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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 13, 2019 22:12:11 GMT
So Valjean decides to go 'northern' for a couple of scenes - for no apparent reason... Right...
I am rather bored by it all now. The story is a lot more than just Javert brooding and searching. A lot.
This is not a great adaptation. It really isn't
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Post by johartuk on Jan 14, 2019 0:14:08 GMT
So Valjean decides to go 'northern' for a couple of scenes - for no apparent reason... Right... I am rather bored by it all now. The story is a lot more than just Javert brooding and searching. A lot. This is not a great adaptation. It really isn't I've never read the book, so I have no idea about anything beyond the plot of the musical (and musical film adaptation). Judging this TV adaptation from that, it's good. The pacing seems about right, the story pretty straightforward, but well told thus far. It works as a TV drama. Incidentally, when did Valjean go 'northern'? I'm northern, but I don't recall his accent changing.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 14, 2019 0:22:51 GMT
We had a few lines in a clear Northern accent when he appeared to first talk to Cosette in the woods - it soon vanished after the first tavern scene. But it was clear to my housemate as well as to me - we both commented on it at the same time.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 14, 2019 0:33:40 GMT
a few lines in a clear Northern accent when he appeared to first talk to Cosette in the woods He rarely spoke in the first episode but when he did it was northern, and West talked about it in interviews. It lessened when he was mayor presumably because he's worked his way up, living under an assumed name, adopting a more bourgeois identity with a less prominent accent. He was back to his working class roots again in the forest scene - and it's a gentler accent.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 8:38:12 GMT
I enjoyed episode 3 the most (not that I disliked the others) maybe it's Fatine finally shuffling off (joke)
But I think we're finally seeing Valjean's character develop- and yes the accent thing is a legitimate choice. Maybe those who have a more naturally 'RP' accent aren't aware of it, but those of us with 'regional' accents certainly are- people very often 'moderate' their accent depending on who they're speaking to, what the circumstances are. And indeed to 'get ahead' people with regional accents learn to taper them. So a legitimate acting choice from West.
I loved West's dynamic with Cosette as well, it really gave the insight into that part of the story that the musical skips over a bit.
Also he's a braver man than me taking on Olivia Coleman!
Overall still enjoying it, I think it's a detailed, interesting adaptation that serves the book well.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 14, 2019 10:15:11 GMT
Accents can, indeed, be a legitimate choice - but they should be one that is understandable within the context of the overall performance. Not explained by an interview.
The fact that there was no clear accent in episode 1 (in part due to lack of dialogue for Valjean) means that the sudden shift to his 'natural' voice for the encounter with Cosette appeared (to me) to come from nowhere. Hence why I commented.
It felt more like an attempt at a disguise than being authentic.
We all have different voices for different situations - but when you are setting up a narrative like this, you have to be as clear as possible with your audience in order for them to buy into it.
My biggest issues with the script are more to do with the handling of the permanently snarling Javert than anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 10:27:11 GMT
I don't think it 'needed' to be explained. I hadn't read the article but to me Valjean in the factory as the Mayor etc seemed to be talking in a more 'put on posh voice' than we'd heard in episode one. Then his conversations with Cosette being the first 'in private' version of Valjean we see/hear seemed to be his 'natural' voice. It's fairly subtle anyway- not like he veers from RP to a thick Newcastle accent or something with no explanation.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 14, 2019 10:29:47 GMT
If he had continued to use his 'natural' voice when alone with Cosette, it would have made a lot more sense of the choice. But he reverted to neutral voice for the scenes once they were in Paris (but still alone together) and with the interactions with the nuns in the final sequence. In neither situation would he have needed to soften/taper anything - just be himself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 10:51:02 GMT
People with accents change 'em depending on context; sometimes it's as obvious as "I'm going to study at Cambridge and I don't want my fellow students to judge me for my strong Devonian accent", sometimes it's as esoteric as "I learned this word from my Scottish cousin and simply can't pronounce it the RP way without thinking really hard about it first". I once received praise for my accent work in a play because the woman playing my mother was from Liverpool and people were impressed by a few noticeably Scouse touches in the way I spoke even though that's just my voice. I have an acquaintance who is just as southern as any of us by birth but went overseas and came back with a broad Yorkshire accent. Isn't it more interesting to try and work out why there are differences in a character's accent (in my case, my real life mother is from Liverpool so I've been adjusting the way I speak for YEARS because I got sick of being bullied as a southern softie; in my acquaintance's case, she studied in Yorkshire and has felt a strong affinity for the county ever since) and what the actor is hoping to convey with such differences than to just sit there and write them off as unrealistic or pointless or dumb or bad?
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Post by Dawnstar on Jan 14, 2019 19:26:46 GMT
by the 2 and a half hour mark I wasn't even automatically "spotting in" the appropriate song either. Since the musical only runs about 2h45 including interval, are you sure you hadn't just run out of songs by that point?!
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 14, 2019 21:44:28 GMT
I'm also really loving this now. Totally hooked
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Post by daisy24601 on Jan 14, 2019 21:57:02 GMT
Enjoyed it, especially Valjean's dramatic getaway. Probably because I'm so familiar with the musical but it feels a bit slow going. Storywise we're only about 40-50 mins into the musical, but half way through the series.
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Post by crabtree on Jan 14, 2019 22:26:28 GMT
I'm loving it, but heck it leaves me anxious each week.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 17, 2019 23:50:13 GMT
I’m enjoying it too. However little Cosette’s wig has been a huge distraction.
Also I’d forgotten (or maybe never realised) that Gavroche was the son of “those two”. Is that made clear in the musical?
