Brexit

Parliament acts for the good of the whole country. Individual MPs are the mouthpiece for issues affecting their constituents, and their constituents' views, but their duty is to direct the development and running of the country as a whole, not purely the tiny microcosm that voted them in.

What is in the best interests of their constituents and the country is their call, based on the information laid before them. Many of them have clearly come to the obvious conclusion that No Deal is not in the best interests of anyone and have acted to stop it. That is their prerogative, that is their job and their duty, and it is the very heart of the function of Parliament.

Many MPs have shown that their loyalty doesn't, in fact, lie with their party but with their duty. That is to be applauded, not criticised.

Not party politics, which is partisan in ways that led me to move away from it (for the record, I was a labour party member over thirty years ago, partly around the time of Militant entryism). There is more to grass roots activism than party politics, however.

You just can’t hark back to the past to tie people to the future. You lose, you make changes, you do so by seeing what the membership think. That overrides a losing manifesto. If Labour change their position on Brexit, or whatever, to appeal to voters in the next election then so be it.

Nicholas - I just finished watching the whole sorry debate on BBC Parliament. At the tail end, after Johnson had refused to stay for points of order on his replies, there were many shellshocked (not too strong a word) MPs explaining how their lives had just been made so much more dangerous by Johnson’s language, his attitude and his airy denial of guilt. Jo Swinson said that today she had to report a threat made about her five year old child. This wasn’t just a dangerous response it was pathologically dangerous.

I don’t think name calling is appropriate.

The power invested in members of a political party is something that I find worrying. It puts power in the hands of few (see the Conservative leadership vote, complete with UKIP entryists) and, as we have seen, has driven both main parties out to their extremes. I understand it, and how it can be used, I dislike it intensely. Even with that, manifestos only hold sway if ideas remain unaffected by events and the need to appeal to voters, to stick to them is inflexible dogma.

I agree that bringing Jo Cox into it was totally wrong. Tracy Brabin spoke with dignity and composure when she disagreed with it. The other female Labour MP was rather hysterical and I must admit that I had never even heard of her before let alone as a strong voice in the Brexit debate.

As in the furore over the language in Parliament last night we need to self moderate.

Over half of the population of the UK voted to leave who cannot all be considered stupid, racist and uneducated and therefore there is validity in the position of wanting to leave the EU.


I am a remainer at heart and would be amenable to a Deal somewhere between Norway+ and Canada+ which requires compromise on all sides.

We are being dictated to/shouted at by the fringe 10% on the extreme Leave/Remain spectrum and most of us who are and in the middle 80% need to come together somehow or at least be able to consider a counter position with respect.


I am surprised with the revulsion the Labour position is being met with, it is trying to build bridges, agree a Norway+ / Canada+ Deal with the EU, get agreement in Parliament and then give a clear description of the pluses and minuses of Remain / Leave against the defined Deal in a referendum and allow the public to decide on facts.

I do not find this complicated but appear to be in a minority, maybe in the toxic political world we have created extremism is what we look for in our Leaders and find the shift to ‘extremism’ on Brexit by the Lib Dems uncomfortable which is pushing me me towards supporting Labour despite a lot of their policies becoming too Left leaning for me to be comfortable with, even though some form of re-distribution of wealth is long overdue.

At the moment the Benn Act is in place to make leaving with No-Deal unlawful within the constraints of the Act.

If we have a vote of no-confidence and Parliament is prorogued for a General Election there is no recourse only through the Courts and this could take time.

The date of the General Election is the prerogative of the sitting Government if no other Government can be agreed.

We have a Prime Minister who knowingly misleads and the feeling in Parliament is that he will say one date and once Parliament dissolved change it to a date after the 31st Oct.

There is no Prime Minister in place as we are in the process of voting in a new Government on the 19th Oct, therefore no Prime Minister in place to request an extension as explicitly stated in the Act cannot be fulfilled.

We will fall back to the original Act of extension which means that on the 31st Oct we will leave without a Deal as we have agreed in law to leave on the 31st.


This why there is caution in calling a General Election, there has been talk today of a Government of Unity to cover the next 6 weeks removing Johnson, this is still being considered so at the moment the only thing to do is keep Parliament in session until there is an agreed extension, while Parliament sits further Bills/Acts can be introduced or the Benn Act amended if a loop-hole is found to further tighten the straight jacket around Johnson. (this is why Parliament was prorogued unlawfully as no Parliament no chance of meddling Acts)

Obviously the corollary is why Johnson is desperate for a General Election and why we have the strong language to force a vote of no confidence, at the moment the Opposition Parties are holding firm and the impact on Johnson is obvious as he crumbles before us, one caveat is we need to tread carefully as a caged Prime Minister is potentially a dangerous thing and he will likely become even more extreme to force a reaction as it is his only available course of action.


Once a General Election is called and the Conservatives win they will implement the Brexit Strategy of their Manifesto and as you say we could still leave without a Deal.

Limping along for another 3 years with a dysfunctional Parliament is Political suicide for all Parties therefore all that can be done is delay until after the 31st Oct with an extension in place, have a General Election, it will be up to us to read the manifestos and elect a Government that meets our position.

The likelihood is that we will have a hung Parliament and my opinion is that we need another referendum prior to a General Election, Deal ratified in Parliament put to the people against remain and move on, if we cannot define what Leave means even though we voted for it why do we expect our elected representatives to know.

Dave25 updated my original post as I realised I hadn’t covered this point.

I see that the people behind the Shakespeare's Rose Theatre are blaming Brexit for the liquidation of the company - who'd have thought it would be Brexit instead of terrible management and a location that people only wanted to visit once that would do for them.

For shame Boris, for shame.

I think whatever our views on brexit most of us would agree with you on this one!

I cannot see how this is ever going to be resolved as there seems to be so much vitriol and with the 50/50 split with yes or no to Brexit I cannot see how this country will ever be the same again. Depressing I know but this has been a real game changer for politics and how this country is seen by the world.