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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 24, 2016 1:42:24 GMT
As many of you may have gathered I am a big soppy leftie, so Clinton would be my cup of tea normally (except I cannot stand her), but I probably would have voted that way anyway. I love Obama and Bill Clinton.
However I got some friends and colleagues who are very right wing and you begin to worry when they say that Trump is dangerous.
You know that law our parliamentarians voted in this week to replace Trident? If Trump gets in and with Putin on the other side, we probably won't need those submarines.
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Post by d'James on Jul 24, 2016 2:37:49 GMT
Nothing will surprise me anymore.
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Post by Michael on Jul 24, 2016 5:38:25 GMT
As many of you may have gathered I am a big soppy leftie, so Clinton would be my cup of tea normally (except I cannot stand her), but I probably would have voted that way anyway. Funny thing is: compared to our European standards, the Democrats would be a centre-right party. If he were British, Bernie would be a member of the Tories. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 8:28:38 GMT
My brother lives in the USA, not far from New York. Over the 15 years he has lived there comments have been made about the level of intelligence of people from certain areas, which I took to be an exaggeration.
Having seem the Trump followers on TV this week I have changed my mind.
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Jul 24, 2016 10:27:26 GMT
As many of you may have gathered I am a big soppy leftie, so Clinton would be my cup of tea normally (except I cannot stand her), but I probably would have voted that way anyway. If he were British, Bernie would be a member of the Tories. Really? I'd heard Bernie was extreme left-wing. I imagine Hillary would be Conservative or Lib Dem, but I reckon Bernie would be Labour. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 10:30:45 GMT
If you're a leftie, then of course you wouldn't like her because she isn't left at all. I'd say she's more centre-right. As Michael said, Bernie wouldn't even be considered to be extremely left in Europe. And yes, Trump is a buffoon, but Clinton is corrupt and is only in it for herself. Trump is stupid and says very offensive things, but I find it hard to believe that he would actually cause a nuclear war. He's a racist, bigot and a huge dick, but he's not that stupid.
If you have to believe the media, you have to choose between those two, but that's not the case. There are third parties as well. And I believe that for the first time ever these parties might actually get a decent percentage of the vote. Once Bernie supporters find out that Jill Stein of the Green Party is actually a female Bernie who is also better at debating than Bernie (because let's face it, in the debates Bernie didn't always use his time to the fullest. People like myself, who had been following his campaign understood what he meant were like "hell yes, that's right Bernie". But people who were not really following politics that much didn't get what he meant sometimes.) Jill Stein just says "this is what we're gonna do and this is HOW we're gonna do it". She's also not afraid to say it if one of the other candidates is lying, which they do like all the time. Bernie was way too polite and said stuff like "that's disingenuous". If Jill Stein gets to 15% in the polls they have to allow her to take part in the presidential debates, and she will absolutely DESTROY Clinton and Trump, because she's all about the policies. The other two are all about image. Well actually, Clinton is. Trump just likes to say offensive stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 10:32:23 GMT
If he were British, Bernie would be a member of the Tories. Really? I'd heard Bernie was extreme left-wing. I imagine Hillary would be Conservative or Lib Dem, but I reckon Bernie would be Labour. Bernie might be Labour. We just have to be clear that he's not as left-wing as people think. He's got great ideas, but let's face it, those ideas are all things that have existed for years in Western Europe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 10:32:34 GMT
Sanders would be more like Neil Kinnock, Clinton like the labour right/libdem left. Republicans tend to be more right wing than conservatives, more akin to UKIP. Trump is, on the other hand, closer to Mussolini or Le Pen, with a touch of Juan Peron thrown in.
EDIT: neither Stein nor Johnson will break through. The system is such that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump and Johnson one for Clinton (though that's less clear cut than for Stein).
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Jul 24, 2016 10:59:06 GMT
Interesting to hear that the Democrats are mostly right-wing, was really curious about that as I did a political test and got Conservative for UK and Democratic for US. What baffles me about my test is that most people either get a high score for Conservative and low score for Labour and vice versa. I got 83% Conservative, 83% Lib Dem and 80% Labour. Interesting that they are so close together, my views are pretty centre. I don't mind right or left wing politicians, I just don't like extreme right or left (such as Trump).
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 24, 2016 11:25:33 GMT
Anyone can be president of the U.S. - just as long as you have $200m behind you.
I agree that the democrats are like a watered down conservatives.
As I said in my introduction thread that my friends who are right wing are CONCERNED AND WORRIED about Trump, these people regular give me stick about being a member of the Labour Party and RMT, you don't want to speak to them about migration issues and they are worried about Trump. As I said it is more worrying because you have an equally dangerous person in power in Russia and wants mother Russia to be great again.
You heard Trump giving platitudes at the end of the conference this week, they were going mad for him - 'he is going to fix a broken America' and 'going to make the USA great again'. There was a cracking programme on Panorama on Monday, about a small American city. - Bakersfield and that was unsettling.
