side stupid constantly mocking and taunting This never works Twice the lesson has been shown now You don't need the assumed skills to make it these days Kim Kardshian gets more column inches than famine and war Times have changed I've been saying this for months. It's so bizarre seeing the people who are trying to promote diversity and love come out with the whole "stupid white male" rhetoric. Bitterness can be found on both sides. Hopefully a lesson of humility will be learnt, and America will never have to choose between such a pair again... |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Nov 9, 2016 21:28:04 GMT
I'm so glad I started this thread. Although the consensus here is heatedly pro-Clinton, it's been nice hearing everyone's views.
I should have placed money on Trump. I don't know why I was so confident that Trump had this in the bag, but the parallels to Brexit where so patent. I guess the worldwide trend is that this is the hour of the underdog, the hour of charisma and personality over homogeneous PC fools who seem cold and removed - as seen over here with Corbyn and Farage; coupled with loathing for the establishment/ruling elite/globalists, a fringe of politics who have incessantly gone about their business with arrogance, taking the silent majority for fools.
Hillary dug her own grave. Donald campaigned aggressively, holding twice as many rallies and press conferences as a counterpart who thought repeating "wouldn't it be nice to have a female president?!!" would take her to the White House. To me Hillary, although better qualified, just failed to connect with ordinary Americans, unless talking about childcare and women's rights. Though, in fairness, I think the Democrats were prey to a media frenzy. Donald was so controversial. Controversy sells. There are only so many times you can call racism and sexism before people start to question such narratives. The media caused this mess. Over here in the UK, I have friends emotionally shaken by the result; if the media hadn't treated this like pantomime and instilled the fear of God into all of us (a la Brexit - "you will have no future" "ww3" "we will all die... blah...blah...") then it would have never of come to this. Heck, it may not have even come to Clinton and Trump. I think it's reverse psychology. My mother's reasoning for voting leave was something along the lines of "they can't scare me... argggh"; I guess America feels the same. I don't know how such anger came about. Either way, people just want to blow the status quo apart and start afresh. Which, although terrifying, presents as many opportunities as it does challenges.
The main stream media and polling industry must be crapping themselves. If Brexit was an embarrassment for them, then this has result is the touchstone. Everything will change, especially as we become more cyber - the impact of things like Wikileaks cannot be understated. I'm sure we'll see the world become more right-wing; however everything is cyclical (people, after 8 years, are bored of the democrats), and the left, mainly in the media, have been holding onto the moral high ground so tightly it's made their fingers bleed. Having said all of this, I truly believe - don't laugh - that the world is becoming more caring and understanding, though we appear to be in a very deep trough at the moment. We all have the best intentions and want the best for the world we live in. I don't think anyone on here harbors hatred and we all want to live in a world where everyone feels safe and loved (this is getting cheesy, sorry). People around the world are so passionate about what they deem "right" and "moral" that they feel the need to attack anyone who disagrees with them. Who knows how this will play out.
I'm fed up with everything in politics being about either my race, my sexuality, my gender or my class. I'm sickened when people tell me I should think a certain way just because I am a certain way. Can't we get back to talking about the real issues instead of talking about things so puerile, and finding things to be pseudo offended by all the time? I guess Trump appears because millions of others feel like I do - although our policies, views and politics are miles away, our sentiment is the same: political correctness is boring, the establishment fails to represent me and I don't like being patronized.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 22:24:53 GMT
I find it incredible that people all over social media are blaming HC for being corrupt/the establishment/left/a woman for why DT got in and excusing the racist/stupid/facist people that voted!
Yes maybe HC is all those things but DT sexually assaults women, hates muslims etcetc
This is the drip drip of fascism. Blame the media, blame the left, blame anyone that doesn't agree
This is the far right being brought into the middle and being accepted as correct. THIS IS f***ING FASCISM!!. If we accept what they are saying as fact then the arts die because the arts ARE left leaning by default.
