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Post by jennifer on Apr 20, 2023 10:23:53 GMT
Safer to keep it as a museum piece and raise a discussion, than turning it into a ‘tripping over itself mess of ‘right on’. They are people acting; ‘pretending to be trains’. As long as the bad behaviour is ‘punished’ and made a point of, it is definitely preferable to a ghastly mess.
Totally agree with this. And I'm not sure that innuendo in itself is a problem anyway. I mean, Cats has an orgy scene and people still take their children to see that!
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Post by viserys on Apr 20, 2023 10:47:22 GMT
And I'm not sure that innuendo in itself is a problem anyway I can already see the conniptions when lines like "Come and bite my burgers - I'm hot and cheap and quick" are left like that. I personally don't mind, it's funny how I'm super sensitive to sexism in many shows, but Starlight has never struck me as such, since the males aren't treated any better - what about Dinah complaining about Electra "I don't think he can whistle at me, he lacks the apparatus" It's just all-around goofy.
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Post by alece10 on Apr 20, 2023 10:54:18 GMT
Safer to keep it as a museum piece and raise a discussion, than turning it into a ‘tripping over itself mess of ‘right on’. They are people acting; ‘pretending to be trains’. As long as the bad behaviour is ‘punished’ and made a point of, it is definitely preferable to a ghastly mess.
Totally agree with this. And I'm not sure that innuendo in itself is a problem anyway. I mean, Cats has an orgy scene and people still take their children to see that!
Orgy scene? I don't remember that but I do remember Paul Nicholas sitting in my lap during the original production.
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Post by viserys on Apr 20, 2023 11:13:38 GMT
The whole Jellicle Ball!
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Post by ceebee on Apr 20, 2023 17:15:02 GMT
Cats, trains and orgies. Who saw that coming on this thread?
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Post by danb on Apr 20, 2023 18:21:15 GMT
Standard Thursday in our house.
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Post by jennifer on Apr 22, 2023 14:19:27 GMT
Yes, exactly, and specifically the bit in the middle of the Jellicle Ball where everything slows right down before the music kicks off again.
Anyway, back to Starlight Express, one minor moment I wish they would bring back is when everyone tells Control to "Shut it" at the end. (Does this need spoilers for a 40 year old story?) I genuinely think it's an important turning point when the rest of the characters realise that Rusty can utterly disobey Control's instructions and make up his own rules by turning up for the final race that he's been disqualified from. The message that you can and should take control of your own life and not just play the role you're being railroaded into still has a very modern resonance, I think.
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Post by d'James on Apr 22, 2023 15:44:49 GMT
Yes, exactly, and specifically the bit in the middle of the Jellicle Ball where everything slows right down before the music kicks off again.
Anyway, back to Starlight Express, one minor moment I wish they would bring back is when everyone tells Control to "Shut it" at the end. (Does this need spoilers for a 40 year old story?) I genuinely think it's an important turning point when the rest of the characters realise that Rusty can utterly disobey Control's instructions and make up his own rules by turning up for the final race that he's been disqualified from. The message that you can and should take control of your own life and not just play the role you're being railroaded into still has a very modern resonance, I think.
I absolutely agree. Also, with some of the changes they’ve made, I really think they should change Dinah and Greaseball’s ending: Dinah: Greaseball you’re hurt! GB: No, Dinah, please don’t cry….. I don’t know how to tell it. Dinah: Come on Greaseball, you can spell it. GB: OK, Dinah, I’m S-O-R-R-Y! Dinah: Go away you bast- Control: THIS IS CONTROL! …
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Apr 22, 2023 20:51:43 GMT
I'd love it to be the original, as unlikely as that is. Bring back CB as the real villain of the show, along with 'There's Me' I think people might have something to say about 'He Whistled At Me' and dodgy lyrics like 'You gotta make it so that he can't guess, when you are saying no, but meaning yes'
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Post by BVM on Apr 22, 2023 21:05:01 GMT
Yes, exactly, and specifically the bit in the middle of the Jellicle Ball where everything slows right down before the music kicks off again.
Anyway, back to Starlight Express, one minor moment I wish they would bring back is when everyone tells Control to "Shut it" at the end. (Does this need spoilers for a 40 year old story?) I genuinely think it's an important turning point when the rest of the characters realise that Rusty can utterly disobey Control's instructions and make up his own rules by turning up for the final race that he's been disqualified from. The message that you can and should take control of your own life and not just play the role you're being railroaded into still has a very modern resonance, I think.
