1,972 posts
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Brexit
Dec 16, 2018 15:20:09 GMT
Post by sf on Dec 16, 2018 15:20:09 GMT
But I don't think it's right to point at Twitter bots or targeted Facebook ads as the driving force behind Brexit or the Gilets Jaunes etc.. That's good, because those Guardian/Observer articles don't do that - which you'd know if you'd actually read them. They've carried out a forensic analysis of the various money trails, the conclusions they draw are pretty damning, and there appears to be more than enough evidence to warrant a police investigation and/or a government inquiry. As for the Guardian being in love with Assange, they are clearly not that in love with him. There's credible evidence suggesting he may be one of the connecting points between people involved in the Trump campaign and people involved in Vote Leave.
Beyond that - I live in a Northern working-class area too, in a place where the Leave vote was 61%. As I said, I do think people sincerely voted for what they thought was best, but there's also absolutely no doubt in my mind that the infamous lie-on-the-side-of-a-bus had some impact with people who were (legitimately) concerned about the state of the NHS. Indeed, I know one person who actually told me that's why he voted the way he did (and he regrets it now). I don't know whether targeted ads had any impact. I do know that the Electoral Commission has ruled that the regulations were breached and the Leave campaigns a) overspent and b) coordinated spending in ways that break the law. That's a big deal, and I find it quite disturbing that the response from both the government and the main party of opposition has so far been so muted. As I said somewhere else, the impact of targeted ads in political campaigns is uncharted water. I don't know that they were the "driving force" behind Brexit or Trump or the Gilets Jaunes, and that's not what those various Guardian pieces are suggesting. Given how effective targeted social media advertising can be in marketing campaigns, it is credible to suggest they helped push the winning side over the line in a close contest. We regulate other forms of political advertising very stringently in this country; the issue here isn't just whether targeted social media advertising or Twitter bots had any impact, it's that the law hasn't caught up with technology and (related) that this kind of targeted online campaigning is far more difficult to regulate than advertising in broadcast or print media. One of the lessons from all of this is that the laws on our books are a dozen steps behind the technology available to campaigners. That should be a big wake-up call.
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3,040 posts
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Brexit
Dec 18, 2018 11:21:03 GMT
Post by crowblack on Dec 18, 2018 11:21:03 GMT
My challenge with this is that the EU is very largely *not* the reason why 'left behind' people feel left behind. It's been set up as a useful patsy by people with other agendas. There are clearly numerous agendas at play here, but joining the EEC did have an impact when it came to re-orienting Britain's trading patterns towards the Continent-facing South East, with a knock-on effect to some industries. In the case of my home town, the port saw a threefold decline in trade while Dover saw a corresponding rise (there's interesting work by Overman and Winters for the LSE on this). |
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1,863 posts
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Brexit
Dec 19, 2018 6:38:42 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 19, 2018 6:38:42 GMT
Sensationalist headlines on troop deployment, for something that is ‘overwhelmingly good’ and the ‘will of the people’
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3,040 posts
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Post by crowblack on Dec 19, 2018 9:56:16 GMT
Which is surely the point - trying to bounce MPs into voting for May's Deal when for various reasons nobody much seems to want it. I can't help feeling all those Keep Calm and Carry On cushions were sold in vain. |
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5,073 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 19, 2018 18:39:17 GMT
With the promised doom of food shortages, there could be ration books with nice shiny blue covers!!!
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1,972 posts
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Brexit
Dec 19, 2018 20:16:53 GMT
Post by sf on Dec 19, 2018 20:16:53 GMT
Sensationalist headlines on troop deployment, for something that is ‘overwhelmingly good’ and the ‘will of the people’
Instructing businesses to prepare for a no-deal scenario might well be the single most irresponsible thing any UK Prime Minister has done in my lifetime.
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4,995 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 20, 2018 9:10:51 GMT
JC and the “stupid woman”. I’m sure he said it, it was wrong but can you please deal with it after the Brexit sh*t storm has passed over
Stop dicking around and waisting parliamentary time
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2,763 posts
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Brexit
Dec 20, 2018 9:27:48 GMT
Post by n1david on Dec 20, 2018 9:27:48 GMT
JC and the “stupid woman”. I’m sure he said it, it was wrong but can you please deal with it after the Brexit sh*t storm has passed over Stop dicking around and waisting parliamentary time Couldn’t agree more. Two important developments yesterday, the EU no deal proposals and our new immigration policy. Both of those should have been higher in the news bulletins than what Corbyn said or didn’t say. On another issue, there’s a lot of talk of “Managed No Deal”. Isn’t that... just a different deal? Which, presumably, we can get in 100 days? |
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1,972 posts
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Brexit
Dec 20, 2018 17:24:00 GMT
Post by sf on Dec 20, 2018 17:24:00 GMT
JC and the “stupid woman”. I’m sure he said it, it was wrong but can you please deal with it after the Brexit sh*t storm has passed over Stop dicking around and waisting parliamentary time Couldn’t agree more. Two important developments yesterday, the EU no deal proposals and our new immigration policy. Both of those should have been higher in the news bulletins than what Corbyn said or didn’t say. On another issue, there’s a lot of talk of “Managed No Deal”. Isn’t that... just a different deal? Which, presumably, we can get in 100 days?