Everyday we need to say that this is wrong and f*** people that say it's the left and medias fault. IT ISNT.
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Nov 9, 2016 22:35:24 GMT
I find it incredible that people all over social media are blaming HC for being corrupt/the establishment/left/a woman for why DT got in and excusing the racist/stupid/facist people that voted! Yes maybe HC is all those things but DT sexually assaults women, hates muslims etcetc This is the drip drip of fascism. Blame the media, blame the left, blame anyone that doesn't agree This is the far right being brought into the middle and being accepted as correct. THIS IS f***ING FASCISM!!. If we accept what they are saying as fact then the arts die because the arts ARE left leaning by default. Everyday we need to say that this is wrong and f*** people that say it's the left and medias fault. IT ISNT. One of Donald's first investments was into a Bway play. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/theater/for-a-young-donald-j-trump-broadway-held-sway.html) The public fund their constitution (partly) in taxes. Here in the UK, the government works FOR US; we pay for the BBC. If these institutions lie to the public and brands half of them racist for expressing conservative view points then yeah, people are gonna turn their back on them. Public institutions shouldn't have a bias and MPs should carry out the will of the people. God bless democracy. More gay men voted conservative than labour in the last election. The arts should reflect politics but shouldnt be shaped and defined by politics. I know loads of conservatives who love theatre. Let's not resort to stereotyping people please. "The Fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists" |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 22:38:18 GMT
I mean I never once mentioned conservatives. Trump ain't a conservative.
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Nov 9, 2016 22:44:19 GMT
I mean I never once mentioned conservatives. Trump ain't a conservative. The premise of your argument was right wing vs left. But hey, carry on being petty and calling people stupid, that tactic has worked really well so far... xxxx (just kidding) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 22:46:22 GMT
Also we are told that it is a revolution of the working class not putting up with the establishment anymore. What poppycock. I'm working class. My job is working with the 'under class'. It's all rubbish and just a revolution of getting rid of the left.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 22:49:43 GMT
I mean I never once mentioned conservatives. Trump ain't a conservative. The premise of your argument was right wing vs left. But hey, carry on being petty and calling people stupid, that tactic has worked really well so far... xxxx (just kidding) Yes but conservative isn't rightwing, its centre right. No issue with that. |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Nov 9, 2016 22:50:23 GMT
Also we are told that it is a revolution of the working class not putting up with the establishment anymore. What poppycock. I'm working class. My job is working with the 'under class'. It's all rubbish and just a revolution of getting rid of the left. True. It was the middle class who came out in their numbers; more working class were for Clinton than Trump, shattering the "uneducated, white, working class supporter" myth. The left seems to be doing a good job of getting rid of themselves, in all fairness... x |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 22:56:33 GMT
The left have a lot to think about for sure. But it angers me that they are being blamed for people voting for 11 million people being expelled from a country. That's right wing thought.
