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Post by max on Nov 30, 2023 17:55:51 GMT
Well, I guess as long as they make even a bit of money for the producer in these straitened times they're never going to stop; I get it. But....
I have just digitised 374 theatre programmes that date back to when I was a teenage theatregoer. Even for shows I hadn't been wild about I thought it was more useful to have a version than bin them, in case there's a performer I want to track down for a project in future. That's two big under-bed boxes full, binned in favour of digital. But - I hardly ever buy a programme today, and rely on the website and the expectation that these days the information will forever be out there somehow online. I don't need to spend the money, or have the clutter.
The excellent Metta Theatre Company ('In The Willows' musical) have made it their practice to have a sign and QR code in the foyer, explaining that they're not contributing to Environmental Waste but there's an online programme available.
I might happily pay a small amount at booking time to get access to 'Special Content for Ticket Buyers' if shows made an 'exclusive' segment of their website. A basic Freesheet at the theatre might point to that possibility - then if you love the show you'll want more (interviews, rehearsal footage, excerpts etc). But does this exist? Should it?
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Post by toomasj on Nov 30, 2023 18:38:36 GMT
As you’ve summarised in the first paragraph, they make a nice margin on these - and losing programmes/brochures would be a huge loss of income for them which will be passed onto customers anyway in other ways.
Bars/programmes/concessions are the lifeblood of many theatres, and if anything theatres are desperate to increase spend per head rather than reduce it. It’s why we see so much packaging of tickets/drink/programme/signed poster/VIP meet and greet offers now.
Things like posters, programmes, brochures, meet and greets, ice cream have tiny capital expense needed on stock (if any, in the case of meet and greets or signed items) and enormous mark ups.
I personally don’t buy them, except for the occasional souvenir brochure when I really, really love a show or cast - but 99% of venues can’t afford to not have them.
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Post by mkb on Nov 30, 2023 18:39:53 GMT
I agree. I always buy programmes, and frankly, with everything I acquire, I am a suitable candidate for one of the C4/5 hoarders tv episodes.
I'd love it if I could just get a pdf copy. It would be more readily accessible too.
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Post by Jon on Nov 30, 2023 19:47:38 GMT
I've had to be more selective with programmes mostly because I'm running out of places on my shelf.
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Post by Dave B on Nov 30, 2023 23:53:10 GMT
I love programmes, I love flyers, I love physical tickets. I try to get something for everything I see from fringe through West End. I keep 'em in chronological order and look back every now and again.
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Post by Rory on Nov 30, 2023 23:57:06 GMT
I love programmes, I love flyers, I love physical tickets. I try to get something for everything I see from fringe through West End. I keep 'em in chronological order and look back every now and again. I completely agree, Dave! I love a programme, a poster and a flyer, any tangible representation of a show! I wish all the shows would go back to doing flyers. I've got tonnes of them from the early 90's onwards.
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Post by max on Dec 1, 2023 0:23:53 GMT
Putting the flyers in chronological order was a great idea Dave B, it'll really capture your history of theatre going, and changing trends. As well as Programmes and brochures I also scanned flyers (around 600 of them! clearly the freelance work wasn't coming in over the summer lol) but in alphabetical order.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Dec 1, 2023 0:36:42 GMT
There is a huge cultural value in ephemera. Getting rid of theatre tickets, programmes and flyers would rob future generations of access to important documents and images.
PDFs won't last. Websites get taken down.
Real objects can be preserved.
I once undertook a short research project into the history of the Oxford University Opera Club and found that a huge quantity of material was held at the Bodleian Library. Old posters. Programmes. Minute books from committee meetings. Reviews. Details that would lost otherwise. Even the adverts contain important snippets of history.
Let's not rob future generations of their cultural history. That isn't progressive.