Donald Trump has modelled himself exactly on Nigel Farage, so he isn't stupid. That kind of hyperbole politics the politics of fear and the politics of envy, the one that plays to people insecurities was successful here last month and undoubtly will be successful in the States.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 11:49:41 GMT
Anyone can be president of the U.S. - just as long as you have $200m behind you. As I said in my introduction thread that my friends who are right wing are CONCERNED AND WORRIED about Trump, these people regular give me stick about being a member of the Labour Party and RMT, you don't want to speak to them about migration issues and they are worried about Trump. As I said it is more worrying because you have an equally dangerous person in power in Russia and wants mother Russia to be great again. Bernie ran a great campaign without having huge donors. And the only reason Republicans are worried about Trump is because their corporate sponsors can't control him like a puppet because he has enough money himself. He's saying what most of them have been thinking for ages. Most of them actually do believe Muslims and Mexicans should be kept out of the US. They just don't want to say it out loud because that would hurt them politically. They're not afraid of Trumps policies, they're just afraid they can't be his puppet masters. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 11:53:10 GMT
EDIT: neither Stein nor Johnson will break through. The system is such that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump and Johnson one for Clinton (though that's less clear cut than for Stein). See, that's the problem. People keep saying that. And although that is a fair point, I think it's about time that people can vote FOR something instead of voting AGAINST something. If Clinton wins, it will be because lots of people voted agains Trump, not because they voted for her. And I do think people should vote for Stein (or Johnson if necessary). That's what democracy is about, having the option to vote for something you want. As a wise man once said: "I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it, than vote for something I don't want, and get it." |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 13:32:59 GMT
Labour isn't left wing, it's right of the centre. Maybe this will change if JC remains.
Remember when trump said about the ban on Muslims and we all laughed and said no way would he get the republican nomination? That was 6 months ago. 4 months to go til the election.
I think he will get in. People seem pissed off and despondent at Clinton and so less likely to vote, Trump envokes passion, albeit awful passion, and people will vote. And some fools will vote Trump as a protest
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Post by Jan on Jul 24, 2016 13:52:01 GMT
Sanders would be more like Neil Kinnock, Clinton like the labour right/libdem left. Republicans tend to be more right wing than conservatives, more akin to UKIP. Trump is, on the other hand, closer to Mussolini or Le Pen, with a touch of Juan Peron thrown in. EDIT: neither Stein nor Johnson will break through. The system is such that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump and Johnson one for Clinton (though that's less clear cut than for Stein). Sanders differs from Kinnock is that he is totally opposed to free trade agreements like TTIP. So closer to Corbyn. He seems to have dragged Mrs Clinton leftwards to oppose it too. Trump also opposes it. It makes Obama's Project Fear warning that we'll be at the back of the queue for trade agreements pretty redundant, the EU won't get one either. On Bill Clinton praised up the thread, none of you lefties who disapprove of Boris' extramarital affairs should forget about Bill Clinton's appalling treatment of women, abuse of his position of trust to procure women and payments to silence them. He has also been accused of rape and has been associated with a convicted paedophile. Or does he get a free pass because he's a Democrat ? Seems so as Hillary still trots him out to support her - a terrible example from a supposed feminist. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 13:53:37 GMT
Anyone can be president of the U.S. - just as long as you have $200m behind you. As I said in my introduction thread that my friends who are right wing are CONCERNED AND WORRIED about Trump, these people regular give me stick about being a member of the Labour Party and RMT, you don't want to speak to them about migration issues and they are worried about Trump. As I said it is more worrying because you have an equally dangerous person in power in Russia and wants mother Russia to be great again. Bernie ran a great campaign without having huge donors. And the only reason Republicans are worried about Trump is because their corporate sponsors can't control him like a puppet because he has enough money himself. He's saying what most of them have been thinking for ages. Most of them actually do believe Muslims and Mexicans should be kept out of the US. They just don't want to say it out loud because that would hurt them politically. They're not afraid of Trumps policies, they're just afraid they can't be his puppet masters. Trump does not have that sort of money, he's hiding his tax returns because he's claimed a wealth that he doesn't have. He's put at least four companies into bankruptcy and relies on lines of credit from dodgy areas. There is only one major bank now that will extend him credit (Deutsche Bank, who have their own credibility problems), the rest won't go near him. None of this is really appreciated by voters yet. |
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Post by Jan on Jul 24, 2016 14:01:24 GMT
My brother lives in the USA, not far from New York. Over the 15 years he has lived there comments have been made about the level of intelligence of people from certain areas, which I took to be an exaggeration. Having seem the Trump followers on TV this week I have changed my mind. The reason people vote for Trump is they are stupid. The reason people voted for Brexit is they are stupid. Do you not think there might be more to it than that ? I mean there are surely some people cleverer than your brother who voted for Trump. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 14:23:24 GMT