Just seems that a lot of people (and I'm not specifically meaning people in here) are blaming the left for what's happening when it isn't. It's the right wing that are winning
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 22:57:25 GMT
And I'm never talking about conservatives. That's something different from the right wing
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Nov 9, 2016 23:03:22 GMT
And I'm never talking about conservatives. That's something different from the right wing Sorry |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 23:11:35 GMT
And I'm never talking about conservatives. That's something different from the right wing Sorry Don't ever apologise. It's difficult trying to get your opinion across on forums especially on such an emotive day but we is all friends on here or at least lovers entwined in theatre |
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133 posts
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Nov 9, 2016 23:14:00 GMT
Don't ever apologise. It's difficult trying to get your opinion across on forums especially on such an emotive day but we is all friends on here or at least lovers entwined in theatre I know! Thank God for this forum. All other social media seems like a battle ground today. x |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 23:14:03 GMT
Thanks. I'll pass that on to my friends . Your friends are just a few individuals. Snutte's statistics are of the entire voting electorate. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Nov 9, 2016 23:32:26 GMT
Not entirely sure how a billionaire TV star who's gotten away with sexual assault and other crimes multiple times is an underdog. Trump is the very definition of the elite. There are only so many times you can call racism and sexism before people start to question such narratives. Trump gets called racist and sexist all the time because he says and does racist and sexist things all the time. That's objective fact. It's like complaining that Hillary constantly being described as a woman is a narrative. |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Nov 9, 2016 23:33:37 GMT
I'm so glad I started this thread. Although the consensus here is heatedly pro-Clinton, it's been nice hearing everyone's views Donald campaigned aggressively I regard this thread as not being Pro Clinton but Anti Trump. It's done, the fat lady has sang, tomorrow's chip wrappings. But lessons simply must be learned. This has been a nasty, personal attack campaign. No one is leaving this squeaky clean. The next President of The United States of America openly ridiculed a disabled man trying to do his job. Disparaged the parents of a dead serviceman and when pulled up about it didn't apologise but did it again! And this isn't historical stuff like the puss-y grabbing stuff, this is the last few months while campaigning. Aggressive campaigning indeed but not classy. Admire him, stand when he enters a room, hold his picture up to your kids and say if you work hard this could be you. But everyone should know they should and could have done very much better. I don't give a hoot about Hillary Clinton and the whole First Female President; it should always be the best person for the job regardless. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Nov 9, 2016 23:36:31 GMT
Not a Clinton fan by any stretch of the imagination, and she should never have been nominated.
Just anti racist, anti bigotry, and anti abuse, which apparently makes me a leftie liberal elite.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 6:18:08 GMT
Obama's approval ratings are some of the best of any outgoing president recent years. What were they approving of? His golf handicap? Hes been invisible for that past year. Very funny. I can't stop laughing... The fact just is that his approval ratings are good. I don't care what they're approving of. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 7:38:16 GMT
I truly believe - don't laugh - that the world is becoming more caring and understanding, though we appear to be in a very deep trough at the moment. We all have the best intentions and want the best for the world we live in. I don't see that. I see people wanting the best for the world they live in, but the world everyone else lives in can go to hell. Recently I employed a tradesman to do some work on my house. He's not British; I don't know where he's from and in the current atmosphere it might be rude to ask. In the minds of the Trumps and the Farages of this world I should have employed someone local (he is actually local — he lives a few minutes from me — but that's not what they mean), not some foreigner. That's wrong. I shouldn't have considered not employing him because he's not British, any more than I would if he'd been black or a woman. You either treat people as equal or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose which equality you're prepared to tolerate. What I see in the world these days is an increasing selfishness: a willingness to treat others appallingly so long as I'm OK. You can't say that anyone has the best of intentions when both here and in the United States people are advocating throwing other people out of their homes and out of their jobs because of some ridiculous perception that creating an underclass is the way to make a nation great. It feels to me like we're living in the 1930s, and I think things are going to have to get a whole lot worse before people finally look in the mirror and see what they've become. |
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Post by Jan on Nov 10, 2016 7:51:13 GMT
