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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 16:04:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by frappuccino on Jul 30, 2020 16:04:46 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies" More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it Well the example would have worked better with Corbyn. Haha!
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 19:55:01 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
basdfg , the EU followed the U.K. lead. The UK government announced in 2007 that incandescent bulbs would be phased out by 2011.In 2008, the Irish government announced a phase-out of the sale of any light bulbs with a luminous efficiency of less than 16 lumens per watt. Shortly afterwards, all member states of the EU agreed to a progressive phase-out of incandescent light bulbs by 2012. it is one of the myths that the EU imposed regulations on the U.K., a lot of EU Regulations were based on the U.K. BS Standards which were considered world leading (our love of bureaucracy as Boris would say is World Beating). The universal ISO 9000 family of Quality standards were derived from the U.K. BS5750 standards which themselves were derived from UK's Def Stan 05-21 and 05–24 Procurement Standards to increase the quality of procured armaments.
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Brexit
Jul 31, 2020 9:17:59 GMT
Post by jojo on Jul 31, 2020 9:17:59 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies" More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it For many years the SNP were a right wing party, and until fairly recently were proposing Scotland becomes a low tax state, or at least following the lead of the Republic of Ireland in giving tax breaks to the multi-nationals. It was only when they realised they needed to win votes from Labour that they shifted emphasis to social justice. But it was still based on the idea of not wanting to share the oil money with the rest of the UK. Now there's no tax revenue from oil, and Scotland would miss out on additional spend equivalent to the budget for the NHS in Scotland, and the idea of a left-wing Scexit to benefit the poor is less realistic than the imagined left-wing Brexit. It's all very well for the wealthy ideological nationalists to claim they are OK with a 'minor' reduction in wealth in exchange for 'sovereignty', but I think even most of them underestimate the immediate reduction in budget that would come with the end of Barnett, never mind the hit on the economy, or what happens when the disaster capitalists get involved. At present (pre COVID), the Scottish budget is running on a deficit of about 8% which is sustainable within the UK, but not as an independent state. The EU would require it to be no more than 3% so not only would it take years to be eligible to join, it would only happen after years of austerity that would make the last decade seem like a time of plenty. It's not just a case of cutting services or raising taxes, or dreaming of record breaking growth, to bring the deficit down. Then there's the question of currency, and while it's possible to keep using the pound, using another country's currency means less control over fiscal policy. Establishing a new currency is very, very expensive, and any country without an established currency, or healthy economy can only borrow on much higher interest rates, which adds to the expense. Then, like Brexit, there's the hit on the economy from creating new barriers with your main trading partners. Hoping that increased exports to non-UK countries will make up for it, is akin to the Tories announcing they're working on a great new deal with Australia. That said, Brexit was a terrible idea that will make us poorer and people voted for it, so logic doesn't always get a look in when people have convinced themselves of their own national superiority, and have believed politicians who have spent years blaming Brussels/Westminster for their own failings. Ironically, so much of the Brexit campaign used the messaging of the 2014 nationalist one. No voters were called anti-Scottish, and any question about ensuring public services would function properly were batted away with claims of fear mongering. Healthy scepticism was labelled as cowardice and so on. Any problems could be eliminated if only people were more positive. And if you thought banging on about WW2 was cringe-worthy, we had references to Bannockburn, which was exactly 700 years earlier. In short, the SNP try to be all things to all people. They try to win votes from Labour voters by claiming left-leaning credentials, which are not compatible with their nationalist agenda. Then they claim green credentials, which was at odds with their assumption of record North Sea oil extraction which was to fund their nationalist agenda. They were cutting council tax, a very Tory policy, while framing it as a tax cut to help the poor! Already the SNP have been sneaking in cuts to council budgets that were well in excess of the cuts from Westminster during austerity. They just blamed those cuts on Westminster, and used it as a reason to become independent. The spare money being spent on SNP vanity projects, and pay rises for the growing number of SNP ministers in the Scottish Government. In case you didn't know, Sturgeon's salary as First Minister is higher than Boris Johnson as PM, which is higher than Mark Drakeford as the First Minister of Wales. Second jobs come into play here - I'm not feeling sorry for Johnson here, but while Gordon Brown was giving the British PM a pay cut, the SNP were organising pay increases for Scottish Government ministers and justifying it as patriotic.
