247 posts
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Post by barelyathletic on Apr 19, 2023 15:56:05 GMT
Back to the play. Despite some witty lines it felt underdeveloped and a little self indulgent to me. The issues are mainly discussed not fully dramatised and I found it difficult to sympathise with any of the characters, particularly the lead, David. Not the actor's fault (especially as he was brought in at short notice and off book). But the character is so self obsessed and mopey I just couldn't connect or care less. All the performances were generally okay, although I think Dyllon Burnside was miscast. Physically, although he's toned, he seemed much too slight to ever be believable as a Hollywood superhero. Eloka Ivo looked much more the part, though that may just be me. I appreciate the attempts to be theatrical with the dream/hallucinatory sequences but I thought they just seemed a bit naff and the 'Daddy' sex scene was just a bit cringe. I was never bored but it did just meander on and didn't leave a strong impression. I doubt I'll remember much about it in time.
Having said all that, it sounds like the experience has been pretty negative for Danny Lee Wynter which, as a young writer in a high profile, high pressure showcase, just shouldn't be the situation. Where is the support from the theatre that commissioned him? I hope he comes away from it with some sense of achievement which for most of us, writing and starring in a debut play at one of London's leading new writing venues (and yes the Court still comes under that description), this would be. Let's hope his next play is a much happier experience all round.
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Post by luvvie23 on Apr 19, 2023 23:35:52 GMT
Allegedly, the issues stemmed from Wynter feeling a) the show wasn't ready, b) he wasn't supported in reworking elements of the show into its opening, that is to say the public run beyond previews, and c) that he didn't feel comfortable getting on a stage each night and performing a personal, self-penned work, while he believed others were making decisions in the *intent* that he'd fail. Now, while I can sympathise with Wynter's situation and imagine the stress of having to deliver, in real-time, an artistic offering that you don't think is where it needs to be, night after night, the Court also has commitments to fulfil. Yes, as a venue, in many ways, their raison d'etre is the support of new writers, but I think Wynter's persecution complex (which manifests itself in accusations on social media of gaslighting, manipulation, people setting him up to fail and people not caring if he were dead - on an almost daily basis) isn't warranted in respect to the Court. The Court has been supportive of Wynter prior to this commission, as he as remained in the highly network fold of the Court for years before this, and more directly in the commission of this work itself. No one at the Court wanted this to fail. The Court's rep is hardly squeaky clean anecdotally within industry circles (some of its working practices are known to be sloppy), but this acrimonious split is atypical for them. Do I think splits like this will be a recurring issue for the Court? No. Do I think Wynter's use of social media throughout this situation is ill-advised and that the weaponisation is unfair to a theatre that commissioned his first work? Yes. Is this the first time I've heard something about Wynter that I've not liked? No - the swipes he's made allegedly in industry talk at former costars who have found Stranger Things fame is unpleasant and his alleged obsession with belittling and demeaning people in his wrestling for power is nauseating. Is it the first time I've heard of him terminating a work relationship in this way? Yes. It's staggering. It's not fair on the Court or the rest of the cast, in my opinion. Mental health breaks are necessary and completely valid. Exiting a production allegedly because the venue won't allow a hiatus to right the show as you see fit, and then overshadowing the rest of the run with the messy fallout of your exit isn't, in my opinion. Very good post. |
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Post by teamyali on Apr 20, 2023 3:11:10 GMT
I miss the Dominic Cooke era, when they put on plays you actually wanted to go and see. I agree, regime change will definitely be a good thing here (fingers crossed). Any guesses on who could be the next Artistic Director of the Royal Court? A good number of the notable theatre directors these days have gone freelance, or established their own production companies (the likes of Michael Grandage, Dominic Cooke, Sam Mendes, Jeremy Herrin), or currently serving as ADs or associate ADs in another theatre venue (RuNo, RuGo, Erica Whyman). Any prolific stage actor interested in taking over? Or an emerging writer? |
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1,127 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Apr 20, 2023 11:13:26 GMT
It'll be someone they've tipped the nod to. Could be a writer. Not an emerging one. When Vicky took over they approached her and iirc two other people. One was a famous playwright who turned it down.
Going back to the play. I've never met or spoken to Danny Lee Wynter (for transparency) but the only unique thing about this situation is that he's been so public about it, and it became public in the first place due to him being both writer and performer. You can hide a writer leaving a production but not an actor. It's not the first time by a long shot that a production has resulted in a breach and permanent falling out between the Court and a writer but it doesn't usually become public knowledge. Whether Wynter's decision to make it public is admirable or scorn worthy, stupid or worth it, persecution complex or justified, is entirely a matter of opinion. My bias is generally against the Court (which is not the same as being pro-Wynter, necessarily) but personally I wouldn't make a matter public unless I was willing to make a clear statement of fact.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 20, 2023 16:22:15 GMT
Looking from the outside, it's difficult to not see a guy who's conflating a social media presence with the real world, and that cannot end well.