"Managed no deal" is not a thing. It's spin, nothing more. A no-deal scenario will be managed only in the sense that the army will be on standby and the EU said yesterday they'll introduce certain temporary measures to ensure planes don't have to stop flying and we won't immediately be restricted to 3000 haulage permits.
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2,763 posts
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Brexit
Dec 20, 2018 22:54:25 GMT
sf likes this
Post by n1david on Dec 20, 2018 22:54:25 GMT
Couldn’t agree more. Two important developments yesterday, the EU no deal proposals and our new immigration policy. Both of those should have been higher in the news bulletins than what Corbyn said or didn’t say. On another issue, there’s a lot of talk of “Managed No Deal”. Isn’t that... just a different deal? Which, presumably, we can get in 100 days? "Managed no deal" is not a thing. It's spin, nothing more. A no-deal scenario will be managed only in the sense that the army will be on standby and the EU said yesterday they'll introduce certain temporary measures to ensure planes don't have to stop flying and we won't immediately be restricted to 3000 haulage permits.
The point is that Leadsom and Dorries and others are saying, it won't be No Deal, it will be a Managed No Deal, and we'll sort out the details before Brexit day. Dorries said on Peston last night that there were going to be no Customs checks going into the EU because we'd somehow arrange a "Managed No Deal" before March 29. They don't seem to understand that the EU published proposals for No Deal yesterday, and that includes customs checks, and the only other deal on the table is May's deal. There is no other option. Brexiters cannot arrange a "Managed No Deal" before March 29 because the EU aren't going to start a new negotiation after two years. Yet we are still being told that No Deal will not mean "crashing out" because somehow, in the next 99 days, the Brexiters are going to agree some arrangement from scratch. It's complete fantasy. In exactly the same way that we could have a general election and Corbyn could his own deal in the same timeframe. There is a phenomenal lack of reality in British politics at the moment. |
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999 posts
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Post by Backdrifter on Dec 21, 2018 14:18:10 GMT
^ While all that is true, and bad enough, I still can't push away the thought that the worst thing mentioned there is that Dorries is actually INVITED to appear on tv shows. Dorries??? You might as well ask for the views of a broken vacuum cleaner. That isn't plugged in. In fact, it would be more enlightening.
Politics is a mess and so is media.
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1,936 posts
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Brexit
Dec 21, 2018 15:51:20 GMT
Post by wickedgrin on Dec 21, 2018 15:51:20 GMT
You might as well ask for the views of a broken vacuum cleaner. That isn't plugged in. In fact, it would be more enlightening. Very funny! LOL |
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999 posts
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Brexit
Dec 28, 2018 13:06:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by Backdrifter on Dec 28, 2018 13:06:49 GMT
Just under 2194 hours to go.
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999 posts
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Brexit
Dec 31, 2018 20:49:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by Backdrifter on Dec 31, 2018 20:49:25 GMT
Now just over 2114 hours to go.
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5,073 posts
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Brexit
Jan 1, 2019 0:59:42 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jan 1, 2019 0:59:42 GMT
Let’s not worry about Brexit until 2019.
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999 posts
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Brexit
Jan 1, 2019 1:26:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by Backdrifter on Jan 1, 2019 1:26:54 GMT
Worry?
Who's worrying?
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4,995 posts
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Brexit
Jan 9, 2019 11:14:12 GMT
via mobile
sf likes this
Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 9, 2019 11:14:12 GMT
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4,995 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 15, 2019 13:12:03 GMT
Today is a no news day!
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999 posts
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Post by Backdrifter on Jan 15, 2019 13:17:05 GMT
^
Hahaha!
I love how it keeps being called a 'meaningful' vote. Unlike those pesky meaningless ones.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 14:36:47 GMT
Looking on the bright side, at least we don't have a leader whose response to not getting his own way is to throw a tantrum and shut down the government.
(Yet.)
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Brexit
Jan 15, 2019 15:54:14 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 15:54:14 GMT
The vote won't get through but when Corbyn calls vote of no-confidence the Tories will win that. I just wonder whether the hard Brexiteers might try to force an election so that if parliament was dissolved we crash out with no deal.
More seriously I think the moderates from the two main both parties might try to teach some agreement to get a vote through.
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5,073 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 15, 2019 18:04:59 GMT
I got off the Jubilee Line at Westminister this afternoon and saw one side pro remain and the other side leavers with their union jacks and and UKIP banners and in the middle by accident, looking very confused a handful of Japanese tourists.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 20:15:14 GMT
Biggest loss by a government in a Commons vote, even larger than expected and maybe the greatest loss ever (historians are probably scrabbling back through editions of Hansard to the 1832 Reform Act as we speak).
No majority for the deal and no majority for no deal. As the EU have said that negotiations are over that can only mean an extension of Article 50 in order to avoid a no deal or the revocation of it.
The endgame is now all about Article 50, any stuff about renegotiation is meaningless.
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 15, 2019 20:18:31 GMT
The government appears to be broken. Somebody needs to turn it off and on again.
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5,073 posts
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Brexit
Jan 15, 2019 20:51:17 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Jan 15, 2019 20:51:17 GMT
Complete contrast to Theresa May when she had a whooping majority when she run for the leadership of the Conservative party unopposed, then on course to win a landslide election, until she looked smug and said she favoured fox hunting and the dementia tax didn’t help her either, along with that disastrous party conference speech, she thought she be the next Maggie Thatcher.
Oh didn’t she run the last General Election on being the only party that could deliver Brexit?
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