So that moment IS back in the current (30th anniversary) Bochum version. There are a lot of positives in there. I’ll compile a list at some point :-)
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Post by d'James on Apr 22, 2023 21:35:09 GMT
I'd love it to be the original, as unlikely as that is. Bring back CB as the real villain of the show, along with 'There's Me' I think people might have something to say about 'He Whistled At Me' and dodgy lyrics like 'You gotta make it so that he can't guess, when you are saying no, but meaning yes' Didn’t they change that on the 2012 tour?
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Apr 22, 2023 23:09:24 GMT
I'd love it to be the original, as unlikely as that is. Bring back CB as the real villain of the show, along with 'There's Me' I think people might have something to say about 'He Whistled At Me' and dodgy lyrics like 'You gotta make it so that he can't guess, when you are saying no, but meaning yes' Didn’t they change that on the 2012 tour? They could well have. I was only reminded of it today when I was listening to bits of it.
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Post by d'James on Apr 22, 2023 23:13:18 GMT
Didn’t they change that on the 2012 tour? They could well have. I was only reminded of it today when I was listening to bits of it. I just meant about the (Girl(‘)s) Rolling Stock (Reprise) lyrics.
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Post by Jon on Apr 22, 2023 23:16:21 GMT
I would pay to see the Peter Griffin version of Starlight Express.
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Post by d'James on Apr 23, 2023 0:09:02 GMT
I would pay to see the Peter Griffin version of Starlight Express. I would pay good money not to.
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Post by max on Apr 23, 2023 9:49:56 GMT
It twists my brain that 'Next Time You Fall In Love' is 'The Ballad Of Billy McCaw' from "Cats" on a different time signature shifting from 6/8 to 4/4 for the Starlight version. Crazily creative recycling. Only the line "back then was when we saw the Starlight" is different.
Yet the same musical brain would drop (from the title song) the musical motif "of the midnight train, here again, can't explain that midnight train, that midnight train" which is the most authentically Smokey Robinson style bit - the kind of song it's trying to be. That's the quality bit right there!
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Post by richey on Apr 23, 2023 10:48:07 GMT
On a sidenote, I went to a concert by the Hallè orchestra last week, performimg songs from Rock Musicals. It included an amazing performance of Starlight Express with David Thaxton. To hear it performed with a full orchestra was brilliant!
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Post by max on Apr 23, 2023 10:57:29 GMT
Does the show have to be on roller skates, do you think? Does all of it? Despite some thrill in the skating, if anything the skates make more gentle moments look very tentative as characters move around gingerly like they're treading on egg shells. Much more tentative and less dynamic than characters on foot. Could they 'boot up' for when heading for the races. I think it needs a variation on the concept. The folks skateboarding down at the South Bank might be an inspiration.
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Post by d'James on Apr 23, 2023 15:58:31 GMT
Does the show have to be on roller skates, do you think? Does all of it? Despite some thrill in the skating, if anything the skates make more gentle moments look very tentative as characters move around gingerly like they're treading on egg shells. Much more tentative and less dynamic than characters on foot. Could they 'boot up' for when heading for the races. I think it needs a variation on the concept. The folks skateboarding down at the South Bank might be an inspiration. I think it would lose something not being on roller skates. Having said that, the ‘workshop’ at The Other Palace was OK, but I guess that was because we knew it was a one-off. I don’t know what you mean about ‘treading on eggshells’ though. The skating and movement looks second nature to the performers I’ve seen in Germany.
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Post by theatrenerd on Apr 23, 2023 16:18:28 GMT
I would pay to see the Peter Griffin version of Starlight Express. I hear it went better than his version of Cats...
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Post by max on Apr 23, 2023 17:11:53 GMT
Does the show have to be on roller skates, do you think? Does all of it? Despite some thrill in the skating, if anything the skates make more gentle moments look very tentative as characters move around gingerly like they're treading on egg shells. Much more tentative and less dynamic than characters on foot. Could they 'boot up' for when heading for the races. I think it needs a variation on the concept. The folks skateboarding down at the South Bank might be an inspiration. I think it would lose something not being on roller skates. Having said that, the ‘workshop’ at The Other Palace was OK, but I guess that was because we knew it was a one-off. I don’t know what you mean about ‘treading on eggshells’ though. The skating and movement looks second nature to the performers I’ve seen in Germany. I just mean that small movements - people in linking dialogue/conversation look a bit tentative and careful which makes it feel less physical - when the whole aim is how excitingly physical it is. That certainly takes off when they're being dynamic or in the races. I may be looking at old youtube videos though. I saw the original London cast and haven't seen it live since. As a variation I quite like the aesthetic when ice skaters come off the ice and wait for their marks - from gliding brilliantly, to stomping with skate guards on. It enhances the sense of latent energy that only takes off when tooled and fuelled. It's never been a favourite of mine but looking back I do rate: the title song, No Comeback, AC/DC, Wide Style Hight Style, Right Place Right Time, Female Rolling Stock Reprise; then from the first revision Engine Of Love (original 1970s version even more), Make Up My Heart, and Next Time You Fall In Love. That's a lot! There aren't many ALW musicals in recent years that have 8 or 9 such distinct songs. Now - could he get his friend Nile Rodgers to tell him what to keep and to rearrange it? All those songs and their many many versions need someone who really knows music (and particularly music of Black origin) to stop ALW jumping the wrong way. His own choosing ears are shot.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Apr 23, 2023 22:51:08 GMT
Crazy is catchy too. The chorus of that sometimes just pops into my head.