These are not the same worlds, although I'm sure coming generations will find it more and more difficult.
Because trust has gone, you end up with a Megan and Harry situation whereby everyone who speaks with you feels they need a witness to the exchange. How can the create process survive.
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Post by zephyrus on Apr 21, 2023 14:11:17 GMT
I can't help but feel that there was an inevitability to the way this has all played out. I don't know him personally at all but, like anyone who has followed DLW on social media, or listened to him on podcasts, I have got an impression of him being quite... let's say 'outspoken' and very certain of himself and his talent. I'll be honest, when this play was announced, I fully expected that there would be some drama or other off stage (if not necessarily on stage.)
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Post by kb1985 on Apr 21, 2023 14:54:08 GMT
I can't help but feel that there was an inevitability to the way this has all played out. I don't know him personally at all but, like anyone who has followed DLW on social media, or listened to him on podcasts, I have got an impression of him being quite... let's say 'outspoken' and very certain of himself and his talent. I'll be honest, when this play was announced, I fully expected that there would be some drama or other off stage (if not necessarily on stage.) I suppose my feeling on this matter is there's nothing wrong with being certain of your talent - in this industry, it's almost necessitated if you want your value to be recognised - but entering spaces, where people are commissioning and producing your works to your betterment, with an attitude of unyielding embattlement is just...at the very best, it's not a generous attitude to bring to a creative process which should ultimately be collaborative. This may be Danny Lee Wynter's writing, but I think it's profoundly wrong for a writer to know that he a) carries weight with a socio-politically engaged discourse on social media and can therefore b) weaponise that platform when the various parties cannot resolve what is ultimately a business commitment between groups. The writing is his, but the play is bigger than him and the entire efforts of all have been overshadowed by the way this has played out. DLW's latest pivot on socials is to "This is my play. I will succeed and won't be silenced again" (to paraphrase!)...Frankly, no one except DLW can truly understand what's at play here, but I do think dragging a theatre into the unrest of an emotional experience that *likely* precedes this Black Superhero production and to do so in such a public manner is just wrong. There's a point where we all need time and space to resolve personal issues, but there was indeed an inevitability in the way DLW, in particular, swiftly took this experience and ran to social media with it. And, in part due to NDA clauses we all sign, has been able to do so with abstraction and obfuscation that creates a kind of "breadcrumbing" - no transparent discussion allowed, but thinly veiled hints that the Court wrongs and silences creatives, with no credible avenue for their rebuttal. It's messy. |
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Post by luvvie23 on Apr 21, 2023 20:34:15 GMT
I can't help but feel that there was an inevitability to the way this has all played out. I don't know him personally at all but, like anyone who has followed DLW on social media, or listened to him on podcasts, I have got an impression of him being quite... let's say 'outspoken' and very certain of himself and his talent. I'll be honest, when this play was announced, I fully expected that there would be some drama or other off stage (if not necessarily on stage.) I suppose my feeling on this matter is there's nothing wrong with being certain of your talent - in this industry, it's almost necessitated if you want your value to be recognised - but entering spaces, where people are commissioning and producing your works to your betterment, with an attitude of unyielding embattlement is just...at the very best, it's not a generous attitude to bring to a creative process which should ultimately be collaborative. This may be Danny Lee Wynter's writing, but I think it's profoundly wrong for a writer to know that he a) carries weight with a socio-politically engaged discourse on social media and can therefore b) weaponise that platform when the various parties cannot resolve what is ultimately a business commitment between groups. The writing is his, but the play is bigger than him and the entire efforts of all have been overshadowed by the way this has played out. DLW's latest pivot on socials is to "This is my play. I will succeed and won't be silenced again" (to paraphrase!)...Frankly, no one except DLW can truly understand what's at play here, but I do think dragging a theatre into the unrest of an emotional experience that *likely* precedes this Black Superhero production and to do so in such a public manner is just wrong. There's a point where we all need time and space to resolve personal issues, but there was indeed an inevitability in the way DLW, in particular, swiftly took this experience and ran to social media with it. And, in part due to NDA clauses we all sign, has been able to do so with abstraction and obfuscation that creates a kind of "breadcrumbing" - no transparent discussion allowed, but thinly veiled hints that the Court wrongs and silences creatives, with no credible avenue for their rebuttal. It's messy. I’m pleased that people are starting to make sense of what is a dreadful fall out. Taking to social media has not helped the case at all. |
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1,127 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Apr 21, 2023 21:47:28 GMT
Deciding that the black guy is in the wrong (based on nothing except personal opinion as to how creatives should and should not use social media, and vague rumours about 'being difficult') and the theatre that's known for mistreating writers is in the right, is not "people starting to make sense of things."