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2,340 posts
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Brexit
Jul 31, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 31, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it For many years the SNP were a right wing party, and until fairly recently were proposing Scotland becomes a low tax state, or at least following the lead of the Republic of Ireland in giving tax breaks to the multi-nationals. It was only when they realised they needed to win votes from Labour that they shifted emphasis to social justice. But it was still based on the idea of not wanting to share the oil money with the rest of the UK. Now there's no tax revenue from oil, and Scotland would miss out on additional spend equivalent to the budget for the NHS in Scotland, and the idea of a left-wing Scexit to benefit the poor is less realistic than the imagined left-wing Brexit. It's all very well for the wealthy ideological nationalists to claim they are OK with a 'minor' reduction in wealth in exchange for 'sovereignty', but I think even most of them underestimate the immediate reduction in budget that would come with the end of Barnett, never mind the hit on the economy, or what happens when the disaster capitalists get involved. At present (pre COVID), the Scottish budget is running on a deficit of about 8% which is sustainable within the UK, but not as an independent state. The EU would require it to be no more than 3% so not only would it take years to be eligible to join, it would only happen after years of austerity that would make the last decade seem like a time of plenty. It's not just a case of cutting services or raising taxes, or dreaming of record breaking growth, to bring the deficit down. Then there's the question of currency, and while it's possible to keep using the pound, using another country's currency means less control over fiscal policy. Establishing a new currency is very, very expensive, and any country without an established currency, or healthy economy can only borrow on much higher interest rates, which adds to the expense. Then, like Brexit, there's the hit on the economy from creating new barriers with your main trading partners. Hoping that increased exports to non-UK countries will make up for it, is akin to the Tories announcing they're working on a great new deal with Australia. That said, Brexit was a terrible idea that will make us poorer and people voted for it, so logic doesn't always get a look in when people have convinced themselves of their own national superiority, and have believed politicians who have spent years blaming Brussels/Westminster for their own failings. Ironically, so much of the Brexit campaign used the messaging of the 2014 nationalist one. No voters were called anti-Scottish, and any question about ensuring public services would function properly were batted away with claims of fear mongering. Healthy scepticism was labelled as cowardice and so on. Any problems could be eliminated if only people were more positive. And if you thought banging on about WW2 was cringe-worthy, we had references to Bannockburn, which was exactly 700 years earlier. In short, the SNP try to be all things to all people. They try to win votes from Labour voters by claiming left-leaning credentials, which are not compatible with their nationalist agenda. Then they claim green credentials, which was at odds with their assumption of record North Sea oil extraction which was to fund their nationalist agenda. They were cutting council tax, a very Tory policy, while framing it as a tax cut to help the poor! Already the SNP have been sneaking in cuts to council budgets that were well in excess of the cuts from Westminster during austerity. They just blamed those cuts on Westminster, and used it as a reason to become independent. The spare money being spent on SNP vanity projects, and pay rises for the growing number of SNP ministers in the Scottish Government. In case you didn't know, Sturgeon's salary as First Minister is higher than Boris Johnson as PM, which is higher than Mark Drakeford as the First Minister of Wales. Second jobs come into play here - I'm not feeling sorry for Johnson here, but while Gordon Brown was giving the British PM a pay cut, the SNP were organising pay increases for Scottish Government ministers and justifying it as patriotic. So not a fan of the SNP?
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2,340 posts
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Brexit
Jul 31, 2020 14:40:03 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 31, 2020 14:40:03 GMT
More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it For many years the SNP were a right wing party, and until fairly recently were proposing Scotland becomes a low tax state, or at least following the lead of the Republic of Ireland in giving tax breaks to the multi-nationals. It was only when they realised they needed to win votes from Labour that they shifted emphasis to social justice. But it was still based on the idea of not wanting to share the oil money with the rest of the UK. Now there's no tax revenue from oil, and Scotland would miss out on additional spend equivalent to the budget for the NHS in Scotland, and the idea of a left-wing Scexit to benefit the poor is less realistic than the imagined left-wing Brexit. It's all very well for the wealthy ideological nationalists to claim they are OK with a 'minor' reduction in wealth in exchange for 'sovereignty', but I think even most of them underestimate the immediate reduction in budget that would come with the end of Barnett, never mind the hit on the economy, or what happens when the disaster capitalists get involved. At present (pre COVID), the Scottish budget is running on a deficit of about 8% which is sustainable within the UK, but not as an independent state. The EU would require it to be no more than 3% so not only would it take years to be eligible to join, it would only happen after years of austerity that would make the last decade seem like a time of plenty. It's not just a case of cutting services or raising taxes, or dreaming of record breaking growth, to bring the deficit down. Then there's the question of currency, and while it's possible to keep using the pound, using another country's currency means less control over fiscal policy. Establishing a new currency is very, very expensive, and any country without an established currency, or healthy economy can