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Post by n1david on Sept 25, 2018 8:52:22 GMT
Right. But the bottom line is that we do not have sustainable supplies of insulin in this country, and will be dependent on some sort of a deal before the stockpiles run out. That’s diabetes dealt with. Now how about HIV medication, chemotherapy isotopes and other health supplies. Hell of a lot of planning for something that was zero risk, no? |
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Post by vdcni on Sept 25, 2018 9:20:09 GMT
^Like we ran out of CO2 a few weeks ago because everybody closed for maintenance at the same time and nobody thought to stockpile? Yes because the anomaly of CO2 being produced as a by product of factories which close for maintenance over summer when demand for CO2 is at is peak is in anyway the same as us being forced to stockpile medicine because a load of self interested politicians can't even figure out how to negotiate the thing they've claimed they've wanted for 40 years is exactly the same isn't it. |
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5,707 posts
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 10:58:16 GMT
Post by lynette on Sept 25, 2018 10:58:16 GMT
I remember. You'd walk home along unlighted streets wondering if your side of the road would have electricity when you got in. Then you'd take a newborn home to a cold house with a calor gas camping cooker to make your dinner on. And I had it easy. The dark ages.
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2,762 posts
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Post by n1david on Sept 25, 2018 11:04:33 GMT
All politics and no common sense. Sums up Brexit really. |
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 11:27:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 11:27:43 GMT
Ah yes, power cuts and having to cook on a calor gas stove and eat by candlelight (parents cooking, thankfully). Was it avoidable? Maybe, but the economics of the era held sway. You aren't going to find much logic in politics where 'sending a message' is seen as much more important.
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3,321 posts
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 12:18:55 GMT
Post by david on Sept 25, 2018 12:18:55 GMT
In this time of complete madness, a little distraction - Yes Minister’s take on the EU
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4,156 posts
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 13:41:11 GMT
Post by kathryn on Sept 25, 2018 13:41:11 GMT
Ah yes, power cuts and having to cook on a calor gas stove and eat by candlelight (parents cooking, thankfully). Was it avoidable? Maybe, but the economics of the era held sway. You aren't going to find much logic in politics where 'sending a message' is seen as much more important. See, this is why I don't think it's alarmist to be worried. We know that occasionally politicians and governments can cock things up badly because they are too caught up in the politics (and the party-politics, especially) to focus on the practical impact of their actions. I've been involved in a couple of project planing meetings recently where we discuss the project risks. Our risks almost always fall into the categories of 'we will not make us much money as we could/our costs will rise; and we'll annoy people'. None of our risks are life or death stuff. The project failing would mean a sub-optimal outcome, but not that anyone's life would be permanently altered. But we still take them seriously - because that's what it takes to be a successful business. It doesn't seem like the government are treating life-altering risks inherent in the Brexit project with the same seriousness. |
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 13:50:22 GMT
Post by Jan on Sept 25, 2018 13:50:22 GMT
From the point of view of the argument the person on here raised, that it was an "avoidable issue," then yes, it's a valid reply. Same, if you think about it, for strikes. I don't think many on here remember the 70s "Winter of Discontent" and 4 day weeks etc, but again, it's in the "avoidable issues" category. All politics and no common sense. It was the three day week actually. There is an economic maxim that a crisis will repeat itself when the people who remember the last time have all gone. A Labour Government managing to preside over peak inflation of 27% (average 24%) in 1975 is likely to be a future example. |
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 13:57:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 13:57:24 GMT
I was too young to remember the winter of discontent let alone the 3 day week but can recall power cuts when the power workers went on strike. There will be scaremongering but companies need to sell products so why would they not want to be part of the UK market. We will get our fishing waters back and we have a natural flow of people from here to US so why should Europe be any different.
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395 posts
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 14:01:32 GMT
Post by lichtie on Sept 25, 2018 14:01:32 GMT
From the point of view of the argument the person on here raised, that it was an "avoidable issue," then yes, it's a valid reply. Same, if you think about it, for strikes. I don't think many on here remember the 70s "Winter of Discontent" and 4 day weeks etc, but again, it's in the "avoidable issues" category. All politics and no common sense. It was the three day week actually. There is an economic maxim that a crisis will repeat itself when the people who remember the last time have all gone. A Labour Government managing to preside over peak inflation of 27% (average 24%) in 1975 is likely to be a future example.
