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Post by Jon on Jul 2, 2016 22:50:18 GMT
I don't agree with illegal recordings period, that could distract other audience members. Then again watching a 'recording' on the internet done illegally or in the cinema done legally never substitutes to being there in the theatre and watching a live performance, I for one do not enjoy watching theatre through media platforms. In New York as someone said earlier, you can go down to the Lincoln Centre archives and watch nearly every show that has been on Broadway, obviously current Broadway shows aren't available. There is no cost to viewing this and I have used this service many a time. So if they can offer this service, then once a show is done why don't they just stick on the Internet for everyone to enjoy? Doing this may attract more potential theatre fans. Because you can access something digitally wouldn't put me off from going to the theatre and I would say this would be the same for everyone that goes to the theatre, the experience is very different and unique. To give an example you can visit anywhere on Google Maps and view anything with images, does this stop people visiting cities, such as Paris, Berlin, Sydney or New York? No because visiting a place is a far more satisfactory experience than visiting a place via your laptop or tablet, even though there is no cost involved and you never get wet or suffer sunburn. If shows are put on the net legally, it would stop the illegal bootlegging instantly. I don't think putting shows online would stop bootlegging, people will still record it on their phones as some don't want to pay money to see actual live theatre but it might reduce it but given the costs involving for something like Miss Saigon or Billy Elliot the latter had Universal Pictures behind it and many producers probably don't want to record a show as it can potentially be revived at a later date. It's likely the reason why concert versions of shows like Les Mis, Phantom etc are recorded but not the shows themselves. |
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Post by 49thand8th on Jul 3, 2016 0:33:54 GMT
Sorry for the multiple posts but I have to add- a lot of shows and actors use illegal footage and photos for press and promotion (including many actors who openly condemn such footage, only to favorite/retweet/ use on their website's reel etc. moments later :/ ). To an embarrassing degree- you'd have to wonder what their real stance on this is, as they do also benefit from it to a certain degree. Many love it. Some actors miiiiiight even have been found on the old bootleg message boards and livejournal communities, especially when they were flourishing quite a bit in the late '90s to mid 2000s. Not that they aren't around now, but some personalities definitely popped up. Hell, a recent Annie documentary included a bootleg video and labeled it "audience capture," and one of the Rent documentaries included an audio clip of the NYTW production. No doubt there are as many (or more) people out there who value them for archival or historical purposes despite their illegality. In my case, 90% of the shows I watch on YouTube are ones that: * closed when I was not in a position to go see them (for geographical or monetary reasons) * ran for only a short amount of time and I wasn't going to be able to see it anyway due to prior commitments * I hadn't even heard they existed so I never saw them In each of these three scenarios, I don't represent a lost sale of any kind. In some cases, I watched and saw that show, probably multiple times, in which case I still don't represent a lost sale and in fact did pay for my ticket. (In discussion of "bootlegs," think a lot of people conflate audio and video bootlegs, when it's the latter that can cause much of a disruption in the moment.) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 1:04:44 GMT
I'm always amazed when i see bootleg recordings of shows from years back. Back then, video recorders were huge sit on the shoulder things, how did they get them in/get away with it??
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jul 3, 2016 5:09:37 GMT
I get annoyed if I see it in the theatre whilst im there, but yeah, I watch Bootlegs on YouTube regularly haha! Usually Broadway productions that I may not get to see (there is a now a full Broadway recording from an audience member of the Broadway production of School of Rock I am attempting to hold off watching!). 
But then there is also historical productions that you may not get to see again! There is a full Bootleg video of Bernadette's Gypsy, and there was one of Patti's too, but I can't find it anymore. To name a few! This is so funny- that boot may or may not end before the finale with an usher saying in the background "Is there a camera here" and a voice going "no of course not" and cutting to black... Of course, I wouldn't know  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 6:00:54 GMT
I get annoyed if I see it in the theatre whilst im there, but yeah, I watch Bootlegs on YouTube regularly haha! Usually Broadway productions that I may not get to see (there is a now a full Broadway recording from an audience member of the Broadway production of School of Rock I am attempting to hold off watching!).
But then there is also historical productions that you may not get to see again! There is a full Bootleg video of Bernadette's Gypsy, and there was one of Patti's too, but I can't find it anymore. To name a few! This is so funny- that boot may or may not end before the finale with an usher saying in the background "Is there a camera here" and a voice going "no of course not" and cutting to black... Of course, I wouldn't know I just watched the last few seconds to see whether this happened, hilarious! but that usher seemed really loud! I mean, I know the show is loud etc but it seemed like him yelling would of been more distracting than the camera!
