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Post by Paddy on Mar 16, 2022 21:39:07 GMT
I just hate the predictability of it. When it was announced, immediately I knew this would be "non-traditional" casting. My issue with this is that producers should be about *everyone* getting a fair shake at audition. Keeping every option open, seeing people who previously wouldn't get seen. And who knows, you can uncover a gem of a performance just from keeping an open mind. So many shows right now are actively going out and looking to hire POC and minorities, which absolutely defeats the whole point of harmony and inclusiveism. Affirmative action is no better or more progressive than whitewashing. The best people for appropriate parts is all anyone wants. In an ideal world, the best auditionees of all backgrounds would get the parts they are appropriate for, without a show having a preconceived "vision", or intention to make a statement by casting non-traditionally. It's all just so terribly predictable. That said, I was never going to see this anyway, it's not a show I enjoyed at the Savoy. How do you know that because it has been cast “non traditionally” that it hasn’t been cast based on merit? How do you know they didn’t see every girl who wanted to audition for Elle no matter how “traditional” they were or not and Courtney was the best out of the bunch? She’s a great singer, great comedic actor and will give a completely different but brilliant take on the role. Plenty of the other roles have been cast “traditionally” so why is this such an issue?
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Post by budd on Mar 16, 2022 21:45:02 GMT
Elle Woods' defining characteristics are that she's relatively well-to-do, naive, loves fashion, and appears, on the surface (as with everything about this) to be shallow. Unless you mean that those things can only be embodied by white skinny girls, which well done, great stereotyping and also missing the point of the story anyway, in an attempt to "uphold" it or whatever.
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Post by lolalou on Mar 16, 2022 21:54:36 GMT
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Post by Paddy on Mar 16, 2022 22:09:11 GMT
Ok….. that makes it even more sad that you think people who look like you shouldn’t be given a chance in different roles Where did I say that? I said the best people should be given roles regardless of their race, if they are suitable for the part. It shouldn't be the default position to slot in POC in order to balance the books. Again, how do you know that wasn’t the case here? Unless you know every single woman that was seen for Elle it’s not exactly fair to insinuate that the casting was not based purely on merit AND was able to diversity casting in multiple ways. I actually think having a woman of colour adds an extra layer of nuance to the role. She is a young woman trying to break into the legal profession, a profession notorious for nepotism and lack of diversity. Her not being taken serious in her pursuit of what she wants is even more realistic
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Post by christya on Mar 16, 2022 22:14:55 GMT
Personally I don't give a damn what race Elle is, so long as she remains blonde (which she will) but I find a plus size Elle a bit unbelievable. A plus size woman who acted like Elle or tried to exist in those spaces would not be perceived in the same way at all. She'd be more likely to be told there was nothing for her in the clothing shop than to end up in a conversation about using a half loop stitch on china silk. Maybe they'll tweak the script or something, but I suspect they'll just pretend that things like that wouldn't happen.
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Post by danb on Mar 16, 2022 22:15:02 GMT
She is not taken seriously because she is an airhead, vacuous blonde. Will another layer of meaning be added?
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Post by partytentdown on Mar 16, 2022 22:19:04 GMT
"Can Elle Woods be black?" is this year's "why isn't Jessie Buckley on tonight?"
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Post by Paddy on Mar 16, 2022 22:20:43 GMT
She is not taken seriously because she is an airhead, vacuous blonde. Will another layer of meaning be added? Isn’t the whole point that she’s not actually an airhead though, just judged to be one based her on looks and not much else?
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Post by christya on Mar 16, 2022 22:24:59 GMT
She is not taken seriously because she is an airhead, vacuous blonde. Will another layer of meaning be added? I hope they'll actually DO something to add it, otherwise it's approaching unforgivably ignorant. As a plus-size person, I want to be happy about this casting. I wish people had been willing to do stuff like this back when I was a teenager and desperately wanted to be in musical theatre but found no place for myself there. But I also don't want to spend an evening watching everyone pretend that Elle being larger wouldn't change her experience. I think I'll wait to hear more about this one before deciding if I'm willing to go.
