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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 23, 2018 11:06:04 GMT
Let's be real tho, I love the musical but the lyrics are not a work of genius
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Post by kimbahorel on Dec 23, 2018 11:09:30 GMT
I see nothing wrong with the lyrics or songs.
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Post by indis on Dec 23, 2018 16:10:07 GMT
I see nothing wrong with the lyrics or songs. same
and might i had that director is a st... idi...
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Post by daisy24601 on Dec 23, 2018 23:45:25 GMT
The arrogance. I do want to see this but that sours it somewhat.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Dec 23, 2018 23:47:19 GMT
I do worry that I will get the same reaction as when I watch Pygmalion. You get such a clear sense of where the songs must come that their absence tends to overwhelm your enjoyment of anything else.
I will still give it a go - but it will have to be good to warrant that much airtime.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 9:11:13 GMT
haha as if Andrew Davies is a master of the written word. his stuff can be very good in terms of story telling, but nothing hugely original or creative in text.
I'm looking forward to this myself although it looks a lot like the movie, almost the same sets in some scenes
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Post by oxfordsimon on Dec 24, 2018 10:08:31 GMT
On the whole Davies has written adaptations - which somewhat limits his scope to be that original or creative as he has to preserve the original in a form that appeals to the majority of TV viewers.
I have no idea what prompted his comments - they do seem ill-judged. Perhaps he was being tongue-in-cheek and that didn't translate well into the written word - hard to tell. But given that most people only know Les Mis from the musical (and a fair number of people still think it is about the French Revolution), he would have been advised to keep schtum!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 10:13:49 GMT
yes but his adaptions aren't anything special in terms of language used. I'm not knocking them as I've enjoyed them, but to criticise another writer when not being anything different yourself isn't on
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Post by crowblack on Dec 24, 2018 10:50:04 GMT
I think Davies has always come across as rather pompous (my Mum calls him "the man who thinks he invented sex"), which does grate when he's a screenwriter of adaptations, not a novelist in his own right, though seems to be feted as though he were producing something original. The BBC have been doing good work publicising this adaptation (I've been surprised in the past how underpublicised some great drama series have been) and I daresay their PR dept won't be happy about Davies' needlessly antagonistic comments. Then again, sections of the Les Mis fandom can be as unreasonably possessive and nasty as the worst "oh no, they've cast a woman!" Star Wars and "oh no, they've cast a woman" Doctor Who fans so I don't have much sympathy for the "humph, I'm boycotting this now" brigade either.
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Post by duncan on Dec 24, 2018 12:29:50 GMT
He peaked with Season 1 of A Very Peculiar Practice, Ron Rust is a work of genius - its been all downhill since then.
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Post by crowblack on Dec 24, 2018 13:01:58 GMT
I liked the adaptations of P&P and Bleak House, but these are great books, and I don't see why he's singled out for such adulation when there are many other screenwriters doing sterling work adapting pre-existing novels. And I know newspapers like clickbait and may well be soliciting a bitchy line to make headlines, but it must be exasperating for the cast and crew when this happens: I've seen a couple of the young actors take to Twitter in the last few hours to defend the musical.
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Post by indis on Dec 24, 2018 14:38:10 GMT
Enjolras with a beard? wow, another nogo for me, next to that awful director, the not-blonde Fantine and another comment i read somewhere about Marius wanting Eponine to use her sexiness for his uses (or something along the line)
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Post by daisy24601 on Dec 24, 2018 18:05:39 GMT
Enjolras with a beard? wow, another nogo for me, next to that awful director, the not-blonde Fantine and another comment i read somewhere about Marius wanting Eponine to use her sexiness for his uses (or something along the line) Fantine's partner/Cosette's father is far too good looking too. In the book he's bald and ugly which I like as it's different to her just falling for some hot dude and having his baby.