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Post by nick on Dec 1, 2023 7:09:58 GMT
There is a huge cultural value in ephemera. Getting rid of theatre tickets, programmes and flyers would rob future generations of access to important documents and images. PDFs won't last. Websites get taken down. Real objects can be preserved. I once undertook a short research project into the history of the Oxford University Opera Club and found that a huge quantity of material was held at the Bodleian Library. Old posters. Programmes. Minute books from committee meetings. Reviews. Details that would lost otherwise. Even the adverts contain important snippets of history. Let's not rob future generations of their cultural history. That isn't progressive. I agree with most of this but I can’t see pdfs vanishing anytime soon. Museums and libraries are digitising their collections like mad. And I’m sure they preserve their digital collections as diligently as their physical collection. Digitising improves accessibility. I’m interested in fashion magazines and there are amazing French and Spanish collections available at the click of a button. This also helps preserve the physical collection because, once digitised, they don’t need to be handled as often.
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Post by Dr Tom on Dec 1, 2023 9:43:33 GMT
I can see the appeal of programmes, but I just end up with too much clutter. Back in the days when I used to promote events, we always had programmes (although with nowhere near the production values of today). Lots of people would buy them, you could have signed copies for prizes, and they would make a big different towards whether an event was profitable or not.
They are largely worthless afterwards, unfortunately. I do sometimes buy collections of old programmes purely for interest value and they're fascinating to look through, especially for shows I attended and didn't buy a programme first time around. I still have nowhere really to put them!
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Post by yokollama on Dec 1, 2023 12:18:42 GMT
I decluttered during the first lockdown and have since veered away from purchasing programmes. Takes up too much space and I only flick through them once in a blue moon. I've still got a stack of maybe 40-50 programmes left I'm thinking of donating. I keep a spreadsheet of the shows I've seen instead, including information on the cast members I liked.
I do wish we didn't do away with physical tickets at most venues, and I find flyers more difficult to hunt down. I have now turned my attention to collecting magnets, but wish they'd get more creative instead of the standard rectangular magnets.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 12:46:10 GMT
I've got programmes going back nearly 30 years, several storage boxes full. I did weed out any unsigned ones a few years ago and don't buy so many now. I do have a fond spot for them but if the demand isn't there I can see them stopping eventually especially if they are produced by the receiving theatres.
A big West End/Touring show will still likely have programmes/brochures like concert tours do and these will still sell but for touring plays or limited runs at a producing theatre I can see them ending.
Meet and Greets outside of "Members/Opening Night events" in plays/musicals are unlikely to happen IMO.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Dec 1, 2023 13:31:40 GMT
Boxes under beds? "Clutter"? Mine are on a bookshelf in my living room, with absolute favourites in frames on my living room wall (behind my sofa because otherwise my eye is drawn to them and I get distracted) - the artwork on some programmes are just to good to be shoved under a box.
And these represent some of the happiest times for me, shows I've seen and loved, shows my best friend and I saw together (she died in 2021). I have some posters too - my Guys & Dolls from The National in 1996. A Les Mis signed by Killian Donnelly and John Owen Jones. The Love Never Dies death mask signed by Ramin on the last matinee performance. The Lend Me A Tenor CD Cover signed by the cast. I've got The Play That Goes Wrong poster signed by the cast. My Sunset Boulevard signed by Glenn Close! And my most recent acquisition - Groundhog Day programmes (both 2016 and 2023) signed by Andy Karl - and unsigned ones that I will arrange next to each other, eventually, for the whimsy of it.
My Pirates of Penzance at Wimbledon in 2002 which shows "Policeman" as Ramin Karimloo. My Pirates of Penzance at Drury Lane in 1982 with Tim Curry. My Spamalot playbill signed by Hank Azaria and David Hyde Pierce in New York on my birthday in 2005.
These bring me such joy. I don't buy many now, only if the show really rocks my world, but - objects of joy.
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Post by jm25 on Dec 1, 2023 14:27:12 GMT
I buy a programme for every show I see and, as others have also said, for me they’re not just an information resource but physical mementos of the show. At the back of each one I write the date I saw the show, where I sat, who (if anyone) I saw it with and how much I paid. If I’m lucky enough to be in the front row and “bits” from the show land on or in front of me, I’ll also pop them in, almost like a scrapbook. Obviously I’m not there nicking anything from the stage (!) but I have a some bits of confetti from Sunset Boulevard and The Little Big Things, a blade of grass from Jerusalem, etc.