Well, it seems people have already forgotten the causes of that spike, since it was rising above 10% and still going upwards before Labour were elected... And lots of people certainly seem to have forgotten about the effects of the (Tory chancellor) Barber "boom". Then we have the oil price shock, rising (in real terms) wages after Heath's government failed to control those, etc. So I agree, things can happen again when people forget, but they forget very very quickly, and tend to remember only the last gasp of an event and not its causes.
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 14:29:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 14:29:45 GMT
I also remember we had a large number of days off school as there wasn't enough fuel to heat the place. The way that daily life was upended because of that one, relatively small, industrial dispute only goes to raise my level of concern at something that is going to be far more wide ranging in its effect.
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Post by n1david on Sept 25, 2018 14:31:42 GMT
I was too young to remember the winter of discontent let alone the 3 day week but can recall power cuts when the power workers went on strike. There will be scaremongering but companies need to sell products so why would they not want to be part of the UK market. We will get our fishing waters back and we have a natural flow of people from here to US so why should Europe be any different. Because it will cost them more to customise products for a UK market that has different standards and regulations, and they may not bother because the UK market, compared to that of the EU27, is so small. Not every product is sold in every country - for example, to take a huge example, Apple don’t sell their phones and watches in every country because it’s not worth their while jumping through the regulatory hoops in smaller countries. No one is saying that Apple will not sell stuff here, but the principle is the same, so some products will not be exported here or become more expensive if the manufacturer decides to pass on those additional regulatory costs. If we decide to stay in regulatory alignment with the EU, why are we bothering to leave? At the moment I can go online to a French website, buy something online and they can ship it to me in the same way as they would to someone in Paris or Prague. If, in the future, they need an export license, and need to complete customs declarations, and if I need to pay VAT when it comes into the UK (as I do if I order online from the US), that small retailer may just decide they don’t want the hassle as the extra paperwork costs them more than the benefit and they will no,longer sell to UK consumers. Lightbulbs are a good example - when incandescent bulbs were banned, it was claimed that when we left the EU we could unban them and manufacturers would be able to sell incandescent bulbs again. But they won’t, because the UK market isn’t big enough in itself to warrant keeping open production lines for that type of bulbs. As for the fishing industry, I’ve never understood why it is of such significance given it’s less than 0.5% of our GDP. And some fishermen is Scotland are very worried as their catches of langoustines, crayfish etc are sold mostly to French restaurants and they will potentially lose those markets. |
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 14:58:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 14:58:45 GMT
At the moment I can go online to a French website, buy something online and they can ship it to me in the same way as they would to someone in Paris or Prague. If, in the future, they need an export license, and need to complete customs declarations, and if I need to pay VAT when it comes into the UK (as I do if I order online from the US), that small retailer may just decide they don’t want the hassle as the extra paperwork costs them more than the benefit and they will no,longer sell to UK consumers. Many Amazon things are shipped from Europe so we can expect a lot of customs issues. They'll probably work something out, but I'd expect delivery times to increase.
A while back I bought something from the US and had it shipped over, and I had to go over to pick it up from a depot to pay the charges. Not massively arduous, but I wouldn't want to do it more than a couple of times a year because that office was only open during office hours. For things such as electrical equipment we have the option of continuing to accept the current EU standards to permit equipment to be sold in the UK, but we would have to pass it into UK law to do it. |
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2,762 posts
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 15:15:46 GMT
Post by n1david on Sept 25, 2018 15:15:46 GMT
For things such as electrical equipment we have the option of continuing to accept the current EU standards to permit equipment to be sold in the UK, but we would have to pass it into UK law to do it. And that’s probably what we’ll do initially, but when EU regulations change we’ll need to keep in step, in which case Brexit isn’t really delivering the freedoms people thought it would. Also, the EU would have to accept that our laws were equivalent to theirs, otherwise we could import their electrical products but they may not recognise our standards (even if functionally equivalent) and that would affect UK exporters. And so far they seem to be saying no to regulatory reciprocity. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 25, 2018 16:45:53 GMT
Well, you scared me so much that I decided to take the advice and start stockpiling. I put some cling peaches and a tin of spam in my ocado shop at the weekend to start things off. Unfortunately I got hungry earlier and ate them 😐
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213 posts
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 19:32:49 GMT
Post by peelee on Sept 25, 2018 19:32:49 GMT
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2,342 posts
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Brexit
Sept 25, 2018 20:52:00 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 25, 2018 20:52:00 GMT
We're all going to die aren't we?
