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Post by blamerobots on Jun 4, 2024 19:20:58 GMT
I agree chernjam we need more obscure ALW tidbits on this board..!
I don't believe Sunset Boulevard's Norma Desmond was written with Sarah Brightman in mind, but what I can believe is that the ideas back in the 80's he wrote in that creative period were for her.
ALW writes a lot of music. And he never really lets great little bits go unused, so it gets recycled. And there's no shame in that... that's a big part of the creative process for any songwriter.
(Some small trivia about that Evita example specifically; the modern orchestrations seem to be trying to step away from how blantant this recycling is in Buenos Aires, instead replacing that section that borrows this melody with a new dance break. It does however, mean that when this melody later appears in the Waltz, it makes no thematic sense. Oops!)
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Post by blamerobots on Jun 4, 2024 19:24:45 GMT
Very good deep dive max Funny you mention CW entering prematurely; seems like an issue he randomly has with this song in particular..! If you listen to the original Sydmonton bootleg, he makes the exact same mistake in that as in this concert. I don't know how they corrected it for the commercial release of the Albert Hall anniversary version. Was Sarah Brightman there at all performances? Or perhaps they kept everyone on for some retakes. What's on the bootleg of Colm seems beyond correction. The Albert Hall concert CD is a really funny release; it was definitely touched up in post, which is undeniable. But many mistakes and audio glitches seemingly still come through, which makes it both one of my favourite Phantom releases, but also the most shoddy one!
But all singers were mic'd separately, so Colm's messed up entry was likely digitally deleted from the multitrack, or was retimed. The album has a lot of timing correction, to mixed results.
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Post by mattnyc on Jun 4, 2024 19:50:04 GMT
...(Sarah) said that he wrote the score with her voice in mind (!!!) I think there might be at least some truth to this statement. Sort of confirmed here (well, in a way), especially from 01:12 to 01:30 I shall now forever refer to Brightman as “The Soprano Mermaid”.
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Post by alwfan on Jun 4, 2024 20:28:59 GMT
Very good deep dive max Funny you mention CW entering prematurely; seems like an issue he randomly has with this song in particular..! If you listen to the original Sydmonton bootleg, he makes the exact same mistake in that as in this concert. I don't know how they corrected it for the commercial release of the Albert Hall anniversary version. Was Sarah Brightman there at all performances? Or perhaps they kept everyone on for some retakes. What's on the bootleg of Colm seems beyond correction. Yes, Sarah Brightman performed at all three shows, on day 1, and the matinee and evening performances on the second. I believe the version on the commercial DVD was the one from the final evening (October 2nd if I remember right). Colm Wilkinson performed correctly during that show even though he came in too early on the two other dates (I remember watching audience video recordings of the full stage from the final performance where Cameron Mackintosh sort of clutches ALW in mock relief when Colm comes in at the right time!) I also remember ALW wore a pink shirt on the first day. Ramin Karimloo was presented at the beginning of the performance on the first day, didn't appear at all during the matinee, and arrived on stage just before the vocalization on the evening performance, so it's definitely what was broadcast.