I’m a big fan of theatres selling playtexts as well as programmes. I have a whole shelf dedicated just to playtexts of shows I’ve seen, all in the order I saw them. They’re nicer to look at on a shelf because, unlike programmes, they’re all fairly uniform in size and it’s easier to see at a glance what each one is.
I remember being quite amused buying a programme and playtext at Lemons (x5) at the Harold Pinter when the staff member selling them excitedly told me I was saving a penny by buying them as a bundle!
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Post by peggysue on Dec 1, 2023 15:08:22 GMT
I have programmes going back 40 years and have no intention of getting rid of them. Each one has a flyer(if available), ticket, who I went with and small review. Autographed programmes are in a separate box which I often look at for their special memories.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 16:21:19 GMT
A lot depends on what storage space we have, I've never counted my proogramme total but 23 years of pretty regular theatre going with a couple of years both sides being more selective I must have over 1,000 easily and a lot are A4 sized. The RSC ones alone must be nearer 100 than 50 and those were quite hefty.
When people on here have been regular theatre attendees probably 20 years more than me even if they saw less shows on average per year their collections would dwarf mine.
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Post by anxiousoctopus on Dec 1, 2023 16:24:07 GMT
I really like show programs, but my one gripe is I wish they would standardise them with consistent big and small size options. Certain like Back To The Future have programs/brochures that are way bigger than others and it makes them so difficult to file away alongside other ones!
Basically any bigger than A4 shouldn’t be allowed, except in special circumstances
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Post by david on Dec 1, 2023 21:12:17 GMT
I'm another massive theatre programme collector. For me it's a lovely souvenir of the show and something nice to flick through years later for a trip down memory lane of my theatre going in years gone by as well as if someone you see on stage and later become a big star I can say I've got a record of I was there at the start of their career. With some shows doing digital programmes, I will make the effort to print them out post show to add to my collection.
It is a shame that there has been a move to e-tickets. I have got some lovely colourful tickets stored away in my programmes, again a lovely piece to add to my theatre going history. It's also interesting to look back at how the price of tickets has changed over the years.
I'm all for a more uniform size programme system. It can be a real pain to store them nicely with all the different sizes both on my theatre travels and when I get back home.
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Post by marob on Dec 1, 2023 21:51:30 GMT
I saw a tweet a few years ago by an artistic director about how they don’t like programmes but audiences moan if there isn't one. Several replies from other theatre types generally agreeing that they’re a waste of time. I was surprised how dismissive they were of them, if only for the money they bring in. They can keep their drinks and sweets, but I’ll always buy a programme if there is one.
The good ones that have had a bit of effort put into them can be invaluable for providing background and context. Like when I went to the last day of Angels in America and got the very last one from the programme stand. Without that I wouldn’t have known that not only was Roy Cohn a real person but he was also a mentor to then President Trump, which definitely impacted how I viewed that character.
Problem now is that a lot of them aren't that good. Recent biggish tours to ATG venues have been really basic: adverts, a list of credits, artist bios, a double page spread of the credits again, creative bios, more adverts. 5 or 6 quid for nothing much, which is just a cash grab.
I don’t trust digital stuff. The idea that things are always available online is just not true. I used to have a digital magazine subscription, then they changed their system and all the back issues I’d paid for were no longer available. I bought digital copies of Angelo Badalamenti’s score to Twin Peaks. Gone. BBC Shop/Store or whatever closed so the archive programmes I’d bought are no longer available (but they did at least issue refunds.)
Local theatres have done free online programmes recently. Nice in theory, but once that show’s over so is the programme, so no referring back. If I was going to pay for a digital programme it would have to be downloadable to keep.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 17:49:51 GMT
If programmes did disappear I'd hope theatres would do cast lists for free like the playbills they do in the US or at least have a cast list up in the foyer as I do like to know who is in the shows. Casting can be on websites but a lot of people wouldn't immediately look for them.
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Post by bordeaux on Dec 2, 2023 17:56:23 GMT
When my dad died about eight years ago, one of the pleasures was going through his past programmes, dating back to school productions in the 1940s and university productions in the early 50s, the casts containing names like Robert Robinson and Shirley Williams who would go on to fame in later life. I felt I was brought closer to his life before we children came along. In those days programmes were just often just a folded sheet of A4 paper with lots of adverts, but it was fascinating too seeing programmes for the touring Donald Wolfit's productions in the 50s (he saw them in Newcastle), the odd Edinburgh festival show from that era and later on the touring shows that went to Cambridge where we lived in the 60s and 70s.