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Post by shady23 on Mar 16, 2022 22:30:27 GMT
Ok….. that makes it even more sad that you think people who look like you shouldn’t be given a chance in different roles Where did I say that? I said the best people should be given roles regardless of their race, if they are suitable for the part. It shouldn't be the default position to slot in POC in order to balance the books. And there lies the problem... Whenever a person of colour is cast we always have people saying they are there just because of their race. People say they don't care who gets the role so long as they are the best person for the role but this kind of discussion just does not happen if a white person is cast. It is only said when a person of colour is cast. It shows what a long way there is to go, sadly.
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Post by Paddy on Mar 16, 2022 22:39:11 GMT
Where did I say that? I said the best people should be given roles regardless of their race, if they are suitable for the part. It shouldn't be the default position to slot in POC in order to balance the books. And there lies the problem... Whenever a person of colour is cast we always have people saying they are there just because of their race. People say they don't care who gets the role so long as they are the best person for the role but this kind of discussion just does not happen if a white person is cast. It is only said when a person of colour is cast. It shows what a long way there is to go, sadly. Exactly! No one has questioned or challenged the casting of Lauren Drew as Brooke, everyone has just assumed it was based purely on merit, why are the rest of the cast any different?
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Post by sph on Mar 16, 2022 22:39:35 GMT
Well... being a talented performer doesn't make you the most appropriate for a role. I'm sorry. It just... doesn't.
Patti Lupone is a talented performer. I'd see her in a show. But if they revived Beauty and the Beast on Broadway and cast her as Belle it would be inappropriate casting.
If they cast a scrawny 5 foot guy as Gaston that would also be inappropriate casting. Because it requires a certain physical type.
But we all would have to pretend it was wonderful that the 5 foot skinny guy was getting this opportunity when it actually goes against the character and the story?
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Post by Paddy on Mar 16, 2022 22:44:41 GMT
Well... being a talented performer doesn't make you the most appropriate for a role. I'm sorry. It just... doesn't. Patti Lupone is a talented performer. I'd see her in a show. But if they revived Beauty and the Beast on Broadway and cast her as Belle it would be inappropriate casting. If they cast a scrawny 5 foot guy as Gaston that would also be inappropriate casting. Because it requires a certain physical type. But we all would have to pretend it was wonderful that the 5 foot skinny guy was getting this opportunity when it actually goes against the character and the story? I mean Patti LuPone could be cast as the lead in Spider-Man into the dark and I would still see it. But doesn’t seem particularly relevant here, she’s required to be pretty, blonde and vain, all boxes easily ticked
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 16, 2022 22:52:47 GMT
I seem to have missed the memo that says only people with naturally blonde hair and a size 6 figure can play Elle Woods. Oh wait - Reece Witherspoon isn't a natural blonde either. I'm fairly sure Elle Woods isn't a completely natural blonde either.
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Post by sph on Mar 16, 2022 22:53:31 GMT
Well... being a talented performer doesn't make you the most appropriate for a role. I'm sorry. It just... doesn't. Patti Lupone is a talented performer. I'd see her in a show. But if they revived Beauty and the Beast on Broadway and cast her as Belle it would be inappropriate casting. If they cast a scrawny 5 foot guy as Gaston that would also be inappropriate casting. Because it requires a certain physical type. But we all would have to pretend it was wonderful that the 5 foot skinny guy was getting this opportunity when it actually goes against the character and the story? I mean Patti LuPone could be cast as the lead in Spider-Man into the dark and I would still see it. But doesn’t seem particularly relevant here, she’s required to be pretty, blonde and vain, all boxes easily ticked You'd see it! Sure! But the story and character wouldn't work unless it was changed, which I hope happens here.