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Post by alwfan on Jun 4, 2024 21:22:21 GMT
Oh I figured she'd be bad, but I was surprised that she's somehow been allowed to do this when the voice is THAT shot... Does make me think 🤔 how she does all these live concerts and sounds amazing … I remember seeing her harem tour and spoke to one of the sound guys he insisted of course she was 100% live and used no click tracks or anything. I said I was asking as she sounded so perfect I saw a you tube clip of her singing poto a few months back in concert sounded almost too perfect ? I’m a huge fan and saw her live in concert 4 times and she was amazing Shane to hear she’s not good now I'm also a big fan of Sarah's (majorly her early stuff 's till Symphony in 2008) and have always been fascinated about her live performances. I've seen a few, and others I have poured over videos online for years to try to work out how she does it and if she is actually singing live or not, because, as you said, she always sounds perfect! The conclusion I've come to is that there are a few songs that she always uses playback for and thus always sound pristine (POTO as you mentioned above, Nessun Dorma), some songs from a high note here or there are lip synched (eg: Running, Question of Honour, etc), and the others sung live. She has been singing most of these for the last 20 years, so as max said, is very aware of what and how to make them sound beautiful. Technical wizardry is also probably used to amplify her voice and reduce the deep breaths (which is becoming more noticeable in recent videos when compared with the same songs ten years ago). Her voice is not what it was all those years ago, and when she sings something live, it clearly shows some deficiencies, as opposed to something like POTO which when it sounds as perfect as it does, is at odds with some of the other performances. I remember reading on Facebook that someone who had either been in the choir or orchestra during one of her tours in the last ten years had said that she actually does sing live and does a lot of meticulous sound checks and rehearsals. Her last Christmas tour in December 2023 (a few months before Sunset you could say) was very interesting. She had made new arrangements to some of her old songs, performed a couple of new songs (which is very rare as she sticks to the same thing over and over), and to me sounded very live (bar POTO etc which actually felt out of place). The security was also very strict about recordings, and there are no videos to be found at all from this tour despite there usually being a lot in other years. I remember seeing some on a two different dubious Asian video sites after searching for months, but that was it. Two posted on YT were removed. I remember thinking at the time that she was probably using the opportunity change things up and prepare for Sunset. It'll be interesting to see how her concert is this year after almost six months of singing completely live on Sunset Boulevard. I hope she will at least do As If We Never Said Goodbye. My gut feeling (and hope), is that she will continue to get better as she settles into the show. For someone who has been doing concerts for the last 30 years, doing all of singing, acting, dancing, American accent, costume changes, working with an ensemble must take some time to get back into the swing of.
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Post by mattnyc on Jun 4, 2024 21:31:39 GMT
Has anyone else actually SEEN the show recently? Curious if her performance has changed/improved.
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Post by rosscoe on Jun 5, 2024 11:30:08 GMT
Has anyone else actually SEEN the show recently? Curious if her performance has changed/improved. . From what I’ve heard no, it’s not better sadly. I had the chance to go back and she her for a second time and couldn’t bring myself to sit through it again. I will go and see Silvie if I get the chance.
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Post by max on Jun 5, 2024 13:27:56 GMT
Very interesting alwfan . At some point a kind designer may favour a Norma by putting a huge pillar at the foot of the staircase allowing a bit of sleight of hand, and a body double to ascend the staircase with their face turned away from the audience. Norma's not on as much as Joe, but at least he's on the flat!
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Post by anthony40 on Jun 5, 2024 14:16:02 GMT
Very interesting alwfan . At some point a kind designer may favour a Norma by putting a huge pillar at the foot of the staircase allowing a bit of sleight of hand, and a body double to ascend the staircase with their face turned away from the audience. Norma's not on as much as Joe, but at least he's on the flat! Don't forget this is Joe's story, not Norma's!
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Post by max on Jun 5, 2024 15:38:35 GMT
Very interesting alwfan . At some point a kind designer may favour a Norma by putting a huge pillar at the foot of the staircase allowing a bit of sleight of hand, and a body double to ascend the staircase with their face turned away from the audience. Norma's not on as much as Joe, but at least he's on the flat! Don't forget this is Joe's story, not Norma's! Indeed! So give her an elevator, stair lift, or....bungalow? What they put Glenn Close through in the staged/concert version was quite something. Hats/turbans off to these women performers, because (other than undoing a few buttons in the title song, or roaming the streets like Tom Frances) Norma is actually a more physical role than that played by the younger actor who's the storyteller.
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Post by blamerobots on Jun 5, 2024 16:17:29 GMT
Don't forget this is Joe's story, not Norma's! Indeed! So give her an elevator, stair lift, or....bungalow? What they put Glenn Close through in the staged/concert version was quite something. Hats/turbans off to these women performers, because (other than undoing a few buttons in the title song, or roaming the streets like Tom Frances) Norma is actually a more physical role than that played by the younger actor who's the storyteller. "I guess it was five A.M.,
A homicide had been reported,
From one of those crazy bungalows up on Sunset"
I definitely would have Norma be coming down in a stair lift in my Sunset parody.