I hope that my daughters enjoy looking through my programmes when I die - in 25 or so years of course - and they will get the thrill of seeing famous names like Ralph Fiennes and Mark Rylance when they were in their 20s, the programmes of the original productions of, say, Arcadia and Dancing at Lughnasa, McKellen as Iago and Richard III, Fiona Shaw as Richard II, Maggie Smith in Albee, Gambon and SRB as Vanya. But, yes, they do take up a lot of room!
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Post by mkb on Dec 2, 2023 20:56:39 GMT
.. the casts containing names like Robert Robinson and Shirley Williams who would go on to fame in later life... Is that the same Robert Robinson as the one who hosted Call My Bluff? There's an episode of Ask the Family, that he also chaired, currently on BBC iPlayer. That was a must-watch when I was a young adult. It's as good as I remember, and much better put together than any modern-day quiz. Robinson hosts with such wit, charm and intelligence, and rattles through the questions at a rate of knots. Sorry for going off-topic, but you stirred a pleasant reminiscence.
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Post by bordeaux on Dec 3, 2023 11:39:18 GMT
.. the casts containing names like Robert Robinson and Shirley Williams who would go on to fame in later life... Is that the same Robert Robinson as the one who hosted Call My Bluff? There's an episode of Ask the Family, that he also chaired, currently on BBC iPlayer. That was a must-watch when I was a young adult. It's as good as I remember, and much better put together than any modern-day quiz. Robinson hosts with such wit, charm and intelligence, and rattles through the questions at a rate of knots. Sorry for going off-topic, but you stirred a pleasant reminiscence. Yes, it is. I loved Ask the Family as a child - we watched it as a family in the 70s. I believe they tried to revive it a few years ago but it didn't work - and I seem to remember Mark Lawson in the Guardian admitting that whilst he normally defended modern culture against its older versions even he was aghast at how much the revival had been dumbed down.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 21:31:05 GMT
Is that the same Robert Robinson as the one who hosted Call My Bluff? There's an episode of Ask the Family, that he also chaired, currently on BBC iPlayer. That was a must-watch when I was a young adult. It's as good as I remember, and much better put together than any modern-day quiz. Robinson hosts with such wit, charm and intelligence, and rattles through the questions at a rate of knots. Sorry for going off-topic, but you stirred a pleasant reminiscence. Yes, it is. I loved Ask the Family as a child - we watched it as a family in the 70s. I believe they tried to revive it a few years ago but it didn't work - and I seem to remember Mark Lawson in the Guardian admitting that whilst he normally defended modern culture against its older versions even he was aghast at how much the revival had been dumbed down. Robert's daughter Lucy is a well established actress currently touring in Noises Off. Robert was a very well known presenter on both radio and television and was very witty so I could easily imagine him having done acting and reviews in his younger years. He was a film and theatre critic before moving into broadcasting too. I was interested to find out Shirley Williams had done some acting mainly at university that was one I'd not heard of given she was a very well known politician/academic and public figure for many years. Slightly off topic too but once at Malvern Festival Theatre I did a bit of stage dooring after a matinee and an older gentleman who I used to see in the audience from time to time but rarely ever stage doored turned up with an original Hair programme from late 1960's which he wanted Paul Nicholas to sign. The cast included Marsha Hunt, Elaine Paige and Floella Benjamin I think. When Paul saw that he was very impressed and started mentioning all the household names who were on that show with him.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Dec 3, 2023 21:56:46 GMT
I used to buy a programme for everything it was just like a ritual I had to get one and collect them all. I stopped when I started to realise what a waste of money it was and extra expense it is to an already expensive trip cus I started to go a bit Martin Lewis and get all obsessed with money saving and finances. They are all in storage boxes under my bed now can't tell you the last time I looked at any of them or had any inclination to. Honestly what a waste of money and wish I didn't bother.
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