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Post by Paddy on Mar 16, 2022 22:56:11 GMT
I mean Patti LuPone could be cast as the lead in Spider-Man into the dark and I would still see it. But doesn’t seem particularly relevant here, she’s required to be pretty, blonde and vain, all boxes easily ticked You'd see it! Sure! But the story and character wouldn't work unless it was changed, which I hope happens here. I mean this question in a very genuine way, what aspects of the character won’t work? I personally don’t see anything that needs to be changed or not in a major way
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Post by stagebyte on Mar 16, 2022 23:11:51 GMT
I mean Patti LuPone could be cast as the lead in Spider-Man into the dark and I would still see it. But doesn’t seem particularly relevant here, she’s required to be pretty, blonde and vain, all boxes easily ticked You'd see it! Sure! But the story and character wouldn't work unless it was changed, which I hope happens here. I assume any changes would have to be run past the writers/license holders. But at what point do changes mean the show is a different one?
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Post by FairyGodmother on Mar 16, 2022 23:15:04 GMT
You'd see it! Sure! But the story and character wouldn't work unless it was changed, which I hope happens here. I mean this question in a very genuine way, what aspects of the character won’t work? I personally don’t see anything that needs to be changed or not in a major way Well, I'd suspect you'd lose a lot of the stunts — I can't see a woman in her seventies would be quite as flexible or as willing to be swing around in a harness as a man in his twenties. Or the insurance company agreeing to it! (I can't believe I'm trying to write a sensible answer to why we won't see Patti LuPone playing teenage boy superhero Spider-Man any time soon. This thread is bonkers!)
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Post by Paddy on Mar 16, 2022 23:18:34 GMT
Well, I'd suspect you'd lose a lot of the stunts — I can't see a woman in her seventies would be quite as flexible or as willing to be swing around in a harness as a man in his twenties. Or the insurance company agreeing to it! (I can't believe I'm trying to write a sensible answer to why we won't see Patti LuPone playing teenage boy superhero Spider-Man any time soon. This thread is bonkers!) This has absolutely made my night haha I meant what changes would be needed to role of Elle with Courtney cast but understand the confusion in my question. Love the genuine thought going into the casting of Patti as Spider-Man though, really made me laugh, thank you!
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Post by princeton on Mar 16, 2022 23:23:56 GMT
I can imagine a few minor script changes - but very little will need to be done given that the key thing is that main character has to move from a seemingly self-obsessed fashionista - to a Harvard law graduate. She proves herself to be smart, personable and talented - all attributes which Courtney Bowman has in abundance. I remember seeing her when she won the Stephen Sondheim Student Performer of the Year and thinking she really did have the 'it factor' so I'm delighted that she's got such a great opportunity.
The production may be brilliant or may be terrible, it may be an honourable failure or an unqualified success - but isn't it great to have an all new production team looking at it though fresh eyes - rather than just doing yet another cookie cutter version? I wasn't that interested in seeing it - I am now.
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Post by sph on Mar 16, 2022 23:52:44 GMT
I mean, a wonderful vehicle that celebrates the talents of an actress who is a Person of Colour and not a typical traditional ingenue is great! But... Legally Blonde is not it.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 17, 2022 0:14:38 GMT
Some posts have been removed.
Fair warning: This thread WILL be permanently closed if it descends into people being disrespectful to other members, name calling, baiting, suggesting that members are racists (explicitly or implicitly), or generally going round in circles. Do not make claims or suggestions about other member’s motivations and backgrounds please. .
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Post by southstreet on Mar 17, 2022 10:52:15 GMT
I for one am extremely excited about this. I think every part is pretty well cast, my main objection is actually the fact that I think Callahan might be a tiny bit too young, but other than that I do not see anyone cast that can't portray what is required of the part. Elle is supposed to be seen as a blonde airhead, I personally can't remember anything in the book or songs referencing her figure, just her hair, fashion obsession and (perceived) lack of brain. All can be very easily portrayed by Courtney.
