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Post by wimpie3 on May 16, 2024 13:20:19 GMT
I'm a bit confused about what's listed on the official Phantom of the Opera website.
Basel, Budapest, Vienna and Madrid are listed as "new productions".
I know that the Broadway Entertainment Group does an international tour with the Paul Brown set (no staircase, no crashing chandelier) in Dubai, Sofia, Lisbon, Basel and Antwerp.
So why is Basel listed on the official site, and not the rest of the cities?
Are Budapest, Vienna and Madrid separate (non touring) productions? With the old/original (London) or new sets?
There's also something called an "international tour" which mainly travels through China but only starts in September... no idea what set will be used there. Or is this the same tour as the one from the Broadway Entertainment Group?
Exactly how many sets are traveling right now and who can provide me an overview of what currently can be seen?
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Post by Alejo on May 16, 2024 19:55:56 GMT
The Madrid production is a new version that premiered in Italy last year. So new staging, sets and costumes with Geronimo Rauch playing Phantom. It will continue a second year in Madrid, following a short run in Bilbao in August/September during the summer break. From what I can tell, the Vienna production is the Laurence Conner version that toured the UK in 2012. And Budapest and Basel appear to be completely new productions. I'm not sure why only Basel is listed if it's part of a bigger tour though. I've always assumed the International Tour that travels around China is a replica of the current London production, which is why there is no mention of "New Production" next to the listings on the official site. |
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Post by BVM on May 16, 2024 20:02:56 GMT
Not a Phantom expert but as stated above Vienna is the Cam Mac 25th anniversary version originally directed by Laurence Connor. It is (sort of) open ended and definitely not part of a tour. Though musicals in Vienna tend to run in seasons, often closing just before the Summer break. Though this opened recently and is booking through the Autumn.
In fact when I went a few weekends ago was completely sold out.
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Post by SuttonPeron on May 16, 2024 21:39:20 GMT
The China tour uses the 2019 World Tour set. Sculpture-less proscenium and onstage angel aside, it is faithful to the original production (not the current London version).
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Post by ash on May 18, 2024 7:39:09 GMT
I think the tour that's coming to Basel is the production that originated in Oslo in 2018, and subsequently went on to Greece and recently Dubai. It's an entirely new production.
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Post by wimpie3 on May 18, 2024 10:16:21 GMT
"New production" = the laurence o'connor one?
I have the impression you don't even know which version you're about to see as a visitor. In Antwerp the show is being sold as "the original". Which is not true at all.
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Post by robinhanssen on May 18, 2024 11:37:40 GMT
I wonder if anyone is familiar with the version that played in Dubai. There is a new international tour comming and its also coming to antwerp for a month. I live in the Netherlands and we are still waiting for revival since the original production played from 1993/1996 Can anyone provide me details on that production in Dubai. The picturey used on the site dont look verry great in comparison to the original production. It looks really cheap and stripped down.
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1,432 posts
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Post by BVM on May 18, 2024 12:01:23 GMT
"New production" = the laurence o'connor one? I have the impression you don't even know which version you're about to see as a visitor. In Antwerp the show is being sold as "the original". Which is not true at all. Connor lol. I mean it’s new to Vienna and 99% of the audience so it’s firmly in the realms of fairly usual advertising I’d say 🤷🏻♂️ |
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Post by robinhanssen on May 18, 2024 13:17:40 GMT
"New production" = the laurence o'connor one? I have the impression you don't even know which version you're about to see as a visitor. In Antwerp the show is being sold as "the original". Which is not true at all. Connor lol. I mean it’s new to Vienna and 99% of the audience so it’s firmly in the realms of fairly usual advertising I’d say 🤷🏻♂️ |
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Post by robinhanssen on May 18, 2024 13:20:09 GMT
"New production" = the laurence o'connor one? I have the impression you don't even know which version you're about to see as a visitor. In Antwerp the show is being sold as "the original". Which is not true at all. right? Am thinking about going to that one as well. They use photos of the production that played in Dubai. But they don't list any creatives. Meanwhile some tickets are just as expensive as the west end version. Am going to send them an email for clarification. |
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Post by Alejo on May 18, 2024 19:53:23 GMT
"New production" = the laurence o'connor one? No. Only Vienna is the Laurence Conner one. Budapest, Basel and Madrid are also new - and all different from each other - productions. They're listed on the official site as new to indicate they are not replicas of the original staging. |
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Post by Alejo on May 18, 2024 19:56:31 GMT
"New production" = the laurence o'connor one? I have the impression you don't even know which version you're about to see as a visitor. In Antwerp the show is being sold as "the original". Which is not true at all. right? Am thinking about going to that one as well. They use photos of the production that played in Dubai. But they don't list any creatives. Meanwhile some tickets are just as expensive as the west end version. Am going to send them an email for clarification. The one going to Antwerp (and Basel) is the same one that played Dubai. Here is the official site: www.broadwayentertainmentgroup.com/thephantomoftheoperaHere are the creatives: www.broadwayentertainmentgroup.com/creatives |
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Post by wimpie3 on May 18, 2024 20:07:00 GMT
If you look around a bit on youtube and Instagram, Vienna and Dubai seem to be identical copies of the Connor set ...
