1,245 posts
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Post by joem on May 24, 2024 22:33:49 GMT
I assume everyone who wants to see it from here already has but just in case there may be spoilers ahead.
The problem I have with Jez Butterworth plays is that I'm always hoping for another "Jerusalem" and ending up with "Not Quite Jerusalem". This is in many ways a solid play; well written, beautifully staged and excellently acted, but it is overlong and at times the story isn't quite interesting enough to match the writing. The cast is far too big, with judicious cutting/doubling you could lose at least four actors and maybe bring the tickets down by ten quid!
So I see the character of Veronica, the matriarch, here and think "Ah! Here's our new Johnny 'Rooster' Byron". Charismatic, lippy, domineering, but tragically flawed. Except the play then drifts away from her and she spends the third act offstage. So who is/are the protagonists? The girls then. Except they are totally dominated by mum in the first act and need perhaps a little bit more finessing to delineate their differences.
My main grouse though is the last act which is to me largely unnecessary, very padded, and only there to justify a three-act structure. Essentially after the drama of Joan's return we have rather too much of Joan's travails and a totally redundant Macguffin in the baby she brings in tow. What's its purpose? To show us Joan's callousness/descent? We already know this. To tie this to the visit to see/not see her dying mum is simply a distraction. Finish the play when Jill is pleading with Joan to see her mum and you end with drama and ambiguity, instead we carry on until we end with some very pretty singing (both the adult and young actresses did a great job in that department) which tells us the play is ended but makes it rather cosier than we had a right to expect.
If some of this sounds petty or even harsh it's because Butterworth set such a high standard, for me, with "Jerusalem" that I am always holding up a glass to it when comparing it to his other works. It's certainly an event when he writes a new play and this is well worth going to - even with the steep prices involved. I just wish he'd pruned it a little more, perhaps given it a trial run outside London for fine tuning.
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1,276 posts
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Post by theatrefan77 on May 27, 2024 0:32:30 GMT
Loved this and will see it again on Saturday. Maybe a bit long but the performances are all excellent.
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Post by jr on May 27, 2024 19:31:21 GMT
Left after the first act. All exposition, no drama. I haven't been that bored in ages.
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184 posts
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Post by sweets7 on May 28, 2024 8:32:12 GMT
Saw it yesterday and found it interesting. I found Gillian the most interesting character. Absolutely truthful and really quite resilient despite everything. However, an obvious codependent. Ruby was avoidant. Gloria almost too addicted to the negative energy, and the mother and Joan total fantasists. There was a lot there that could have been mined. Did they even have a father or did they all have different ones. There only seemed to be a year between each, or had he run off. Was Joan on drugs in the USA? How did she survive at 15? Was the mother really an alcoholic who ran in her knickers in the street . Who was the most accurate of those sisters. Gloria was supremely negative or was Gillian who was more measured. Ruby and Joan didn’t seem to have any opinions.
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Post by bigredapple on Jun 4, 2024 16:15:25 GMT
Transferring to Broadway
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3,528 posts
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Post by Rory on Jun 4, 2024 17:03:33 GMT
That was fast. Hopefully Sonia Friedman can transfer Stereophonic over here just as quickly.
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7,050 posts
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Post by Jon on Jun 4, 2024 17:15:34 GMT
Given it hasn't sold that well in the West End, the Broadway production will need a few names to make the run a success.
Stereophonic is likely to transfer but I suspect they're waiting for the Tonys before they do. I'm not sure how big the set is though so unsure what WE theatre would be suitable.
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Post by dr on Jun 4, 2024 17:32:07 GMT
I'd imagine Stereophonic would go to the Harold Pinter - a kind of swap! It's Sonia Friedman's go-to playhouse in the West End (Hills of California, Lyonesse, Dr Semmelweis, The Human Voice, and so on...) Plus, its capacity (796) is almost exactly the same as Stereophonic's current Broadway capacity (802 at the Golden.)
Excited to hear that The Hills of California will be on Broadway - I thought it was a truly wonderful, special show, even if it has been ignored by most over here. I can't see a world in which Laura Donnelly doesn't transfer with it - the others, I don't know.
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5,794 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 4, 2024 22:17:41 GMT
I suspect this will tank on Broadway. Cant quite believe they are taking it over
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7,050 posts
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Post by Jon on Jun 4, 2024 22:20:13 GMT
I suspect this will tank on Broadway. Cant quite believe they are taking it over Wonder if it's a pride thing for Jez Butterworth and Sonia Friedman or if the transfer was booked ages ago, it's not going anywhere near as successful as The Ferryman or The River.
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1,217 posts
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Post by nash16 on Jun 4, 2024 22:44:12 GMT
3hrs of good acting, but theatrical boredom. Good luck, America.
As soon as his wife came on with an American accent at the end it felt obvious it was headed to Broadway ultimately.
It just feels like a vanity showcase for the Butterworth-Donnelly clan.
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Post by sph on Jun 4, 2024 23:53:30 GMT
The setting is quite specifically "British" in a way that Americans don't normally get to see, so that's a tough one to put across, but I think the Gypsy-like storyline of the stage mother and singing daughters will go down pretty well.