And I have my own biases of what is perceived as 'beautiful' as when a friend told me a few weeks ago that they cast Courtney from Six as Elle, I was confused for a second, as Courtney Stapleton is currently Belle in BatB and I didn't see her leaving that cushy job for a two months run at the Open Air. So my brain automatically went for the slimmer of the two Courtneys as well. But as soon as I realised they were talking about Courtney Bowman I have become really excited about this casting as I think Courtney Bowman is an incredible comedic actress, she has the vocal chops required and damn it, plus size girls are hot, however much society tells us to be hot (or get "attractive female love interest" lead roles) we need to be skinny. So I personally have no worries that her presence as Elle will require any changing of the script or would effectively change the story.
If we cast back our minds to when Sheridan Smith was announced as Elle, there were plenty of people worrying both about her vocals and about her not having the traditional 'West Coast Sorority Girl' look (me being one of them) and she proved us all wrong at that first preview in that it's all about the essence of Elle and not about looking like a clone of Reese Witherspoon.
Anyway, that is my two cents worth. :-)
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Post by pomegranate on Mar 17, 2022 10:58:35 GMT
Must be such a lovely feeling for Courtney after singing “So Much Better” at Roles We’ll Never Play and then booking this job!
I think she nails this song, can’t wait to see the rest of her Elle!
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Post by amp09 on Mar 17, 2022 16:53:57 GMT
Must be such a lovely feeling for Courtney after singing “So Much Better” at Roles We’ll Never Play and then booking this job! I think she nails this song, can’t wait to see the rest of her Elle! I was excited by her casting until I watched this. Perhaps it’s just the poor quality of the recording. Hope she doesn’t include the unnecessary riffing - complete turn off.
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Post by pomegranate on Mar 17, 2022 17:11:32 GMT
Must be such a lovely feeling for Courtney after singing “So Much Better” at Roles We’ll Never Play and then booking this job! I think she nails this song, can’t wait to see the rest of her Elle! I was excited by her casting until I watched this. Perhaps it’s just the poor quality of the recording. Hope she doesn’t include the unnecessary riffing - complete turn off. The only real riff she does that differs from the obcr is the final note which I feel like is perfectly acceptable and fun for a concert performance, or even a full production! Although saying that she does sound a bit nervous here and maybe did the run to make up for the lines she flubbed at the end, so I wouldn’t discount her yet!
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Post by inthenose on Mar 17, 2022 17:17:20 GMT
I watched the video. It wasn't very good. But these things never are. I imagine she'll be very polished by curtain up after work with an MD and proper rehearsals.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 17, 2022 17:57:17 GMT
I haven't encountered this particular performer before but she was under the note a lot during that performance.
That could well be a sound issue at that concert. But it doesn't fill me with confidence.
The riffing would have been ok if she had had the vocal strength to support things as she went for the higher notes. Again doesn't fill me with confidence.
Having said that, she will be more thoroughly coached and rehearsed for the full production.
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Post by christya on Mar 17, 2022 18:03:11 GMT
Not impressed by that video, I haven't heard her sing before so I'm assuming she normally does better. But I heard cracking, wobbling and quite a few places where she seemed out of breath. It also all seemed to be on a single level, if that makes any sense. Obviously a one-nighter that's basically for fun is different to a well rehearsed performance, I assume she can fix these things, but I'm not even close to sold.
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Post by Dawnstar on Mar 17, 2022 19:18:19 GMT
If we cast back our minds to when Sheridan Smith was announced as Elle, there were plenty of people worrying both about her vocals and about her not having the traditional 'West Coast Sorority Girl' look (me being one of them) and she proved us all wrong at that first preview in that it's all about the essence of Elle and not about looking like a clone of Reese Witherspoon. Not all. I went to that first preview unsure if I'd like her as Elle & came out knowing that I didn't. For me she didn't convince as a born rich, entitled girl. Fortunately, as she didn't do the entire run, I was able to see the show 3 times later in the run when the Elle casting was more to my taste. I can only be thankful that, scared off by the production style of the last few years, I didn't book for Regent's Park.
Edit: I should have said that my opinion had nothing to do with comparisons to Reece Witherspoon, because I've never seen the film of Legally Blonde.
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