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Sept 25, 2018 20:58:16 GMT
Well, yes. Eventually. Nothing in life as certain as that!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 11:05:55 GMT
Just going to regurgitate some appropriate twitter posts following todays news of confirmation that free movement will end.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 11:43:48 GMT
It's just depressing. The immigration "arguments" in favour of Brexit are so misguided it's terrifying.
And they seem to have ignored the fact that ending free movement will reduce the pool of decent hard-working people who do all the less skilled manual labour roles (such as refuse collection and street cleaning) which a lot of unemployed British people seem to think are beneath them and refuse to do in favour of staying on benefits...
I think it's perfectly obvious what needs fixed there...
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Post by sf on Oct 2, 2018 11:58:51 GMT
The immigration "arguments" in favour of Brexit are so misguided it's terrifying. As is the stupidity of people who insist - there are several in the thread below the Seb Dance tweet quoted further up this conversation, and they don't appear to have a braincell between them - that losing freedom of movement makes no difference because you'll still be able to go and work abroad, you'll just have to get a visa. NOBODY advancing that "argument" has ever gone through the time-consuming, expensive, and stressful process of obtaining any kind of long-term residential visa. It is not that simple, and it's not the same thing - at all - as having the right to live/work/retire/study in 30-odd other countries. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 12:05:14 GMT
The immigration "arguments" in favour of Brexit are so misguided it's terrifying. As is the stupidity of people who insist - there are several in the thread below the Seb Dance tweet quoted further up this conversation, and they don't appear to have a braincell between them - that losing freedom of movement makes no difference because you'll still be able to go and work abroad, you'll just have to get a visa. NOBODY advancing that "argument" has ever gone through the time-consuming, expensive, and stressful process of obtaining any kind of long-term residential visa. It is not that simple, and it's not the same thing - at all - as having the right to live/work/retire/study in 30-odd other countries. Absolutely. And it's not just one visa. Its [potentially] visa's for each country and don't forget all those carnets (again for each country) for anything your bringing with you that you need to be able to do that job. All of which costs. And going back to the post from @posterj - can't forget all those working in the currently booming construction industry, the majority of which are all foreign labourers. |
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4,156 posts
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Brexit
Oct 2, 2018 12:54:44 GMT
sf likes this
Post by kathryn on Oct 2, 2018 12:54:44 GMT
The immigration "arguments" in favour of Brexit are so misguided it's terrifying. As is the stupidity of people who insist - there are several in the thread below the Seb Dance tweet quoted further up this conversation, and they don't appear to have a braincell between them - that losing freedom of movement makes no difference because you'll still be able to go and work abroad, you'll just have to get a visa. NOBODY advancing that "argument" has ever gone through the time-consuming, expensive, and stressful process of obtaining any kind of long-term residential visa. It is not that simple, and it's not the same thing - at all - as having the right to live/work/retire/study in 30-odd other countries. Probably none of them have even had to get a tourist visa! My friend had to get one to visit the US last year because she'd had a holiday in Syria just before the trouble kicked off there - that was a day off work to visit the embassy in person, special photos, a hefty fee... We have colleagues in our Indian offices who have repeatedly been refused visas to visit us - no-one knows why, there's no chance of them overstaying. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 14:47:44 GMT
The immigration "arguments" in favour of Brexit are so misguided it's terrifying. I live in an area where there are quite a few immigrants. There are Polish and Romanian shops just down the road, several Indian shops and even a Caribbean place. They've never been a problem. But according to people who have probably never seen an immigrant in their entire lives they're ruining our town and we're supposed to live in fear of them. Personally I can't be bothered to live in fear of someone merely because they're not exactly like me.
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Brexit
Oct 7, 2018 8:45:14 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 8:45:14 GMT
Morning.
Get out.
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