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Post by jr on Jun 6, 2024 12:08:28 GMT
It'd be interesting to see reviews and how well it sells in NY. Despite the good response here I found it unbelievably boring. I didn't like Jerusalem either but at least it was livelier.
I always think there is a lot of chauvinism in London regarding UK plays/musicals. Still can't believe Standing won the Olivier over The band's visit 🙄
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Post by Fleance on Jun 6, 2024 12:12:34 GMT
There is a sense that too many shows are opening in New York this season, and there just aren't the audiences to support them. There are many closings.
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Post by aspieandy on Jun 6, 2024 12:33:50 GMT
I'm not sure too many shows are selling out in the West End, either. Good deals almost everywhere.
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621 posts
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Post by andrew on Jun 6, 2024 13:46:03 GMT
I'm not sure too many shows are selling out in the West End, either. Good deals almost everywhere. This. Sustaining a healthy 5-month run in a West End theatre, with a new play and no names (other than the writer and director) is pretty impressive still.
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Post by dr on Jun 6, 2024 13:57:59 GMT
Given the new design style they've used for the Broadway website (the third for this show so far), I wonder if Sonia Friedman is attempting to draw on the success of Stereophonic. There's some similarities - 3 hour play, use of music, retro setting. And if that show has found success, both with audiences and (not to be too presumptuous) awards... perhaps they can carve an audience for The Hills of California too?
Plus, as it did on the West End, it'll surely sell a decent amount on the names of Butterworth and Mendes, post-Lehman and Ferryman. The Broadhurst isn't significantly bigger than the Harold Pinter - 1,156 seats vs 796.
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Post by aspieandy on Jun 6, 2024 14:08:41 GMT
.. also, a surprising level of negativity on here for a work averaging 4.1* from 99 votes.
"The Broadhurst isn't significantly bigger than the Harold Pinter" - some people might suggest over 40% more capacity probably is.
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747 posts
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 8, 2024 19:04:41 GMT
I enjoyed this. How lovely to have a play about women, where men just play incidental characters who talk about the women or move the plot on!!!!! I thought the story was good and the acting excellent and I was moved by the ending. I liked that it wasn’t neat and tidy, as life rarely is. Also an honour to share our dress circle row d with Celia Imrie and friends. Fabulous day out. D15 dress circle good value.
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Post by viscountviktor on Jun 8, 2024 23:07:07 GMT
During the show I was thinking about how the plot could have gone in different directions... When Ruby's husband said he had seen someone at then end of the pier (which I assume is Joan), the twist could've been that Joan never made it to America and had been living out of sight in Blackpool the whole time, like the mad woman in the attic in Jane Eyre.
Another one was when Gloria goes up to visit mother whilst Joan and Gillian chat in the kitchen - I was convinced Gillian was going to smother and kill the mother so that Joan could never see her.
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39 posts
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Post by viscountviktor on Jun 8, 2024 23:32:54 GMT
Need to also say I hated the setup of the Harold Pinter and the staff weren't good. Curtains not doors separating the bars from the seats, and staff audibly chatting away in the bars. Really poor.
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Post by sph on Jun 9, 2024 21:43:09 GMT
During the show I was thinking about how the plot could have gone in different directions... When Ruby's husband said he had seen someone at then end of the pier (which I assume is Joan), the twist could've been that Joan never made it to America and had been living out of sight in Blackpool the whole time, like the mad woman in the attic in Jane Eyre. Another one was when Gloria goes up to visit mother whilst Joan and Gillian chat in the kitchen - I was convinced Gillian was going to smother and kill the mother so that Joan could never see her. The idea of Joan leaving home but never making it to America actually would have worked a bit better I think. It did strike me as a bit jarring that this girl from a run down hotel in Blackpool was suddenly living it up in 60s Hollywood before her career burned out. Like two massively different cultures colliding in act 3.
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184 posts
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Post by sweets7 on Jun 10, 2024 7:12:25 GMT
She was slept with that guy. Who had her make one album has payment I guess. Could have continued sleeping with him. She didn’t have a career in America. She’d been flitting about as far as I could tell.
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835 posts
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Post by duncan on Jun 12, 2024 20:57:38 GMT
Jez Butterworth and Sam Mendes reunite to give us the world of 1956/76 in a Blackpool guest house.
It starts as three sisters arguing over what to do next and how they have been living in the shadow of their mothers ambition. Joan has escaped to America and having had some success, Jill has remained in the home looking after her mother, Gloria has become a bitter middle aged woman and Ruby is living her boring life in Rochdale. All 4 have been scarred by Veronica - the stage mother from hell.
Over the course of the first two acts we get scenes in 1976 as the daughters combine and then the second half of the two acts takes us back to 1956 and the girls chance to impress an American manager who is looking for an act for the London Palladium.
If you've ever seen All My Sons then this is essentially that but with a 1950 female singing troupe as the Macguffin instead of Plane parts. We start off thinking we know what has happened but the 1956 scenes reveal the truth as the onion like layers of the plot are peeled back to reveal that what we think happened didn't actually happen the way that way- Joan didn't split the act, the mother offered herself and then let her daughter (at 15) have sexual relations with the manager and wracked with guilt has become a shambling alcoholic who is dying offstage (only seen in the flashbacks). My reading was of the mother slumping into alcohol abuse because she knows she created a monster in Joan and not because of what she allowed to happen to her.
