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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 14:17:09 GMT
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 17, 2019 14:27:26 GMT
Let's give Dave props for one thing - he's clearly at least a *little* self-aware, otherwise he wouldn't be peddling his mid-twentieth-century-esque chauvinism in a thread devoted to unpopular opinions. If only all who shared his viewpoint were as aware that their way of thinking is on the way out... Thanks! I just hope suppression is on the way out. Both ways. So we can start celebrating Grease and The Sound of Music again, where there is room for roles where both sexes make an effort and say unprofitable things and have multiple facets to their character than frantically showing off how one sex does not need the other, or one role's only existence is based on how to support the feminism of the other's story line.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 14:32:01 GMT
Apropos of nothing in particular, Chris Morris (Jam, Brass Eye, Four Lions etc.) has a new film coming out this year.
For some reason I've recently been reminded of this sketch with the wonderful Julia Davis.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 17, 2019 14:38:36 GMT
History has shown that things flew over the heads of whole generations many times in order to find out they were wrong hundreds of years later (basically, newer generations found out). So I guess most of us are a little "thick" or better "blinded by current society", which always seems the best, the greatest and most progressive worldview there has been, because we don't know any better, only to find out that 50 years later everything has changed again.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Feb 17, 2019 14:53:44 GMT
Now Dave25 this is getting silly, we know your position and you are free to express it, now is the time to let us digest and catch up with your greater wisdom. My test is, if at work or a business meeting you meet a man and woman you don’t know representing their business, you and your colleagues don’t immediately assume the man is the senior partner, the sadness is that most if not all will assume it is the man and generally are right.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 15:03:11 GMT
The funny thing is that I originally posted that clip with an addendum saying that I expected something like the post that followed it but deleted it as I wanted them to carry on wasting their time. If I now post about something about a lack of self awareness, for example, that would then be instantly turned into an apparently unselfaware reply too.
The best troll baiting fun was with the Russian troll farm who were first seen here on news comment sites after the Ukraine invasion. It didn't take long to figure out what was happening and they hadn't been fully bedded in so you could get them to explode by ridiculing their awful pay and conditions.
EDIT: I'll stop stringing them along now, honest.....
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 17, 2019 15:14:57 GMT
My test is, if at work or a business meeting you meet a man and woman you don’t know representing their business, you and your colleagues don’t immediately assume the man is the senior partner, the sadness is that most if not all will assume it is the man and generally are right. Well, I guess if something happens more often there is nothing wrong with assuming that. But there is also nothing wrong with seeing it turns out to be the woman. About the previous subject, my test is: In romantic storylines in films nowadays, women are portrayed as very real. They want to be independent, the roles are written in a way that makes sense, their insecurities are displayed, their desires, their reactions make sense, it makes these roles well written, real characters. Men in romantic storylines are portrayed as merely servants for the woman's ego/desires. To stay with the previous mentioned example, La La Land, Seb makes a 180 degrees personality change that comes out of nowhere because it is more desired. Suddenly he is this goofy puppy who convinces her to go after her dreams etc. His reactions don't make any sense. If you pay attention to this, in the end the male character always ticks all the woman's boxes, even if he does things wrong or makes mistakes, it was for her. Now, we all know that in real life men are not always like this. In fact, men in real life are more often than not also ver independent, have various insecurities and desires, etc. Also, they are very often insecure ***holes, and disrespectful. Not because they are bad, but because relationships are difficult and all people struggle with this and people are complex. What baffles me about this, and this is where we see the huge difference, why are women portrayed as very real in romantic films and men are not allowed to? Because women do not want to see real men in film? Because it does not fulfill a certain desire? Let's turn it around. Do most men want to see real women in films? With all their insecurities and complexities? Or do women want to see that. Because it is not particularly every men's fantasy/desire. Why is it so accepted to see downgraded males in films, that they are not being portrayed as real, and why is it forbidden to see downgraded women/women being not portrayed as real? Why do people not want to see real men in romantic films? This really is a double agenda. This shows me there is a huge difference in the way genders are treated in current society. Ask yourself these questions and the answers speak for itself.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 17, 2019 16:18:13 GMT
Repeating the arguments doesn’t strengthen the arguments. Hopefully everyone feels they had the chance to input.
Lets move the discussion on to other topics now please.
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Post by shady23 on Feb 17, 2019 19:02:52 GMT
OK I see Grease has been mentioned many times recently. I really cannot stand it.
Grease 2 on the other hand...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 19:22:22 GMT
OK I see Grease has been mentioned many times recently. I really cannot stand it. Grease 2 on the other hand... I will concede that Grease 2 is glorious.
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Post by Dawnstar on Feb 17, 2019 19:40:55 GMT
I've never seen Grease 2. Maybe I should some day. I like most of the original except I've always hated Sandy turning up at the end dressed & acting completely differently, especially as I think Olivia Newton-John looks much better in Sandy's "normal" look. I mean, there's the whole "you shouldn't have to change yourself for a man" issue as well but my main objection is that full pastel skirts are so much prettier than tight black lycra!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 19:45:02 GMT
Grease 2 is one of my favourites. It's so camp and fabulous, just so much fun. I actually saw the concert version "Cool Rider" twice in a day. I think Grease is a good film, but it's not amazing by any stretch. I enjoy watching it sometimes though. Leading off of the Grease discussion, I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but Grease Live was the best live TV musical there has been in this revival of TV musicals. It was brilliant and outweighed the actual film in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 19:55:18 GMT
I looooved Grease Live.