Not one person on this forum has actually disclosed any details. It's just people reaffirming each other's biases and opinions, egged on by nebulous hints from people implying insider status. (It's pretty telling that when non-white posters post "I personally work on this show and here's some non-controversial info", even if they have years of posting proven insider casting and production scoops, they're consistently undermined, called liars and bullied. Yet posters, even brand new posters, can post the vaguest and most innuendo-filled posts hinting at insider status that demonise a black actor, and aren't questioned or challenged at all.)
It's also very odd to frame allegations of mistreatment as "dragging a theatre into it." The whole reason theatre and the entertainment industry in general has such a big abuse problem (MeToo, Harvey Weinstein, Spacey, at al but also things like racism) is because of the culture of silence where people are slammed for speaking out. Obviously this is a different situation than Weinstein or Spacey. There's no indication there's any sexual component here and the Court actually has a great reputation in terms of not tolerating any form of sexual abuse or harassment. Of all the criticisms or allegations made about them, I'm not aware of anything sexual. But abuse is abuse.
Remember, Weinstein used a lot of tactics like astroturfing and anonymously leaking stories online painting actresses he'd raped as "difficult" as a deliberate tactic to destroy their credibility and smear their reputations online, as a preventative measure to discourage them from coming forward about the abuse and to ensure that if they did come forward, they wouldn't be believed. I really don't think anyone at the Court is Machiavellian enough to be badmouthing Danny Lee Wynter online under fake names to damage the credibility of his allegations against the Court, but it's still very worrying that people who speak up are so consistently demonised. I don't think Wynter has handled things at all well, but there's a general attitude of "you must silently suffer any abuse because if you ever speak up, ever, you're a whiny attention whore who's not trustworthy" is extremely alarming.
Can we not go five minutes without Meghan bashing? The RF leaked private conversations and damaging lies about Harry and Meghan since day one. Any trust was destroyed by them long before Harry and Meghan said a single word.
Personally I'd feel a lot safer engaging with someone who's willing to state their opinions openly and on the record under their real name (because that means there's transparency and accountability), than someone who refuses to engage publicly but is doing God knows what sneaky underhand stuff covertly or behind the scenes.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 22, 2023 10:45:03 GMT
I’m pleased that people are starting to make sense of what is a dreadful fall out. Taking to social media has not helped the case at all. It just feels so unhelpful; you're talking one-on-one to another party, and then you effectively turn away to the audience and shout 'what about this!'
Is that acting in good faith ..
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Post by luvvie23 on Apr 22, 2023 12:40:02 GMT
I’m pleased that people are starting to make sense of what is a dreadful fall out. Taking to social media has not helped the case at all. It just feels so unhelpful; you're talking one-on-one to another party, and then you effectively turn away to the audience and shout 'what about this!'
Is that acting in good faith ..
I agree with you. There is so much more to this story. Two sides to every story. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 15:27:14 GMT
And sometimes even more than two.
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2,762 posts
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Post by n1david on Sept 9, 2023 11:28:16 GMT
Danny Lee Wynter has tweeted the front page of a script titled "Black Superhero: Episode One" with the caption "1 down, 7 to go" and a tag of Bonafide Films.
So it looks like this will have a future life as a TV show.
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Post by marob on Sept 9, 2023 15:04:22 GMT
Strange. Overlooking whatever happened the behind the scenes, the play flopped really badly. Even with papering there was hardly anyone in the theatre.
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Post by max on Sept 9, 2023 15:26:05 GMT
Danny Lee Wynter has tweeted the front page of a script titled "Black Superhero: Episode One" with the caption "1 down, 7 to go" and a tag of Bonafide Films. So it looks like this will have a future life as a TV show. I think it's better suited to TV. It needed more time for the relationship between the central character and his sister to develop, and for all relationships to breathe, for various pennies to drop, and haunting back stories to come forward. On stage it didn't feel quite big or ground breaking enough, but it would be more of a challenge to where TV has visited so far. |
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Post by theatrelover123 on Sept 9, 2023 16:02:13 GMT
It didn’t have enough that was different or interesting enough to say in a 2 hour play. Should be a boring 7 part TV.
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Post by Fleance on Sept 9, 2023 17:12:18 GMT
The theater was nearly full when I saw the play in March.
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Post by imstillhere on Sept 10, 2023 14:39:56 GMT
Danny Lee Wynter is deluded. This will not end up being adapted for television.
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5,199 posts
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Post by Being Alive on Sept 10, 2023 22:23:52 GMT
And it's one 45 minute TV show at best.
There's no series here, there was barely a play.
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1,260 posts
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Post by theatrelover123 on Sept 11, 2023 6:49:22 GMT
Danny Lee Wynter is deluded. This will not end up being adapted for television. Bad behaviour shouldn’t be rewarded either imo |
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