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Post by Dawnstar on Dec 24, 2018 19:34:15 GMT
I do worry that I will get the same reaction as when I watch Pygmalion. You get such a clear sense of where the songs must come that their absence tends to overwhelm your enjoyment of anything else. I had the same problem when I saw Taming of the Shrew.
What I find ironic about the timing of Davis's comments is that when I was in Waterstones only 4 few days ago I happened to notice an edition of Les Miserables which had on the front cover the image of Cosette from the musical's poster, so if it's good enough for the publishers...
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Post by crowblack on Dec 24, 2018 20:17:33 GMT
Enjolras with a beard? wow, another nogo for me Joseph Quinn is one of the best actors of his generation. Are you really not going to watch this because he's got period-appropriate facial hair and the actress playing Fantine is brunette? (Btw, the musical dresses Enjolras, a civilian on the Paris streets, in a gold-frogged military hussar waistcoat like he's in Adam and the Ants. That's not in the book either.)
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Post by indis on Dec 25, 2018 9:04:38 GMT
sorry never heard of that actor before, so my points as stated above still stand-above them all that as... of an director
as for Enjolras: He is described as pretty as a maiden or something like that, never seen a girl with a beard
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Post by indis on Dec 25, 2018 9:13:12 GMT
somehow i feel sorry for that „director“ : it seems he doesn’t trust his work to speak for itself so he has to put some publicity to it in any way he knows, and he chose to slay a great musical to do it. Well, if its the only way to advertise it, what a poor poor person
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Post by crowblack on Dec 25, 2018 10:14:43 GMT
sorry never heard of that actor before, so my points as stated above still stand-above them all that as... of an director He is one of the best young actors around, and people who saw his debut in Dickensian were tweeting he'd make a great Enjolras back in 2016 before the BBC version was even announced. If you watch this - and I really hope you do - you'll see what we mean. Enjolras is the novel is modelled visually and verbally on the 1790s revolutionary Saint Just, and his appearance as described isn't actually period-appropriate for the 1830s. And nowhere in the novel does it state that Enjolras walked around dressed like a military horseman in battledress - no civilian in the 1830s, in fact no civilian until 1960s hippies and 1980s New Romantics, would have walked around a city in a gilded hussar waistcoat, but the Les Mis musical fandom don't all say "right, I'm boycotting this musical - this character is dressed entirely inappropriately!" Also, why are you criticising the director, Tom Shankland? He didn't make these comments. It's Andrew Davies, the screenwriter, who was criticising the musical.
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Post by indis on Dec 25, 2018 13:34:30 GMT
then not the director, the writer with his awful interviews
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Post by Jon on Dec 25, 2018 18:44:33 GMT
It's just his opinion, I don't get why people are getting so wound up. It's also not nice to call someone you don't know an idiot.
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Post by justfran on Dec 31, 2018 18:59:16 GMT
What were initial thoughts on episode one then? I thought it was a bit slow, maybe just because it is setting up for the next 5 episodes. I do miss the songs though 😉
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 19:12:24 GMT
I enjoyed episode one! it's a slow burn for sure, but so are most of Davies' adaptations (and that's sort of the point isn't it? ) I confess I had moments of singing the songs in my head - it's hard not to when they repeat '24601' over and over. But I also enjoyed the 'breathing space' to learn more about the characters. And Dom West is predictably excellent. As was everyone else from what we saw in episode one (ok Fatine was a bit annoying but as a character she is so that's hardly the actress' fault). I also enjoyed Johnny Flynn being a bit of a lad, but not quite, which seems his niche.
I'm not a huge fan of the musical (as in I like it well enough but I've only seen it live twice and have no overwhelming desire to add to that again in the immediate future) so I don't know what character details are VERY different, but that's like me whining the stage version of Pride and Prejudice wasn't exactly the same as Davies' version- Colin Firth in the pond and all.