There was an interview recently where he said he used to wait for a melody to come to him three times before he'd write it down, but now he writes them down straight away in case he can't remember them later. So I do wonder if he isn't quite as picky as he was years ago.
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Post by anthony40 on Apr 24, 2023 12:29:31 GMT
Roller skates is the gimmick, and the make-up/costumes. Don't forget that each person is supposed to be a train or a train carriage.
Trains don't walk- they roll or glide!
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Post by og on Apr 24, 2023 13:15:07 GMT
Roller skates is the gimmick, and the make-up/costumes. Don't forget that each person is supposed to be a train or a train carriage. Trains don't walk- they roll or glide! Ice Skates it is! Piggy back off Disney on ice and can tour the arenas. Here starts even more speculation.
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Post by d'James on Apr 24, 2023 15:47:43 GMT
I think it would lose something not being on roller skates. Having said that, the ‘workshop’ at The Other Palace was OK, but I guess that was because we knew it was a one-off. I don’t know what you mean about ‘treading on eggshells’ though. The skating and movement looks second nature to the performers I’ve seen in Germany. I just mean that small movements - people in linking dialogue/conversation look a bit tentative and careful which makes it feel less physical - when the whole aim is how excitingly physical it is. That certainly takes off when they're being dynamic or in the races. I may be looking at old youtube videos though. I saw the original London cast and haven't seen it live since. As a variation I quite like the aesthetic when ice skaters come off the ice and wait for their marks - from gliding brilliantly, to stomping with skate guards on. It enhances the sense of latent energy that only takes off when tooled and fuelled. It's never been a favourite of mine but looking back I do rate: the title song, No Comeback, AC/DC, Wide Style Hight Style, Right Place Right Time, Female Rolling Stock Reprise; then from the first revision Engine Of Love (original 1970s version even more), Make Up My Heart, and Next Time You Fall In Love. That's a lot! There aren't many ALW musicals in recent years that have 8 or 9 such distinct songs. Now - could he get his friend Nile Rodgers to tell him what to keep and to rearrange it? All those songs and their many many versions need someone who really knows music (and particularly music of Black origin) to stop ALW jumping the wrong way. His own choosing ears are shot. I think over the years, they ironed out things like that. All characters had specific movements of their own. Having said that, I’ve heard that the newest version has cut down on the dancing which is a shame. They have done it on ice before, in America. They mimed, which would spoil it for me.
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Post by PhantomNcl on Apr 24, 2023 18:30:53 GMT
Roller skates is the gimmick, and the make-up/costumes. Don't forget that each person is supposed to be a train or a train carriage. Trains don't walk- they roll or glide! Ice Skates it is! Piggy back off Disney on ice and can tour the arenas. Here starts even more speculation. It's already been done! There was a US 'on ice' production back in 1997, choreographed by Robin Cousins. starlightexpressmusical.fandom.com/wiki/1997_On_Ice/GalleryThere was also a production in 2013 in Tuacahn, USA, which had a hybrid approach of some performers on skates and some on heelies. By all accounts the cast didn't have a great deal of time to learn how to skate the show (I think it was quoted as them having 22 days), so the production had very mixed reviews.
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Post by luvvie23 on Apr 24, 2023 19:48:50 GMT
Wouldn’t it be absolutely incredible if this turned out to be true!
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Post by ceebee on Jun 14, 2023 14:48:26 GMT
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jun 14, 2023 17:19:42 GMT
Imagine if the Troubador became a permanent home for Starlight!
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Post by Jon on Jun 14, 2023 17:22:28 GMT
Imagine if the Troubador became a permanent home for Starlight! I can't imagine it'd be able to sustain an open ended run especially in Wembley.
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