The chandelier doesn't crash, just falls down a bit. No staircase for Bal Masqué, and a spiral tower for the descend towards the lair. Other costumes, other choreography. Same music though.
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Post by Alejo on May 18, 2024 20:21:36 GMT
If you look around a bit on youtube and Instagram, Vienna and Dubai seem to be identical copies of the Connor set ... The chandelier doesn't crash, just falls down a bit. No staircase for Bal Masqué, and a spiral tower for the descend towards the lair. Other costumes, other choreography. Same music though. As BVM confirmed above, Vienna IS the Connor set because it's the Connor production. The same one that toured the UK in 2012. The creatives are listed on the official Vienna website here (under the section "Leading- und Kreativteam"): www.musicalvienna.at/de/spielplan-und-tickets/spielplan/production/1064/DAS-PHANTOM-DER-OPER/calendarBut as you can see from the link in my previous post, the creatives for Dubai (and Antwerp) are different. Not sure how similar the productions are as I haven't seen the Dubai/Antwerp one. |
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Post by wimpie3 on May 18, 2024 20:48:00 GMT
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6 posts
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Post by wimpie3 on May 18, 2024 20:56:11 GMT
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Post by robinhanssen on May 19, 2024 7:11:04 GMT
That looks more like an average set for a ballet piece instead the set of a gothic romantic thriller its supposed to be. So no thanks. After seeing these pictures am not going. |
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Post by SuttonPeron on May 19, 2024 20:12:51 GMT
At least it´s got more personality and charm than the Connor tour or Milan/Madrid design... although I don´t like where they stage the "Wishing" scene in this production.
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Post by dollybm on May 20, 2024 13:49:37 GMT
The Dubai 2024 version was lightyears different from the Dubai 2019 version- for the worse. It was the worst production of Phantom I’ve ever seen (I’ve seen pre-Covid London, UK Tour 2012, 25th Anniversary RAH, World Tour 2019 and post-Covid London), which was a crying shame as the cast was unbelievably talented. The costumes were cheap, the sets extremely wobbly and it also changed aspects of the story entirely (almost in a way that anticipates linking better to Love Never Dies).
The tour opening in China later in the year seems to be the same as World Tour 2019.
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Post by robinhanssen on May 20, 2024 17:55:02 GMT
The Dubai 2024 version was lightyears different from the Dubai 2019 version- for the worse. It was the worst production of Phantom I’ve ever seen (I’ve seen pre-Covid London, UK Tour 2012, 25th Anniversary RAH, World Tour 2019 and post-Covid London), which was a crying shame as the cast was unbelievably talented. The costumes were cheap, the sets extremely wobbly and it also changed aspects of the story entirely (almost in a way that anticipates linking better to Love Never Dies). The tour opening in China later in the year seems to be the same as World Tour 2019. but if I understand it correctly: the 2019 production was actually pretty similar to the original production right? Its unbelievable how more and more original old but gold and good formulas get replaced by non replica productions. Especially for me as part the younger generation of theatregoers. The fact that I'll that i will never get to experience the Phantom or miss Saigon in its original form makes me so sad. |
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Post by SuttonPeron on May 20, 2024 18:56:52 GMT
The 2019 world tour was the last production Hal Prince supervised. It was the only production that kept running for several months in 2020 (in Seoul, Busan and Taipei). A brand new high-tech set was made (mostly following the original design), which was also used in the recent Chinese-language tour (and will be used again this time).
I´m so glad I got to see the show in its full original, 27-piece, Prince-Lynne-Bjornson glory. And so sad that aside from Japan/Korea, it cannot be seen anymore. It was an absolute masterpiece.