And liked the actual musical a lot. I saw it twice actually when it toured Spain.
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Post by Backdrifter on Feb 17, 2019 21:03:38 GMT
I struggle with musicals generally, stage and especially screen. There are very, very few I actually like. The form is a problem for me.
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Post by showgirl on Feb 18, 2019 4:51:56 GMT
The sung-through type try my patience (I avoid these if I know in advance) but I enjoy those with dialogue if the songs are decent, even if the plot is feeble.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 18, 2019 8:58:35 GMT
I've never seen Grease 2. I've always hated Sandy turning up at the end dressed & acting completely differently, I mean, there's the whole "you shouldn't have to change yourself for a man" issue You will LOVE Grease 2 then! The man changes for the woman, and not only for a fun scene with a wink eye at the end, no, for half the movie!
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 18, 2019 9:05:06 GMT
The sung-through type try my patience (I avoid these if I know in advance) but I enjoy those with dialogue if the songs are decent, even if the plot is feeble. It's interesting. If sung well, sung through shows are the only ones I like. Such as Phantom or Miss Saigon. When toned down, spoken dialogue is added (such as in the Les Mis movie and Phantom movie), it really tries my patience because the audience is forced to switch from spoken language to sung language all the time. This is especially irritating when it is semi-spoken dialogue. Like speaking 4 words and use a long vibrato on the 5th when talking to eachother. Just sing the whole line naturally and it feels much better. In movies like Grease or The Sound of music it doesn't bother me, because the songs are either sung solo thoughts, which only elevates the thought, or performances within a performance, or romantic duets. These 3 options always seem to work.
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Post by Dawnstar on Feb 18, 2019 17:52:41 GMT
You will LOVE Grease 2 then! The man changes for the woman, and not only for a fun scene with a wink eye at the end, no, for half the movie! Why do you think that because I said I disliked a character changing in one movie that I would like a chacracter changing in another movie? I've just looked up the plot of Grease 2 & suspect that if I ever watched it I'd find Michael far more appealing being not-cool at the beginning than him trying to be cool later on.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Feb 18, 2019 20:54:45 GMT
You will LOVE Grease 2 then! The man changes for the woman, and not only for a fun scene with a wink eye at the end, no, for half the movie! Why do you think that because I said I disliked a character changing in one movie that I would like a chacracter changing in another movie? I've just looked up the plot of Grease 2 & suspect that if I ever watched it I'd find Michael far more appealing being not-cool at the beginning than him trying to be cool later on. All I've ever heard about Grease 2 is that it's the same as the first movie but the songs are worse and the character traits are reversed so I'm completely on board with you here, it sounds awful.
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Post by Dave25 on Feb 18, 2019 23:11:04 GMT
You will LOVE Grease 2 then! The man changes for the woman, and not only for a fun scene with a wink eye at the end, no, for half the movie! Why do you think that because I said I disliked a character changing in one movie that I would like a chacracter changing in another movie? I've just looked up the plot of Grease 2 & suspect that if I ever watched it I'd find Michael far more appealing being not-cool at the beginning than him trying to be cool later on. I just said that because you stated "man" so clearly. Because the Grease 2 example is what happens in every romantic storyline nowadays and it seems to be loved by most. That is the whole issue we are discussing here on the board. So I suggest you watch the movie first but I would also like to hear about what you think of all the other romantic movies nowadays where the man changes into a supporting prop for the desires of the woman. And all those recent movies are actually really disrespecting men. In Grease it's just a character breaking free and showing another side with a wink eye in the last scene. Danny already loved and accepted her completely before. It's nothing more than a fun effort, just as much for herself. In Grease 2 it's about really being rejected from the beginning and changing for her to create some interest and milking that for half the movie. That was the beginning of making clowns of men in romantic films. And yet, I never see posts about that, only about a girl. I think the reason for this is the way men are sexualized in society today. It is truly shocking when I read the reactions on any given Facebook post about a hot dentist or police agent and what people want to do with them. Behaviour I haven't seen on posts of females since at least 15 years. Or the way ladies pinch my male colleague (actor) in the butt, while taking a picture on a movie premiere. It is really 1 sided. But I'm glad you care so much about both sides.
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Post by MrsCondomine on Feb 19, 2019 9:59:03 GMT
All opera is noise.
Monty Python was not, and never will be, remotely funny.
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Post by Backdrifter on Feb 19, 2019 12:03:03 GMT
Brilliant! That's a t-shirt, and a mug, and a badge, right there. Quick, get them made up, now! Monty Python was not, and never will be, remotely funny. I wonder if there are any Blokes Of A Certain Age here who, at this moment, are visibly bristling, cracking their knuckles and gearing up to type a reply that begins, "Well, actually..."
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Post by MrsCondomine on Feb 19, 2019 12:04:53 GMT
Brilliant! That's a t-shirt, and a mug, and a badge, right there. Quick, get them made up, now! Monty Python was not, and never will be, remotely funny. I wonder if there are any Blokes Of A Certain Age here who, at this moment, are visibly bristling, cracking their knuckles and gearing up to type a reply that begins, "Well, actually..." There's at least one person here going, "BUT-BUT THE MINISTRY OF SILLY WALKS. Comedy. Gold."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 13:30:10 GMT
I'm sure this won't be as unpopular as I think, but I hate alot to do with this whole "lad" culture. Most of the time, they're just assholes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 14:54:41 GMT
Grease 2 + Maxwell Caulfield = ❤️
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