only borrow on much higher interest rates, which adds to the expense. Then, like Brexit, there's the hit on the economy from creating new barriers with your main trading partners. Hoping that increased exports to non-UK countries will make up for it, is akin to the Tories announcing they're working on a great new deal with Australia. That said, Brexit was a terrible idea that will make us poorer and people voted for it, so logic doesn't always get a look in when people have convinced themselves of their own national superiority, and have believed politicians who have spent years blaming Brussels/Westminster for their own failings. Ironically, so much of the Brexit campaign used the messaging of the 2014 nationalist one. No voters were called anti-Scottish, and any question about ensuring public services would function properly were batted away with claims of fear mongering. Healthy scepticism was labelled as cowardice and so on. Any problems could be eliminated if only people were more positive. And if you thought banging on about WW2 was cringe-worthy, we had references to Bannockburn, which was exactly 700 years earlier. In short, the SNP try to be all things to all people. They try to win votes from Labour voters by claiming left-leaning credentials, which are not compatible with their nationalist agenda. Then they claim green credentials, which was at odds with their assumption of record North Sea oil extraction which was to fund their nationalist agenda. They were cutting council tax, a very Tory policy, while framing it as a tax cut to help the poor! Already the SNP have been sneaking in cuts to council budgets that were well in excess of the cuts from Westminster during austerity. They just blamed those cuts on Westminster, and used it as a reason to become independent. The spare money being spent on SNP vanity projects, and pay rises for the growing number of SNP ministers in the Scottish Government. In case you didn't know, Sturgeon's salary as First Minister is higher than Boris Johnson as PM, which is higher than Mark Drakeford as the First Minister of Wales. Second jobs come into play here - I'm not feeling sorry for Johnson here, but while Gordon Brown was giving the British PM a pay cut, the SNP were organising pay increases for Scottish Government ministers and justifying it as patriotic. Does Brexit make people poorer in Scotland but Independence and if Scotland is able to join join the EU make them a little richer than a UK Brexit Scotland?
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Brexit
Jul 31, 2020 16:16:20 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2020 16:16:20 GMT
With Scotland it would depend what sort of deal they could get from the rest of GB and whether the EU would take them back in. I'd think that NS and co would want fairly strong assurances from the EU that they would be accepted if a second independence vote went there way. Regardless of which party would be in power in the UK, it's main priority would be to it's citizens not propping up Scotland.
Thoughts on things like defence needs to be looked into. Would Scotand get into Nato, I guess if NS threatened to offer President Putin a submarine base on the Outer Heberides they'd soon be allowed in. Also would the poorer parts of Scotland which are third world like qualify for our sacred International Development Fund money?
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1,863 posts
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Brexit
Aug 3, 2020 16:08:44 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Aug 3, 2020 16:08:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2020 13:53:20 GMT
I was starting to think that with all this coronavirus crisis going on the PM and his acolytes had forgotten they had international laws to break and bigots to encourage. Got to stick to those self-imposed deadlines.
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4,156 posts
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Brexit
Sept 13, 2020 9:14:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by kathryn on Sept 13, 2020 9:14:59 GMT
What on Earth are they playing at?!
This can hardly have come as a surprise - the lawyers would have told them before they signed the WA exactly what it meant. Why decide that it’s such a problem that they need to break international law and tank our international reputation now?!
Was Boris simply not paying attention to the legal advice last year?
Surely the PLAN can’t have been to sign it, ratify it, run an election campaign on it, and then say ‘actually we were crossing our fingers behind our back’.
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2,761 posts
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Post by n1david on Sept 13, 2020 9:43:23 GMT
Boris 2019 would have removed the Conservative whip from Boris 2020.
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311 posts
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Brexit
Sept 13, 2020 10:08:32 GMT
Post by olliebean on Sept 13, 2020 10:08:32 GMT
At least two of the ERG stated ages ago that the only way Johnson had been able to get them to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement was by promising them he would break it; so really the only surprising thing about this is the open admission of the intention to do so, and to break international law in the process. My guess would be the plan is to provoke a no-deal response from the EU, so they can be blamed for the ultimate failure to exit the transition period with an agreed deal. As for the implications for our international reputation, I have no difficulty believing this is something Johnson won't have thought about, and Cummings doesn't care about.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 13, 2020 10:24:42 GMT
Ironically breaking the Withdrawal Agreement gives the EU a free hand to walk away.
Compliance to International Law is the foundation on which Trade Deals are built, they will continue to talk and carry on as normal until the Bill is passed into U.K. Law and then cite it as the reason for No Deal if one is not agreed.
If it is a ploy to create a ‘culture war’ both the EU and Labour are not taking the bait, both are just watching the Tories begin to tear themselves apart.
Today Starmer played a blinder when he said he would support the Bill if - no longer risk breaching international law - address devolved administrations concerns of a “power grab” rather than dismiss with a tantrum.