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Post by daisy24601 on Jan 18, 2019 1:41:50 GMT
I’m enjoying it too. However little Cosette’s wig has been a huge distraction.Also I’d forgotten (or maybe never realised) that Gavroche was the son of “those two”. Is that made clear in the musical? Omg I know! I don't think he's supposed to be their son in the musical. He's still a child when Eponine is grown up for one thing.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 18, 2019 7:24:50 GMT
So, given that Gavroche and Cosette are not that far apart in age in this version, presumably he’s going to be much older than he is in the musical. So much for “Little People”! It’s all sounding very sketchy. Did Boublil and Schonburg actually bother to read the book or did they just throw the damned thing together?
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Post by PhantomNcl on Jan 18, 2019 13:41:03 GMT
Also I’d forgotten (or maybe never realised) that Gavroche was the son of “those two”. Is that made clear in the musical? It's not mentioned at all in the musical, but I'm sure there was a reference to it in the film - after Little Fall of Rain I seem to remember one of the students asking Gavroche if he was ok and he said "She was my sister"
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Post by winonaforever on Jan 18, 2019 15:39:20 GMT
I’m enjoying it too. However little Cosette’s wig has been a huge distraction. I totally agree about the wig, it's horrible. If they couldn't find an actual blonde child, surely they could have found a more convincing wig!
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Post by crowblack on Jan 18, 2019 16:24:54 GMT
Did Boublil and Schonburg actually bother to read the book or did they just throw the damned thing together? I'm not much of a musicals fan, but I think they did a pretty good job on a book that's all over the place.
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Post by theatreian on Jan 18, 2019 17:25:57 GMT
I am loving the series too. It brings a lot more detail to the musical which is one of my favourites. The series is so well filmed, must have cost a fortune.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 20, 2019 22:25:14 GMT
That was the strongest episode so far for me. The students feel a bit underwritten so far - but they will get more screentime in the final 2 episodes.
Thenardier went full Fagin tonight - which jarred a bit for me. But overall, the best so far.
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Post by johartuk on Jan 21, 2019 0:35:48 GMT
Yes, tonight's ep was a good one. JVJ was mightily impressive kicking some serious backside, Cosette was sweet but also seemed to have a bit of a spark about her (which I liked) and Javert is really coming into his own now. I'm a bit disappointed with Marius - he's a bit of a wet lettuce. The 'Primary Tenant' lady amuses me - she was old when Cosette was a baby, yet she's still there, so she must be ancient by this point!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 21, 2019 5:34:30 GMT
The ageing did seem a little inconsistent between episodes 3 and 4
Some people hardly seem to change at all and others were barely recognisable.
I think the pace is going to be somewhat breathless for the final 2 episodes (unless one of them is extended) as we now have a lot of plot to get through.
In terms of the musical, we have yet to reach the end of Act 1 - and yet we are 2/3rd of the way through the run time.
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Post by karloscar on Jan 21, 2019 9:07:25 GMT
Aren't Marius and Cosette the most mind-numbingly boring couple in all of literature? Mind you, Dominic West's JVJ is not winning me over either. You wouldn't want to spend much time with him. And Javert seems to be a bit bored with it all. Four hours in, I'm still waiting to be moved at all....
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Post by crowblack on Jan 21, 2019 20:57:21 GMT
That was the strongest episode so far for me. The students feel a bit underwritten so far - but they will get more screentime in the final 2 episodes. The best yet - very atmospheric, and a far more interesting group of characters as we get into this part of the story. I particularly liked the time given to Eponine, and Cosette was endearing, especially the scene in the park where her joy captivates Marius, and JVJ's mixed feelings as she tries on the frocks (btw, doesn't she ever wonder where the money comes from?). We've only had a glimpse of the students so far, but I thought they were distilled down well - Enjolras like a fierce Delacroix and Grantaire nicely dishevelled like a Daumier.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 22, 2019 14:36:14 GMT
Btw, I do wonder why they didn't give this 8 hours, though. Davies said he wished he'd had 8 episodes for War and Peace, and many drama series are now 8 - plus episodes long. The BBC's Taboo and McMafia were both 8 hours, and US high-end drama tends to be as long or longer: it's what audiences are now used to. Budget-wise, when you have the actors, locations, crew all assembled anyway, why limit scenes to just a couple of minutes?
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Post by crowblack on Jan 22, 2019 16:37:36 GMT
USA market doesn't like such long epics If anything, the US prefers much longer drama series, and they sell worldwide. The Wire was 12 or 13 episodes a series, as is The Deuce, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones etc, and the episodes are around an hour long without ads (the last Thrones will be a shorter series but with feature length episodes). Even teen stuff like Stranger Things is 8 hours, and 'limited series' like Feud - Bette and Joan or that Gianni Versace Murder thing seemed to go on for ages. It's a bit frustrating with the BBC Les Miserables where you have all that talent assembled but so many of the scenes are so short. At the same time, the BBC Philip Pullman adaptation sounds like it's going to be 3 or 4 separate 8-hour series. If the can do 8 hours for a single children's book, why not the same for an epic?
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Post by crowblack on Jan 22, 2019 19:04:17 GMT
12 or 13 seems to be average Yes - I often bail out when I realise, because some really start to drag!
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Post by Jon on Jan 22, 2019 19:16:43 GMT
I suspect Les Mis couldn't be more than six episodes for cost reasons and to an extent scheduling reasons.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 22, 2019 20:04:34 GMT
cost reasons and to an extent scheduling reasons. Costwise, they already have the cast, locations, sets, extras etc. Would it cost that much more to give those scenes more screen time? Schedulingwise, McMafia was given 8 episodes in the Sunday 9pm slot and that wasn't as star-stuffed or appealing a production as this.
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