The reason people vote for Trump is they are stupid. The reason people voted for Brexit is they are stupid. Do you not think there might be more to it than that ? I mean there are surely some people cleverer than your brother who voted for Trump. You are using your interpretation of what I have said. I have never said that people who voted for Brexit were "stupid". I do think that a lot of the people who voted from Brexit believed the information supplied by Boris and co without question as it supported their belief that immigration is out of control and that Brexit would magically solve this. The comment about USA was tongue in cheek and referred specifically to those interviewed on TV who came out with the most banal reasons for supporting Trump. However, not going to argue any more, take it how you will. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 14:32:03 GMT
Bernie ran a great campaign without having huge donors. And the only reason Republicans are worried about Trump is because their corporate sponsors can't control him like a puppet because he has enough money himself. He's saying what most of them have been thinking for ages. Most of them actually do believe Muslims and Mexicans should be kept out of the US. They just don't want to say it out loud because that would hurt them politically. They're not afraid of Trumps policies, they're just afraid they can't be his puppet masters. Trump does not have that sort of money, he's hiding his tax returns because he's claimed a wealth that he doesn't have. He's put at least four companies into bankruptcy and relies on lines of credit from dodgy areas. There is only one major bank now that will extend him credit (Deutsche Bank, who have their own credibility problems), the rest won't go near him. None of this is really appreciated by voters yet. Even so, he doesn't seem to have to get his money from special interest groups. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 14:39:40 GMT
Trump does not have that sort of money, he's hiding his tax returns because he's claimed a wealth that he doesn't have. He's put at least four companies into bankruptcy and relies on lines of credit from dodgy areas. There is only one major bank now that will extend him credit (Deutsche Bank, who have their own credibility problems), the rest won't go near him. None of this is really appreciated by voters yet. Even so, he doesn't seem to have to get his money from special interest groups. No bigger special interest group than Russia. Imagine that, a president in hock to his dodgy creditors and beholden to a despised foreign power. Clinton doesn't come anywhere near that level of baggage and, given it's Clinton, that's astonishing! The Trump team nixed just one element of the party platform, support for Ukraine. Given his appearing to be willing to cede the Baltics this man is a grave danger to Europe (and that's before his desire to break up and weaken the European trading bloc). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 14:48:08 GMT
Even so, he doesn't seem to have to get his money from special interest groups. No bigger special interest group than Russia. Imagine that, a president in hock to his dodgy creditors and beholden to a despised foreign power. Clinton doesn't come anywhere near that level of baggage and, given it's Clinton, that's astonishing! The Trump team nixed just one element of the party platform, support for Ukraine. Given his appearing to be willing to cede the Baltics this man is a grave danger to Europe (and that's before his desire to break up and weaken the European trading bloc). True. He is an danger to the world. And so is Clinton. Neither of them should be president. I'm with Jill |
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Post by Michael on Jul 24, 2016 15:35:21 GMT
If he were British, Bernie would be a member of the Tories. Really? I'd heard Bernie was extreme left-wing. I imagine Hillary would be Conservative or Lib Dem, but I reckon Bernie would be Labour. The point I was trying to make is this: by American standards, the Republicans are centre-right and the Democrats centre-left. However, compared to the political spectrum here in Europe, they are shifted to the right. If the Democrats were to take part in an election in Europe as they are, they'd be considered centre-right, and the Republicans far right. If one of our European left/centre-left parties were to compete in an election in the US, they'd be decried as socialist or even communist. |
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2016 15:40:55 GMT
Hilary Clinton is a self-serving liar.
Donald Trump is a self serving liar, AND a racist narcissistic psychopathic demagogue.
I prefer the former. Her actions are rational and predictable.
The latter is so unpredictable, we'll all have sleepless nights if he wins.
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2016 15:43:43 GMT
Really? I'd heard Bernie was extreme left-wing. I imagine Hillary would be Conservative or Lib Dem, but I reckon Bernie would be Labour. If the Democrats were to take part in an election in Europe as they are, they'd be considered centre-right, and the Republicans far right. If one of our European left/centre-left parties were to compete in an election in the US, they'd be decried as socialist or even communist. That is true. Bernie Sanders is an exception though. He is on the left, even by our standards. He only joined the Democrats officially last year, having been a socialist independent for years previously. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 24, 2016 16:51:52 GMT
I got no problem with Bernie Saunders I would go for him.
November 4 months away, should be enough time to dig a bunker at the end of the garden.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 17:00:06 GMT
Really? I'd heard Bernie was extreme left-wing. I imagine Hillary would be Conservative or Lib Dem, but I reckon Bernie would be Labour. The point I was trying to make is this: by American standards, the Republicans are centre-right and the Democrats centre-left. However, compared to the political spectrum here in Europe, they are shifted to the right. If the Democrats were to take part in an election in Europe as they are, they'd be considered centre-right, and the Republicans far right. If one of our European left/centre-left parties were to compete in an election in the US, they'd be decried as socialist or even communist. Very true. In Belgium some far right political parties have been called racist, while they're very much to the left of the Republicans and actually support social security, abortion, euthanasia etc. |
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