|
Post by mattnyc on Feb 18, 2023 14:57:33 GMT
Nope. Haven’t touched that. Strangely they cut a line that shears made me laugh at the end when Stepmother says “I Know You” and the Wueen says “no one cares”, they cut that “no one cares”.
The thing that was clunkiest to me always was the Godmother. Now Cinderella goes to the shop and she the Godmother appears there’s new dialogue about shoes and then Cinderella says something like “I get it you’re the Godmother so we can skip all this introduction stuff” which I actually kind of liked.
|
|
|
Post by mattnyc on Feb 18, 2023 15:15:13 GMT
Another thing they kept (which I find odd) is when she Sebastian calls her a “nob” which I think maybe 1 out of a thousand Americans would understand. Each time I saw it in London, that line got a response but dead silence last night.
|
|
502 posts
|
Post by chernjam on Feb 18, 2023 20:00:06 GMT
Hey matt - thanks for the report. As opposed to some on BW who seem trying to out-snark one another and talking about things that have nothing to do with the show, appreciate your sharing. Especially since they seem hell-bent to drive the thing in the ground while pretending to lavish praise on the actors. Story and score wise from the reviews I remember reading last year, the critics were pretty supportive and I won't go so far as ALW to say they were "raves" they were mixed to positive. I'm curious what your thoughts are about the lead. The pre-releases of the pop versions of I know I have a heart didn't really do anything for me, but I don't suspect that version is meant for 49 year old guy I thought the clips of her singing "Bad Cinderella" from the dress rehearsal was okay as a preview. How'd she do with the bigger songs and overall?
|
|
|
Post by mattnyc on Feb 18, 2023 20:45:50 GMT
My pleasure. My thoughts on Linedy are…she needs some more time to settle into the role and really find her Cinderella. She sounds better in person than on those recordings they released though, so if I were her I’d be pretty angry that they did that.
|
|
233 posts
|
Post by singingbird on Feb 18, 2023 23:29:32 GMT
My pleasure. My thoughts on Linedy are…she needs some more time to settle into the role and really find her Cinderella. She sounds better in person than on those recordings they released though, so if I were her I’d be pretty angry that they did that. Thank you for such thoughtful posts! It doesn't sound like the show has had the overhaul so many of us think it needs...
|
|
|
Post by mattnyc on Feb 19, 2023 1:43:41 GMT
It’s my pleasure. I compare the changes to Cinderella, herself. Totally cosmetic but they don’t change what’s underneath.
|
|
524 posts
|
Post by vabbian on Feb 20, 2023 22:40:27 GMT
A perfect Broadway show for the deaf and blind community
|
|
|
Post by FairyGodmother on Feb 22, 2023 23:42:31 GMT
The Godmother character sounded really interesting in some of the early 'teaser' interviews. Almost as if she was playing with the townspeople, like a dolls house but with added cosmetic surgery. Her story never lived up to that though!
|
|
669 posts
|
Post by westendcub on Feb 23, 2023 13:43:46 GMT
How is the ball scene done on Broadway?
We got to spin around the theatre, is there a revolve on stage at the Imperial?
|
|
1,445 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Feb 23, 2023 13:56:24 GMT
How is the ball scene done on Broadway? We got to spin around the theatre, is there a revolve on stage at the Imperial? That was the only good part of the show!
|
|
|
Post by mattnyc on Feb 23, 2023 14:53:14 GMT
No. There’s no revolve and I think it looks fine like this. Cinderella now also makes her entrance from upstage instead of from the audience.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 23, 2023 15:30:14 GMT
He must have understood that this has at best a very slim chance of success on Broadway. Given that it was unsuccessful in London, it was clear that a major overhaul of the plot was needed. Why would New York audiences see it differently to London audiences? On the other hand, I don't really believe in pandering to popular opinion / tastes, so I do admire standing by your own work and saying "This is the musical I and my collaborators have written, if it fails it fails, so be it". So far, audience reactions to the Broadway previews suggest it will (and that doesn't surprise me one bit). However, an artist who bends over backwards to change music / plots just to appease audiences would strike me as lacking integrity.
|
|
869 posts
|
Post by karloscar on Feb 23, 2023 20:10:47 GMT
You can have all the integrity you like,but it won't make you any money in commercial theatre if you don't have a production people want to pay for.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 23, 2023 20:38:58 GMT
You can have all the integrity you like,but it won't make you any money in commercial theatre if you don't have a production people want to pay for. Sure, but that's kind of my point. I value artistic integrity over commercial even if I don't like what the artist has done.
|
|
869 posts
|
Post by karloscar on Feb 24, 2023 19:59:57 GMT
I could see your point if this was an innovative or unusual piece of art, and it would take some years for audiences to catch up with the artistic vision. This is a derivative and dull piece, full of boring ballads that needs a major edit on the score and a rewrite of the book to begin to be a coherent and entertaining musical. It's not pandering to the audience to fix pretty obvious problems.