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Post by dollybm on May 21, 2024 6:42:36 GMT
The Dubai 2024 version was lightyears different from the Dubai 2019 version- for the worse. It was the worst production of Phantom I’ve ever seen (I’ve seen pre-Covid London, UK Tour 2012, 25th Anniversary RAH, World Tour 2019 and post-Covid London), which was a crying shame as the cast was unbelievably talented. The costumes were cheap, the sets extremely wobbly and it also changed aspects of the story entirely (almost in a way that anticipates linking better to Love Never Dies). The tour opening in China later in the year seems to be the same as World Tour 2019. but if I understand it correctly: the 2019 production was actually pretty similar to the original production right? Its unbelievable how more and more original old but gold and good formulas get replaced by non replica productions. Especially for me as part the younger generation of theatregoers. The fact that I'll that i will never get to experience the Phantom or miss Saigon in its original form makes me so sad. Yes you’re exactly right, the only truly noticeable differences were the Angel was replaced by the statue like it is post-Covid London and perhaps this was just MD specific but Masquerade was performed at a glacial tempo. I felt the 2019 World Tour staging of AIAOY (Reprise) despite being almost identical to what is in London now was more impressively lit. I don’t think it works as well in London somehow. I totally agree with you on access to original stagings, it’s also quite striking just how quickly it can all be eroded as well. I’m all for updating if required but I think we can’t truly forget what’s come before. I know of course things like Shakespeare you’re never going to get a 100% authentic as it was production but I do apply this to all the ‘modernized’ Shakespeare’s as well. I wish there was more variety in some being more traditional and some viewed through the ‘modern’ lens. ETA: there also needs to be transparency and honesty with what production people should expect to see. Taking Phantom Dubai 2024 as an example it was constantly advertised as ‘the Production returning to Dubai after last being played in 2019’ which I think was extremely misleading. I was well aware it was a different production but most will just base entirely on what’s being communicated in advertising. |
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Post by viserys on May 21, 2024 7:12:10 GMT
Honestly... I don't think anyone except a few very obsessive Phans even care.
I saw the original Phantom version about a dozen times in various places (London, Vienna, Hamburg, Scheveningen) in the 90s, then returned to it in the early 00s on an invite and found myself bored to death because I knew exactly what was happening in every scene and how it would look like. It had also begun to look really creaky and dated in parts.
I was so put off that I haven't seen Phantom since. Which is now more than 20 years ago. When a newsletter announcing Antwerp plonked into my mailbox this week, I spontaneously and happily booked. The show hasn't been this close to me geographically in ages and I don't CARE what it looks like as long as it's not the tired original version.
It was similar with Les Miserables, I just couldn't bear to see the original version anymore. After the overhaul, I finally went to see it again in London and then caught the Dutch tour. I enjoyed seeing it again fresh and not knowing what every new scene would bring.
There is a debate to be had, in my opinion, whether shows are being done any favours with these endless runs that cater mostly to tourists. So many shows that had been around when I got interested in musicals in the late 80s/early 90s are now seeing completely fresh re-inventions like Lloyd's Sunset Boulevard, the ballroom version of Cats in New York or the upcoming new Starlight Express. I'd much prefer to see more theatres in London being freed up for NEW shows (that don't find room right now) while those tired old fossils are mothballed for at least a decade and then being done fresh. I'm not a fan of Jamie Lloyd's work by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd be so here for a minimalist horror version of Phantom.
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Post by robinhanssen on May 21, 2024 9:25:54 GMT
I dont necessarily mind a new production. The obvious reason that its a much cheaper production that clearly lacks the love and passion for details without bothering for the costs, its what turns me against these new productions. To my verry subjective taste it depends what show it is. I've enjoyed the New Version of Les Mis. But mainly because so many elements where similar to the original production. With Jesus Christ superstar (dont hate me here) I loved the recent van Hove staging and I finded Jamie Lloyd's version of Sunset Boulevard. I will say this one thing: speak for yourself. Not everybody is agreeing on your progressive agenda that everything should be that way. The original production can live perfectly fine among new productions. Lets see what people will chose.
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Post by robinhanssen on May 21, 2024 9:29:51 GMT
but if I understand it correctly: the 2019 production was actually pretty similar to the original production right? Its unbelievable how more and more original old but gold and good formulas get replaced by non replica productions. Especially for me as part the younger generation of theatregoers. The fact that I'll that i will never get to experience the Phantom or miss Saigon in its original form makes me so sad. Yes you’re exactly right, the only truly noticeable differences were the Angel was replaced by the statue like it is post-Covid London and perhaps this was just MD specific but Masquerade was performed at a glacial tempo. I felt the 2019 World Tour staging of AIAOY (Reprise) despite being almost identical to what is in London now was more impressively lit. I don’t think it works as well in London somehow. I totally agree with you on access to original stagings, it’s also quite striking just how quickly it can all be eroded as well. I’m all for updating if required but I think we can’t truly forget what’s come before. I know of course things like Shakespeare you’re never going to get a 100% authentic as it was production but I do apply this to all the ‘modernized’ Shakespeare’s as well. I wish there was more variety in some being more traditional and some viewed through the ‘modern’ lens. ETA: there also needs to be transparency and honesty with what production people should expect to see. Taking Phantom Dubai 2024 as an example it was constantly advertised as ‘the Production returning to Dubai after last being played in 2019’ which I think was extremely misleading. I was well aware it was a different production but most will just base entirely on what’s being communicated in advertising. |
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