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 3, 2016 8:32:11 GMT
Why do you record all my phone calls, are you planning a bootleg of me?
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Post by viserys on Jul 3, 2016 8:48:02 GMT
This is so funny- that boot may or may not end before the finale with an usher saying in the background "Is there a camera here" and a voice going "no of course not" and cutting to black... Of course, I wouldn't know I just watched the last few seconds to see whether this happened, hilarious! but that usher seemed really loud! I mean, I know the show is loud etc but it seemed like him yelling would of been more distracting than the camera!
One thing I absolutely loved in Moscow was the laser-pointer wielding usher. A girl in the row before me was fiddling with her mobile phone (don't think she was recording, just checking texts or something?) during the show and suddenly a red blast of doom hit her phone, which quickly disappeared. Yes, the laser-pointer was a bit distracting but it was a matter of seconds and definitely more effective than potential shouting or trying to get the girl's attention from the aisle. Would like to see this used in London (or anywhere really) both for people trying to illegally record something or just the phone addicts who feel it necessary to fiddle with their phones in the middle of a show. |
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jul 3, 2016 9:03:35 GMT
I just watched the last few seconds to see whether this happened, hilarious! but that usher seemed really loud! I mean, I know the show is loud etc but it seemed like him yelling would of been more distracting than the camera!
One thing I absolutely loved in Moscow was the laser-pointer wielding usher. A girl in the row before me was fiddling with her mobile phone (don't think she was recording, just checking texts or something?) during the show and suddenly a red blast of doom hit her phone, which quickly disappeared. Yes, the laser-pointer was a bit distracting but it was a matter of seconds and definitely more effective than potential shouting or trying to get the girl's attention from the aisle. Would like to see this used in London (or anywhere really) both for people trying to illegally record something or just the phone addicts who feel it necessary to fiddle with their phones in the middle of a show. I think I read somewhere that this is a thing in Japan too apparantly? Yes i agree- it could be effective, as I imagine they see most phone users from the back, it would save the hussle of going up to the person and arguing with them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 9:06:08 GMT
The other thing that does annoy me is, being epileptic, having a torch flash bright into the person next to me isn't all that great either. If the show warns it ahead of time I can be fine because I am expecting it, but a sudden flash that is unexpected near me can mess with my head a bit. So I don't appreciate people near me on their phones. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 10:17:00 GMT
The other thing that does annoy me is, being epileptic, having a torch flash bright into the person next to me isn't all that great either. If the show warns it ahead of time I can be fine because I am expecting it, but a sudden flash that is unexpected near me can mess with my head a bit. So I don't appreciate people near me on their phones. Whenever I eat peanuts in public (like on a train) I always ask those around me is its ok (incase someone dies or something). U could totally do this in the theatre, explain to everyone around not to get their phones out! I may start doing this |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Aug 12, 2016 21:30:01 GMT
I don't understand why all shows don't get DVD releases (obviously not still running/touring ones). Is it THAT expensive to record a show? And I'm sorry... I've never brought the whole "it will damage ticket sales" argument; it will only damage ticket sales if the show is rubbish and people decide not to go and see it live - in that case blame the creative team not the musical theatre nerds who just want to watch decent shows! It's not like people watch bootlegs with bad intentions, it because they just f**king love theatre! Without the Sondheim pro-shot bootlegs I would never had discovered his work at such an early age.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 21:57:09 GMT
Is it THAT expensive to record a show? Yes. It's not just a matter of sticking a camera there and leaving it. You need a proper production team. (Fans may say they'd be happy with a single-camera setup, but they wouldn't be happy when they discovered that a static view of the whole stage completely drains the life out of a production.) You need to negotiate contractual payments with every single person involved, and you have to consider not just the direct cost of the payments to all those people but also the ongoing administrative overhead of making sure each person gets exactly the correct amount. The people who produce shows are not idiots. The reason they don't sell recordings isn't because they aren't clever enough to think of it. It's because they're clever enough to know when they'd lose money on it. |
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Post by kathryn on Aug 12, 2016 22:04:55 GMT
Legitimately producing stuff for sale always costs more and is more complicated than people think it is. Bootleggers don't have to worry about this stuff!
A DVD of Hamilton would doubtless be worth doing, though.