Impossible for Johnson & Co to comply and Labour basically continuing their incompetence theme, Tories couldn’t even understand the impact of a Withdrawal Agreement which they signed, championed and fought an election on.
Who says there aren’t enough right wing comedians when we have a government full of them, only the joke is on us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 10:33:15 GMT
At least two of the ERG stated ages ago that the only way Johnson had been able to get them to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement was by promising them he would break it; so really the only surprising thing about this is the open admission of the intention to do so, and to break international law in the process. My guess would be the plan is to provoke a no-deal response from the EU, so they can be blamed for the ultimate failure to exit the transition period with an agreed deal. As for the implications for our international reputation, I have no difficulty believing this is something Johnson won't have thought about, and Cummings doesn't care about. It’s the inevitable endgame of a decadent politics that has the avoidance of responsibility at its heart. Blame is always somewhere else (why scapegoating and demonisation of ‘the other’ are often bedfellows). Populism is its dying spasm, where grievance takes the place of policy. When nothing matters, anything goes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 10:38:09 GMT
Unfortunately there are a considerable number of people who genuinely believe that everything wrong with Britain is down to malicious foreigners who are somehow both vastly inferior to us yet able to successfully scheme against us, so if we adopt an attitude of "sod 'em all" the Empire will return and Britain will take its place as the rightful ruler of Earth while the foreigners who plotted to destroy us will be begging for whatever scraps of trade we deign to offer.
And they're almost right on the last part of that, except they have the sides switched.
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311 posts
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Post by olliebean on Sept 13, 2020 10:44:35 GMT
It’s the inevitable endgame of a decadent politics that has the avoidance of responsibility at its heart. Blame is always somewhere else (why scapegoating and demonisation of ‘the other’ are often bedfellows). Populism is its dying spasm, where grievance takes the place of policy. When nothing matters, anything goes. Yes, I've found it's a fairly good rule of thumb with this government, when the question arises "Why are they doing this?" to replace it with the question "How does this allow them to blame somebody else?"
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Brexit
Sept 14, 2020 22:52:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by talkingheads on Sept 14, 2020 22:52:32 GMT
We now have a tally of 340 MP's who are OK with breaking international law. On the same they they are trying to enforce the Rule of Six law. Beyond satire.
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Post by intoanewlife on Sept 14, 2020 23:18:56 GMT
We now have a tally of 340 MP's who are OK with breaking international law. On the same they they are trying to enforce the Rule of Six law. Beyond satire. On the plus side at least we can all still go grouse shooting/hunting with more than 6 of our mates x
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 6:06:31 GMT
I'm certain which way my MP voted because I don't think he's ever gone against the wishes of the government, obedient little puppet that he is. I live near a graveyard so perhaps I'll dig up a spine and send it to him as he's clearly in need of one.
(Turns out you can buy spines on Amazon. Hmmm...)
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4,993 posts
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Brexit
Dec 23, 2020 13:04:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 23, 2020 13:04:28 GMT
So very soon we could be on our own with our much hailed sovereignty and foreign made blue passports to cherish.
Looking at the pics of lorry drivers having a squirmish with the police is this a sign of things to come? I guess the situation has tested BJ's no deal planning and oh dear!
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Brexit
Dec 23, 2020 13:45:01 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 13:45:01 GMT
Apparently people in Kent are upset about all the lorries queueing for customs, because it doesn't seem to have occurred to them that this could happen with increased border checks. Elsewhere in the country some councils are complaining because it turns out that leaving the EU means they won't get their subsidies from the EU any more.
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2,340 posts
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Brexit
Dec 23, 2020 15:01:46 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 23, 2020 15:01:46 GMT
Getting loads of messages trade deal is done. Nothing in the news.... yet. Anyone else?
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5,062 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 23, 2020 15:40:16 GMT
Getting loads of messages trade deal is done. Nothing in the news.... yet. Anyone else? If recent history teaches as anything it is bound to end in tiers.
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1,863 posts
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Brexit
Dec 23, 2020 15:53:09 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 23, 2020 15:53:09 GMT
Also seeing these rumours.
The Coronavirus press conference is particularly bleak, if you were going to capitulate on a Trade Deal this would be a good time, attention will be focussing elsewhere, a long and slow transition period for fishing and the level playing field will include a way for the EU to limit trade if we digress too far but it will have been our decision as we are Sovereign.
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Post by theatreian on Dec 23, 2020 16:08:44 GMT
Yes it seems like a deal could be announced tomorrow. We could certainly do with some positive news after the briefing today. Still a trade deal and hope by Spring with the vaccination rollout is at least something to hold onto.
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Brexit
Dec 23, 2020 17:14:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 17:14:16 GMT
(Misplaced post moved to the vaccine thread.)
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