|
|
1,445 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Feb 24, 2023 20:09:13 GMT
Previously, when he worked with people who were at the top of their game (lyricists, directors, designers etc) a lot of the re-writes and quality control would have happened before a show reached the public. Now he works with Yes Men, gives the public crap, and stamps his feet and throws a tantrum when they don’t like it.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 24, 2023 23:43:34 GMT
I could see your point if this was an innovative or unusual piece of art, and it would take some years for audiences to catch up with the artistic vision. This is a derivative and dull piece, full of boring ballads that needs a major edit on the score and a rewrite of the book to begin to be a coherent and entertaining musical. It's not pandering to the audience to fix pretty obvious problems. Do you not understand my argument? Yes, it's pandering to an audience if you don't agree with the audience. Integrity is about the artist, not the work; it's about doing something that you believe in. I love the way you present your personal opinions about ALW's work as if they are objective facts. In your posts on the subject of ALW to date you have shown that you are incapable of balanced critique. You simply dislike ALW and have nothing substantive or interesting to say about his work.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 25, 2023 0:12:03 GMT
Previously, when he worked with people who were at the top of their game (lyricists, directors, designers etc) a lot of the re-writes and quality control would have happened before a show reached the public. Now he works with Yes Men, gives the public crap, and stamps his feet and throws a tantrum when they don’t like it. And assuming what you say is true about rewrites etc., that's all ALW's fault? His collaborators are entirely blameless? They can do no wrong it seems.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 25, 2023 0:19:25 GMT
Previously, when he worked with people who were at the top of their game (lyricists, directors, designers etc) a lot of the re-writes and quality control would have happened before a show reached the public. Now he works with Yes Men, gives the public crap, and stamps his feet and throws a tantrum when they don’t like it. Also, regarding the argument about "yes men", how come he worked with Hal Prince no less than three times (on Evita, Phantom and Whistle Down The Wind)? How come he asked Trevor Nunn to work with him on three productions (CATS, Sunset Boulevard, and Woman in White)? Presumably you would not consider these directors "yes men"? Musicals are a collaborative form, however, so you are going to need to work with people you can get along with creatively.
|
|
1,445 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Feb 25, 2023 1:48:16 GMT
Previously, when he worked with people who were at the top of their game (lyricists, directors, designers etc) a lot of the re-writes and quality control would have happened before a show reached the public. Now he works with Yes Men, gives the public crap, and stamps his feet and throws a tantrum when they don’t like it. Also, regarding the argument about "yes men", how come he worked with Hal Prince no less than three times (on Evita, Phantom and Whistle Down The Wind)? How come he asked Trevor Nunn to work with him on three productions (CATS, Sunset Boulevard, and Woman in White)? Presumably you would not consider these directors "yes men"? Musicals are a collaborative form, however, so you are going to need to work with people you can get along with creatively. No, I would not consider Hal Prince or Trevor Nunn to be “yes men”. That’s my point! He used to work with good people. Now he has Laurence “I’ll direct any old $hit” Connor.
|
|
1,445 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Feb 25, 2023 1:48:57 GMT
Previously, when he worked with people who were at the top of their game (lyricists, directors, designers etc) a lot of the re-writes and quality control would have happened before a show reached the public. Now he works with Yes Men, gives the public crap, and stamps his feet and throws a tantrum when they don’t like it. And assuming what you say is true about rewrites etc., that's all ALW's fault? His collaborators are entirely blameless? They can do no wrong it seems. You really don’t get it.
|
|
869 posts
|
Post by karloscar on Feb 25, 2023 1:51:59 GMT
I could see your point if this was an innovative or unusual piece of art, and it would take some years for audiences to catch up with the artistic vision. This is a derivative and dull piece, full of boring ballads that needs a major edit on the score and a rewrite of the book to begin to be a coherent and entertaining musical. It's not pandering to the audience to fix pretty obvious problems. Do you not understand my argument? Yes, it's pandering to an audience if you don't agree with the audience. Integrity is about the artist, not the work; it's about doing something that you believe in. I love the way you present your personal opinions about ALW's work as if they are objective facts. In your posts on the subject of ALW to date you have shown that you are incapable of balanced critique. You simply dislike ALW and have nothing substantive or interesting to say about his work. The audience is never wrong!
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 25, 2023 9:19:43 GMT
Do you not understand my argument? Yes, it's pandering to an audience if you don't agree with the audience. Integrity is about the artist, not the work; it's about doing something that you believe in. I love the way you present your personal opinions about ALW's work as if they are objective facts. In your posts on the subject of ALW to date you have shown that you are incapable of balanced critique. You simply dislike ALW and have nothing substantive or interesting to say about his work. The audience is never wrong! I guess that's a valid point of view, I don't see it that way myself though.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 25, 2023 9:25:56 GMT
Also, regarding the argument about "yes men", how come he worked with Hal Prince no less than three times (on Evita, Phantom and Whistle Down The Wind)? How come he asked Trevor Nunn to work with him on three productions (CATS, Sunset Boulevard, and Woman in White)? Presumably you would not consider these directors "yes men"? Musicals are a collaborative form, however, so you are going to need to work with people you can get along with creatively. No, I would not consider Hal Prince or Trevor Nunn to be “yes men”. That’s my point! He used to work with good people. Now he has Laurence “I’ll direct any old $hit” Connor. Thanks for the clarification. My point was that he worked with them both on more than one occasion. If he just wanted "yes men" why would he ask them both to direct not one but three shows each? The argument doesn't hold up on that account. I agree that he chooses his collaborators poorly but that's not the same thing at all.