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Aug 12, 2016 22:28:58 GMT
Is it THAT expensive to record a show? Yes. It's not just a matter of sticking a camera there and leaving it. You need a proper production team. (Fans may say they'd be happy with a single-camera setup, but they wouldn't be happy when they discovered that a static view of the whole stage completely drains the life out of a production.) You need to negotiate contractual payments with every single person involved, and you have to consider not just the direct cost of the payments to all those people but also the ongoing administrative overhead of making sure each person gets exactly the correct amount. The people who produce shows are not idiots. The reason they don't sell recordings isn't because they aren't clever enough to think of it. It's because they're clever enough to know when they'd lose money on it. I know it's expensive, but it's not extortionate surely? Wasn't it The Guardian who used to stream live theatre for free? The National can manage to broadcast live. Bend It Like Beckham was recorded - and that brought in poor numbers towards the end. Maybe I should direct my anger towards the BBC for not funding the broadcast of more theatre like they did with Gypsy at Christmas. Filmed Theatre is not a modern thing - it was very common in the 60's/70's (and those recordings are more than watchable) - I wonder when and why it died out... I'm not saying people who produce shows are idiots - but at the same time it's not like the recording of non-commercial theatre has been properly tested - 'Digital Theatre' bring out a new show in what feels like every decade. NT Live Screening still seems to be going strong - but the National is a different beast entirely I guess... XXX |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Aug 12, 2016 23:57:12 GMT
It can be extortionate. And filming something for commercial release is a lot more expensive than for a one-off live screening.
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Post by 49thand8th on Aug 13, 2016 2:28:37 GMT
Legitimately producing stuff for sale always costs more and is more complicated than people think it is. Bootleggers don't have to worry about this stuff! This is the same reason a lot of creative teams don't always go after fan blogs/fan social media accounts. They know it's technically illegal, but because fans can work so much faster -- with images, gifs, memes, etc -- without the legal hurdles to jump over, the advertising is worth it for them and the bad PR isn't. I don't think I could find it right now, but in an article I read a couple years ago, I believe it was someone who worked on PR for Game of Thrones who said that was basically why they leave the fan accounts alone. So not exactly the same thing as bootleg videos of theatre, but similar. And not to mention the countless people who work in theatre who have and enjoy bootlegs as well, but it's not like they're going to openly talk about it. I'm sure we all know of someone who has something of themselves. |
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Post by fiyero on Aug 13, 2016 11:38:25 GMT
One thing I absolutely loved in Moscow was the laser-pointer wielding usher. A girl in the row before me was fiddling with her mobile phone (don't think she was recording, just checking texts or something?) during the show and suddenly a red blast of doom hit her phone, which quickly disappeared. Yes, the laser-pointer was a bit distracting but it was a matter of seconds and definitely more effective than potential shouting or trying to get the girl's attention from the aisle. Would like to see this used in London (or anywhere really) both for people trying to illegally record something or just the phone addicts who feel it necessary to fiddle with their phones in the middle of a show. I think I read somewhere that this is a thing in Japan too apparantly? Yes i agree- it could be effective, as I imagine they see most phone users from the back, it would save the hussle of going up to the person and arguing with them. It was a think in Paris too (at Cats) they used them to point out your seats (rather than a vague point) and to blind phone users! |
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Post by danielwhit on Aug 13, 2016 11:59:23 GMT
Legitimately producing stuff for sale always costs more and is more complicated than people think it is. Bootleggers don't have to worry about this stuff! A DVD of Hamilton would doubtless be worth doing, though. Wasn't there an interview not that long ago in which Lin-Manuel Miranda said he was considering doing a proper recording? |
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 13, 2016 12:12:49 GMT
Legitimately producing stuff for sale always costs more and is more complicated than people think it is. Bootleggers don't have to worry about this stuff! A DVD of Hamilton would doubtless be worth doing, though. Wasn't there an interview not that long ago in which Lin-Manuel Miranda said he was considering doing a proper recording? It's been done! Being kept in a vault in Gringotts until who knows when or what for, he jokes. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 13:32:12 GMT
Yes they filmed it with the original cast before some of them left but are smartly not releasing it anytime soon.
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Post by anthony40 on Aug 13, 2016 20:49:54 GMT
And what about shows (West End and Broadway) that are filmed and projected into cinemas and never released. OR shows that are filmed for archive reasons for the V&A. American Psycho was filed and I was at a screening recently at the V&A.
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Post by fiyero on Aug 13, 2016 20:56:08 GMT
I'll be honest, I love my recordings (audio) of some shows I have acquired. I Can't Sing never got a cast recording, nor did Viva Forever but I love my OCRs of them.
I do love watching the videos on Youtube but hate when I see people raise their phones for photo at the theatre or concerts so am conflicted!
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