Finally, as much as I joined in some twitter bitching about Davies' ill-thought comments, my take is that it's more a case of foot-in-mouth and quotes taken out of context. Les Mis isn't even every musical theatre fan's cup of tea never mind someone who isn't into musicals (which is a perfectly fine and reasonable stance) Would I publicly decry the most famous version of the thing I'm selling? probably not...but Davies is 80-something and one of the most successful TV writers we have so I don't think he's ALL that bothered.
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Post by crowblack on Dec 31, 2018 19:19:16 GMT
I think they've done a good job - I liked the Fantine bits more than I expected, there were some strong scenes and Derek Jacobi was superb. Oddly, given the praise being heaped on him at the mo, the issues I had with it were with Davies' dialogue and structure, particularly the clunky scene between Javert and Jean Valjean in the prison (the "I'd have made a better criminal than you" bit), and I'm not keen on the way they seem to be doing Javert's character in this, sneery, sadistic and crowing. Still, it's early days and the reviewers who saw the first two episodes said it steps up a gear in part 2.
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Post by crowblack on Dec 31, 2018 19:27:23 GMT
Btw, I'm not a fan of the musical but as the novel itself is a weirdly-structured melodrama jam-packed with implausible coincidences I don't think turning it into a musical is a 'travesty' - I just don't like any of the songs! I see More4 are trolling the BBC by screening the musical this evening.
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Post by jaqs on Dec 31, 2018 19:42:34 GMT
Derek Jacobi with his quiet faith and calm was the absolute highlight from what felt like a dreary costume drama with too many storylines at once.
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Post by daisy24601 on Dec 31, 2018 21:05:29 GMT
I liked the Valjean scenes best, getting to see a bit more of him struggling with the idea of being "good" than we do in the musical.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 21:11:48 GMT
I really enjoyed it and looking forward to the rest. so far it seems a better made piece of tv than War and Peace.
I also watched the special on Andrew Davis on Bbc4 after and it made me even more sure he knew what he was saying when he criticised the musical. He's talented no doubt, but he sure has his opinions
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 31, 2018 21:27:35 GMT
I love Les Miserables, the best musical ever and only wish I could seen from the beginning with the magnificent Colm Wilkinson, saying that I didn't love the movie and thought Russell Crowe was flat out awful and Hugh Jackman was a little better.
It has been very faithful to the book, however a bit of a ingenious to start the drama with the battle of Waterloo and Thenardier robbing soldiers' bodies, which is a lot further on in the book. Also when Valjean steals a Sou from the boy, before Valjean commits to Christianity, which is from the book. Also good to see that Fantine as a middle class bourgeoisie and the director done a brilliant job on doing this by giving her the ability to read, before her scripted 'fall from grace.'
So even I could shed a tear when the great Derek Jacobi as bishop buys Valjean soul, which isn't bad for a devout atheist
However
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 3:14:54 GMT
It's a slow burn I guess that's the point of a mini-series. Fantine's backstory adds a further level of tragedy in she was used by the man she loved.
I've just had a browse at the thread and the screenwriters comments are odd, his dialogue isn't high art. He doesn't seem to understand Musical Theatre as it's own distinct art form and how a musical operates, and frankly how Les Miserables and Phantom in the Eighties revolutionised the art form.
Maybe I am biased, I was just saying how I think I dreamed a dream is one of the top musical theatre songs ever written in my opinion.
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Post by crowblack on Jan 1, 2019 11:32:57 GMT
He doesn't seem to understand Musical Theatre You can understand it while still hating it: when I was a kid I took a friend to see one of my favourite goth bands and she left after the first song and hid in the toilets for the rest of the gig. She did the same when I took her to an indie film, walked out after 5 mins and sat in the cafe very p-d off I didn't join her. She liked boybands and 'The Sound of Music' which was/is my idea of hell. And the media likes a row. The Andrew Davies vs the musical story got Les Miserables half of the front page of the Torygraph yesterday, with a great big photo of Lily Collins in costume: free advertising.
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