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Post by BVM on Jun 5, 2024 18:11:08 GMT
Its great to be in the company of people like Max and Magnificent Donkey who are as rabid ALW fans as I am and can recall these tid bits. Max - that makes a lot of sense ("Married Man" which was initially in Aspects becoming "Music of the Night" - which thankfully was done. When I saw the video of Brightman singing that on Johnny Carson I think I winced at how awful the lyrics were and how out of place that would've been) And Magnificent Donkey - that's helpful too remembering the With One Look being initially for "The Little Mermaid" Unfortunately though, its not sounding like its working in its current form of Sarah as Norma You can add me to said rabid list ;-)
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Post by max on Jun 6, 2024 9:31:14 GMT
I agree chernjam we need more obscure ALW tidbits on this board..!
I don't believe Sunset Boulevard's Norma Desmond was written with Sarah Brightman in mind, but what I can believe is that the ideas back in the 80's he wrote in that creative period were for her.
ALW writes a lot of music. And he never really lets great little bits go unused, so it gets recycled. And there's no shame in that... that's a big part of the creative process for any songwriter.
(Some small trivia about that Evita example specifically; the modern orchestrations seem to be trying to step away from how blantant this recycling is in Buenos Aires, instead replacing that section that borrows this melody with a new dance break. It does however, mean that when this melody later appears in the Waltz, it makes no thematic sense. Oops!)
Hi blamerobots - I hope you don' t mind that I've copied the latter section of your post here to continue your deep dive over in the 'Performers and Creatives' section on 'Andrew Lloyd Webber'. You got me thinking, but I think I'd have taken this thread too far off track. I'd be interested in your thoughts, and those from other "rabids" ( chernjam BVM magnificentdonkey ) and All.
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Post by blamerobots on Jun 6, 2024 10:54:57 GMT
I agree chernjam we need more obscure ALW tidbits on this board..!
I don't believe Sunset Boulevard's Norma Desmond was written with Sarah Brightman in mind, but what I can believe is that the ideas back in the 80's he wrote in that creative period were for her.
ALW writes a lot of music. And he never really lets great little bits go unused, so it gets recycled. And there's no shame in that... that's a big part of the creative process for any songwriter.
(Some small trivia about that Evita example specifically; the modern orchestrations seem to be trying to step away from how blantant this recycling is in Buenos Aires, instead replacing that section that borrows this melody with a new dance break. It does however, mean that when this melody later appears in the Waltz, it makes no thematic sense. Oops!)
Hi blamerobots - I hope you don' t mind that I've copied the latter section of your post here to continue your deep dive over in the 'Performers and Creatives' section on 'Andrew Lloyd Webber'. You got me thinking, but I think I'd have taken this thread too far off track. I'd be interested in your thoughts, and those from other "rabids" ( chernjam BVM magnificentdonkey ) and All. Thanks!! Sorry I get very off track often lol
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Post by rosscoe on Jun 12, 2024 13:49:54 GMT
Absolute flop here in Melbourne , last week of the season removed from sale. Certain performances cancelled. If this was anywhere else London New York a closing notice would have gone up. They can’t give tickets away, Opera Australia subscribers returning tickets in record number.
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Post by blamerobots on Jun 12, 2024 14:22:27 GMT
Absolute flop here in Melbourne , last week of the season removed from sale. Certain performances cancelled. If this was anywhere else London New York a closing notice would have gone up. They can’t give tickets away, Opera Australia subscribers returning tickets in record number.
Feel sorry for the cast and crew.
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Post by singingbird on Jun 12, 2024 14:51:32 GMT
Absolute flop here in Melbourne , last week of the season removed from sale. Certain performances cancelled. If this was anywhere else London New York a closing notice would have gone up. They can’t give tickets away, Opera Australia subscribers returning tickets in record number. So sad - I feel bad for all those involved. And an interesting contrast with the Jamie Lloyd production. I wonder if it tells us something about how audiences relate to the musicals of the eighties and nineties now - that, whilst they can still find an audience, they need a fresh approach to not feel dated? They don't feel dated to me, but it's like shows from the fifties being staged in their original form in the nineties, which probably would have felt dated to me, no matter how good I felt the script/score was.