|
|
1,445 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Feb 25, 2023 9:33:50 GMT
No, I would not consider Hal Prince or Trevor Nunn to be “yes men”. That’s my point! He used to work with good people. Now he has Laurence “I’ll direct any old $hit” Connor. Thanks for the clarification. My point was that he worked with them both on more than one occasion. If he just wanted "yes men" why would he ask them both to direct not one but three shows each? The argument doesn't hold up on that account. I agree that he chooses his collaborators poorly but that's not the same thing at all. Trevor Nunn also directed Starlight Express and Aspects of Love, so that’s 5 shows. But my point is you worked with quality people in the past. Now he works with “yes men”, and there is no one around to tell him when things need work anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 25, 2023 9:41:40 GMT
Thanks for the clarification. My point was that he worked with them both on more than one occasion. If he just wanted "yes men" why would he ask them both to direct not one but three shows each? The argument doesn't hold up on that account. I agree that he chooses his collaborators poorly but that's not the same thing at all. Trevor Nunn also directed Starlight Express, so that’s 4 shows. But my point is you worked with quality people in the past. Now he works with “yes men”, and there is no one around to tell him when things need work anymore. That's interesting, you probably know more about his collaborators than I do. That would suggest that this change in his attitude happened very recently, post WIW? Regarding no one around to tell him when things need work, you seem to be blaming ALW for absolutely everything which doesn't seem fair. What about the book, why didn't anyone tell Emerald that needed work? Even if we think she's highly cooperative with ALW, it was her story.
|
|
233 posts
|
Post by singingbird on Feb 25, 2023 9:42:17 GMT
Thanks for the clarification. My point was that he worked with them both on more than one occasion. If he just wanted "yes men" why would he ask them both to direct not one but three shows each? The argument doesn't hold up on that account. I agree that he chooses his collaborators poorly but that's not the same thing at all. Trevor Nunn also directed Starlight Express and Aspects of Love, so that’s 5 shows. But my point is you worked with quality people in the past. Now he works with “yes men”, and there is no one around to tell him when things need work anymore. Trouble is, it's not as simple as that. Stephen Ward was directed by Richard Eyre. Love Never Dies by Jack O'Brien and The Woman in White was, of course, Trevor Nunn - none of them are 'yes men'. All of them are respected directors with amazing CVs. So even with strong collaborators it seems that ALW flounders now. Such a shame...
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 25, 2023 9:45:40 GMT
Trevor Nunn also directed Starlight Express and Aspects of Love, so that’s 5 shows. But my point is you worked with quality people in the past. Now he works with “yes men”, and there is no one around to tell him when things need work anymore. Trouble is, it's not as simple as that. Stephen Ward was directed by Richard Eyre. Love Never Dies by Jack O'Brien and The Woman in White was, of course, Trevor Nunn - none of them are 'yes men'. All of them are respected directors with amazing CVs. So even with strong collaborators it seems that ALW flounders now. Such a shame... So whatever his collaborators do you're going to blame ALW for everything? That hardly seems fair.
|
|
1,445 posts
|
Post by steve10086 on Feb 25, 2023 10:04:00 GMT
Trevor Nunn also directed Starlight Express, so that’s 4 shows. But my point is you worked with quality people in the past. Now he works with “yes men”, and there is no one around to tell him when things need work anymore. That's interesting, you probably know more about his collaborators than I do. That would suggest that this change in his attitude happened very recently, post WIW? Regarding no one around to tell him when things need work, you seem to be blaming ALW for absolutely everything which doesn't seem fair. What about the book, why didn't anyone tell Emerald that needed work? Even if we think she's highly cooperative with ALW, it was her story. I’m not blaming him for everything. I’m clearly stating that he works with crap people these days. People whose work is not of the quality that ALW had in the past. People who add nothing to pot, and don’t help to improve the show. Emerald Funnel came up with an awful plot, and ALW doesn’t see that. A better director would have pointed out all the flaws that the audience have pointed out, but Connor just does what he’s told.
|
|
|
Post by Oliver on Feb 25, 2023 10:23:51 GMT
That's interesting, you probably know more about his collaborators than I do. That would suggest that this change in his attitude happened very recently, post WIW? Regarding no one around to tell him when things need work, you seem to be blaming ALW for absolutely everything which doesn't seem fair. What about the book, why didn't anyone tell Emerald that needed work? Even if we think she's highly cooperative with ALW, it was her story. I’m not blaming him for everything. I’m clearly stating that he works with crap people these days. People whose work is not of the quality that ALW had in the past. People who add nothing to pot, and don’t help to improve the show. Emerald Funnel came up with an awful plot, and ALW doesn’t see that. A better director would have pointed out all the flaws that the audience have pointed out, but Connor just does what he’s told. I don't disagree with what you're saying. It's true he has chosen his collaborators poorly, I only question your theory about his motivations.
|
|