Gloria has become embittered because she overheard it all (the mother and manager coming to a decision, Joan willingly taking the chance to seduce an older man so she can escape her back street life) and was cast adrift by the actions. Jill loves looking after her mother and is a 32 year old virgin.
Gloria is fuming at Joan not being there as the mother is close to death, Jill and Ruby are sure that Joan will arrive.
So far so setup and then we get the third act.
In the end Joan arrives and the truth will out. And here we have Laura Donnelly (playing the mother in the flashbacks) giving us her dreadful American accent as the prodigal returns but bizarrely it fits into the character. Joan is nothing but a narcissistic loser who moves from one job to the next and from one man to the next. Her career fizzled out long ago and the dreams her two sisters had about her life and career are shown to be a sham. Joan got what she wanted in 1956 - she moved out of Blackpool and didn't care who she stomped on or slept with to do it.
Things come to a head as Jill and Joan collide over the decision Joan makes not to see the mother before she dies.
Helena Wilson knocks it out of the park as Jill - happy to be a carer and happy to have the memory of childhood performing. The mousy forgotten one that hasn't managed to escape to Rochdale or California but who is still happy with her lot. Nicola Turner as the young Jill in the 1956 flashbacks also looks uncannily like her. Its just a shame that we've got a couple of minor characters too many as the younger versions of the girls could do with some more fleshing out to highlight the traits that lead them to the '76 versions. Donnelly is saddled with the fake accent from hell although I'm saying its deliberate in an attempt to show us that Joan for all her fancy living claims is still acting the part to get what she wants.
We discover Ruby is actually happy in her life.
and in the end the person who comes out a winner in it all is Jill, Joan has come back to dump her new baby on the family so she can tour with the Stones (or some such). It'll only be for a month or two but everyone knows that Joan isn't ever coming back so Jill in one night loses her mother but gains a child. Giving her someone else to care for going forward - its that tired old trope you see in the likes of Eastenders or Corrie all the time. Someone must die the same day a baby is born.
Joan walks out as they coo over the baby. She's shallow, facile, horrible, a user. The sisters who idolised her are happy to let her go - she has served her purpose by giving them a new one.
Its certainly an interesting choice from where we've started at - the winner is the one that the rest see as a loser and the one that the other sisters had stomped all over their ambitions turns out to be the biggest loser of them all. A horrible person willing to sacrifice her relationship with her own child for a probably non-existent gig.
Anyway its all about times changing and how people adapt - Veronica can't see that her ambitions are not what all the girls want and that the act she is getting them to do is years out of date, she can't adapt and so must die so that her daughters can finally come to terms with their past and move on. Joan has adapted before the play starts, she is the rebel with a cause, but over time can't adapt in a different way to changing times - 20 years later she's still acting as the rebellious teenager and wholly unable to see how she is now as out of step with 1976 as her mother was with 1956.
Sam Mendes is relying on the stage revolving to symbolise where we are both geographically and time wise. And I also think he could have tightened this up both plot and cast wise. The plotting sees a couple of children appear for essentially a scene and a half and then vanish from the story -they are there to tell us that Gloria doesn't obey the rules but aside from that they offer nothing storywise and could easily be kept off stage for the entire runtime (it hit me later that the daughter was clearly there to be an understudy for the 1956 girls). Then before the end we have Shaun Dooley as Bill (Mr Gloria) tell us about the mysterious women he's just met on the North Pier. Now it seemed clear that its supposed to be Joan and there will be a big reveal any minute now......but it never comes, its just a rambling story about a woman on the pier and I was left scratching my head.
You could put that down to Butterworth seemingly being destined to write something that again runs for 3 hours - as the layers of the onion are peeled off and the mysteries etc are solved its very engaging and well put together but its overstaffed on stage. There is a lot going on between 1956 and 1976 that we never get to see but which is relayed in such a fashion to make us fill in the blanks in our own minds. Once we find out what Veronica has done in Act 2 it becomes clear why the guest house and herself have become rundown over the last two decades.
Personally I found Jerusalem to be a tad boring and The Ferryman to be a masterpiece and this falls somewhere in the middle. The three hours flew by but it needs an outsider to take a look at the material and excise the flab.
I'm not sure how much the New York crowd will embrace a 3 hour play based in a rundown Blackpool guest house though.
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Post by seanathan on Jun 16, 2024 14:46:00 GMT
I saw this back in April on a pretty good theatre roulette ticket (Row D stalls), with no idea who Jez Butterworth was. Enjoyed the play a lot more than I expected - the synopsis really didn't make it sound like my cup of tea, but the acting was brilliant, singing equally so, and I had a good time. I thought the set was great, fun use of height, especially with the end of act 2.
Like others, I did find it a bit on the long side. I'm not sure if anyone else has had issues here, but in Row D, the sheer quantity of herbal cigarette smoke had me nauseous by the time bows came around.
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