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Post by alwfan on Jun 12, 2024 16:21:51 GMT
Absolute flop here in Melbourne , last week of the season removed from sale. Certain performances cancelled. If this was anywhere else London New York a closing notice would have gone up. They can’t give tickets away, Opera Australia subscribers returning tickets in record number. Sad to hear this. Do you know if the Tuesday and Wednesday performances by Silvie are selling better? if there is a way to see online? How has Sarah's attendance been? I scan social media daily and she seems to have featured in all the bows, but can't always be sure what the day is.
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Post by alwfan on Jun 12, 2024 16:52:20 GMT
Found an article that confirms what rosscoe said. www.theage.com.au/culture/theatre/lavish-opera-australia-production-of-sunset-boulevard-cuts-back-shows-20240612-p5jl4k.htmlWas able to copy the text before the pay-wall. Less than two weeks since it opened, Opera Australia has scaled back the number of shows being performed for its Melbourne production of Sunset Boulevard. The cast has been told Tuesday performances of the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical will be cancelled from next week. Sources involved in the production, not authorised to speak publicly, confirmed the move to The Age. And Brightman, who both inspired and originated the role of Christine Daae in The Phantom of the Opera, is sharing the role of Desmond with Australian performer Silvie Paladino, who until now has been performing in Tuesday evening and Wednesday matinee shows. Originally, the Opera Australia production was being staged eight times a week over six days. Ticket prices for the Melbourne season range from $69 to $249. As of Wednesday morning, all Tuesday performances from June 18 onwards in Melbourne had been marked as unavailable on the production’s ticketing website. Similarly, all Sunday shows starting from July 1, as well as the entire final week of Sunset Boulevard are unable to be booked. It is unclear at this stage whether this is due to further cancellations. In a statement, Opera Australia confirmed shows had been cancelled. A spokesperson said: “The performance schedule for Sunset Boulevard’s Melbourne season is being adjusted to reflect the current market conditions.” All ticket holders for the affected performances will be contacted.
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Post by anthony40 on Jun 12, 2024 20:05:16 GMT
That is extremely disappointing for everyone involved!
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Post by chernjam on Jun 13, 2024 3:19:32 GMT
Absolute flop here in Melbourne , last week of the season removed from sale. Certain performances cancelled. If this was anywhere else London New York a closing notice would have gone up. They can’t give tickets away, Opera Australia subscribers returning tickets in record number. So sad - I feel bad for all those involved. And an interesting contrast with the Jamie Lloyd production. I wonder if it tells us something about how audiences relate to the musicals of the eighties and nineties now - that, whilst they can still find an audience, they need a fresh approach to not feel dated? They don't feel dated to me, but it's like shows from the fifties being staged in their original form in the nineties, which probably would have felt dated to me, no matter how good I felt the script/score was. singingbird - this has been my suspicion since 2017 with the Broadway "revival" being the semi-staged concert from ENO with Glenn Close. I loved it and saw it 5 times during its limited run. But the reality was that while it sold well it wasn't a sell-out by any stretch of the imagination. It cleared the 90% attendance and was consistently grossing more than a million dollars a week with a 7 performance schedule. But that was with Glenn Close and a symphony orchestra. I felt then and there that as much as I love the score and the piece itself, it's dated to modern audiences. The concept of "silent films" is ancient history to most audiences. With that as the reality, it's hard for people to connect from the outset with the story. So the Broadway audience was filled with fans of the original production, those who heard about Glenn's performance and got to see a master-class performance by a then 70 year old playing 7 times a week. Sarah Brightman the minute I saw the ads back in October I wasn't remotely interested in seeing because I never cared for her voice or acting. And the fact that the promo videos of this production featured Joe singing the title song and "Too Much in Love to Care" rather than the two major hit songs kind of fed into the narrative that she wasn't right for the part. I mean even her filmed sequence saying "I am the big... its the pictures that got small" felt awkward to me. Nicole Scherzinger/Jamie Lloyd production got me genuinely excited and seemingly countless others on both sides of the atlantic in taking the score and story and making it more an indictment on people's fascination with being "seen" which can work in a social-media obsessed world. And making it more raw, biting and having a cast that can sing the hell out of it, makes sense why people would want to go see this.