Interestingly enough, right now a news item reported that individually, Clinton got 59,166,405 votes and Trump only 59,029,912 - they're still counting but it shows the deeply flawed system of the electoral college. But if the election had been run on popular vote lines the result might not have been any different. I know Republicans in California who don't bother to vote at all because they are in a significant minority and there is no way the 55 electoral college votes will ever go anywhere other than to the Democrat presidential nominee. As soon as you switch to a popular vote the turnout in many states will change. This sort of federal voting system occurs in many situations. For example how come in EU qualified majority voting each country gets one vote ? Shouldn't Germany's vote count for a lot more than Ireland's due to their bigger population ? |
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Post by viserys on Nov 10, 2016 8:09:20 GMT
Good point, although it illustrates another flaw, namely that people have the feeling that their voice doesn't matter anyway and this isn't what democracy should be. And I suppose it's the same for democratic-minded residents in firmly Republican states. As for the EU, I think the seats in the EU parliament reflect the population, i.e. Germany has 99 seats, France has 74 seats and Ireland has 12 seats: www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20130610IPR11414/elections-2014-share-out-of-meps'-seats-among-28-eu-countries Whether the MEPs reflect their country's opinion is another thing altogether. Although personally I actually appreciate the EU since once in a while we actually need an EU-ruling to crack open the ancient crusty reactionary laws here in Germany. It took the EU to open military service to women here for example or to allow the "morning after pill" being available in pharmacies and not just on prescription from a doctor. |
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 8:10:15 GMT
My entire family voted for Trump They live in LA or NYC They are all non white well to do professionals This nasty derogatory attitude is EXACTLY why we ended up with Brexit A good lesson to the idiot media of the world stuck up its own arse wanting to report only what it can see and then spending weeks analysing how sh*t they are and how unpredictable the world is And people making assumptions Both the Brexit and the US presidential election campaigns suffered from the arrogant side taking the moral high ground and calling the other side stupid constantly mocking and taunting This never works Twice the lesson has been shown now You don't need the assumed skills to make it these days Kim Kardshian gets more column inches than famine and war Times have changed Wasnt Trumps whole campaign pretty much mocking and taunting people? People are so desperate to blame the left and the media for how people voted. No, lots of people do not care about anything outside their backyard. Now the press and left will be vilified and it will be oh so easier to slip into fascism.. I wish people would stop using Nazi Germany as their only reference point to "right" wing politics, it is embarrassingly juvenile and displays both arrogance and ignorance. If people are concerned about mass immigration and the negative impact it has on a country they are NOT being racist but have concerns. The most vocal supporters of mass immigration tend to be those who will not be affected by it which is why they need to stop labelling people as racist or stupid but see how they are affected. Likewise, if people are concerned that traditional white communities are being decimated they are NOT being racist (or inverted snobs) but concerned about losing identify and mourning the passing of their background. Why will the looney, "liberal" left never ever learn? If you label people as thick, racist and all manner of derogatory terms you are increasingly galvanising the opinions you find abhorrent because they do not sit well with your self righteous self. Find out why people have opinions, understand what they experience. Why will they happily help someone of different nationality, colour, or religion but not only turn a blind eye to those already living in a country but also condemn then by derogatory accusations and insults? We're in a new era and the loonies brought us here... How ironic that they are still oblivious. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Nov 10, 2016 9:19:52 GMT
But there is a rise in racism and hate crime, and a lot of explicitly racist rhetoric around this campaign. That's just objective fact. That the right seem to think that "racism" is just some kind of meaningless trendy buzzword or perspective is bizarre and disturbing. Claiming people who are against racism as "self righteous" and self appointed moral arbiters, ditto.
When I was growing up, it was universally understood that racism was a bad thing. Now we live in an era where double talk and arbitrary concepts of "freedom" rule to the point where people calmly put forward racist practices as legitimate belief systems. The attitude seems to be, "I'm allowed to hate black people/Mexicans/immigrants if I want to it's a perfectly valid opinion how dare you call me racist!" But that is the literal definition of racist.
As someone who's studied that period of history and the politics of that era intensely, and lost much family in the Holocaust and the Pogroms, there are direct and alarming parallels in terms of specific details between the current situation and the situation in Germany before the war. Especially when it comes to the way the authorities and the 1% manipulating low income whites into believing their enemy is black Americans. This manipulating and pitting people against each other has gone on for centuries.
It's similar to the way the British authorities and media try to demonise disabled people - "benefits cheats are stealing YOUR money!" rhetoric. While ignoring that big businesses and people with the highest income steal a thousand times more money in tax evasion. Manipulating the angry disenfranchised into believing their problems are caused by an oppressed minority rather than by the wealthy, power and privileged is the oldest trick in the book. That billionaire super-elite Trump has conned people into thinking he somehow represents or speaks for the common man at least indicates he's got some smarts.
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