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Post by rosscoe on Jun 13, 2024 3:21:07 GMT
Absolute flop here in Melbourne , last week of the season removed from sale. Certain performances cancelled. If this was anywhere else London New York a closing notice would have gone up. They can’t give tickets away, Opera Australia subscribers returning tickets in record number. So sad - I feel bad for all those involved. And an interesting contrast with the Jamie Lloyd production. I wonder if it tells us something about how audiences relate to the musicals of the eighties and nineties now - that, whilst they can still find an audience, they need a fresh approach to not feel dated? They don't feel dated to me, but it's like shows from the fifties being staged in their original form in the nineties, which probably would have felt dated to me, no matter how good I felt the script/score was. Phantom and Miss Saigon huge hits last year. Sadly Sarah Brightman is the common factor in this. How they actually cast her is beyond me. I’m guessing they did sight song unseen and it wasn’t till rehearsals started that they knew. The correct thing for her to do is remove herself from the production.
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Post by viserys on Jun 13, 2024 5:51:52 GMT
Absolute flop here in Melbourne , last week of the season removed from sale. Certain performances cancelled. If this was anywhere else London New York a closing notice would have gone up. They can’t give tickets away, Opera Australia subscribers returning tickets in record number. So sad - I feel bad for all those involved. And an interesting contrast with the Jamie Lloyd production. I wonder if it tells us something about how audiences relate to the musicals of the eighties and nineties now - that, whilst they can still find an audience, they need a fresh approach to not feel dated? They don't feel dated to me, but it's like shows from the fifties being staged in their original form in the nineties, which probably would have felt dated to me, no matter how good I felt the script/score was. I don't think so. Tickets for the Starlight Express revival flew out of the door the moment they started selling them, a long time before anyone knew anything about potential updates. Sunset Boulevard keeps being revived and doing decent business (more recently in Washington for example with Stephanie J. Block and Derek Klena, although that was a very limited run, tbf). If this production had cast a big Aussie name in the right age bracket as Norma, I'm sure tickets would have sold. I'm a big ALW fan myself (even if perhaps not quite as obsessive as some here ) but from the 80s onwards when I first got interested in musicals I could never warm to Sarah Brightman. There had always been something artificial to her and her development with more and more esoteric shows while she herself turned into a botoxed wax work seemed to confirm that. When this was announced, i thought immediately just how wrong she was and how I had zero interest in seeing her. * The movie industry has the expression "box office poison" for certain stars who turn people off from buying tickets - this seems to have been one such case in the musical theatre world. Given the right person at the right time delivering an amazing performance, Sunset Blvd can and will be a huge success - look no further than Nicole Scherzinger and the way Jamie Lloyd catered perfectly to her persona and abilities. * edited to add: I'm nowhere near Australia, so it was never even a possibility, but even if this had been in my town, I wouldn't have cared.
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Post by danb on Jun 13, 2024 6:36:18 GMT
As we’ve seen in London in the past few years, ALW revivals are not a sure thing. There needs to be an extra layer of ‘something’ to keep people interested. Be that Lloyd staging it like Lloyd, only with added Pussycat Doll…Repurposing a difficult theatre space to turn it into a Bochum-lite home for Starlight-lite…Silver-Superstar wooo! The last ‘good’ purely staged ALW before these for me, was the ‘School of Rock’ tour which isn’t what I’d call traditional Lloyd Webber. Just putting a star in it (Balls Aspects) won’t do it, and this is clearly the case in Melbourne. Sunset was approaching fatigue over here after an undersold tour and several concert versions, and this radical reinvention has undoubtedly re-energised ALW’s brand.
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Post by viserys on Jun 13, 2024 7:12:53 GMT
There needs to be an extra layer of ‘something’ to keep people interested. The Ballroom version of Cats in New York has already extended its run by two weeks, so demand for something new and fresh is certainly there!
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