Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Dec 5, 2018 9:06:25 GMT
Very good point on Limitless - I ditched my membership while the Odeon Leicester Square was closed but it is a very good deal at £19.99 per month including West End.
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3,100 posts
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Post by Rory on Dec 5, 2018 9:07:50 GMT
Two points:
1. Odeon are being greedy. Pure and simple. Cinema cannot be likened to theatre or sporting events for the reasons outlined in the post above.
2. West End theatre prices are now prohibitive. A work colleague yesterday excitedly told me she had booked flights and a hotel to visit her sister in London next year and that they had tickets for All About Eve. She said they would have booked another show but just couldn't afford to. If you don't live in London, day seats just aren't an option.
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Post by Mark on Dec 5, 2018 9:09:25 GMT
My local cinema (Empire) is I think £4.50 on a Tuesday, £3.25 on a Weds with Meerkat Movies, and £6.10 at peak times.
Even when I’m in London I can get £7-£8 tickets through “perks at work” mostly. I never realised how expensive cinema can be!
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Post by Mark on Dec 5, 2018 9:11:05 GMT
Going to firmly disagree with you there. Anyone is capable of logging onto Todaytix at 10am if they live in London or not. Or getting out of their hotel bed and rolling into town. In fact, it’s probably easier for a lot of visitors to dayseat than those who live in London
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 9:16:32 GMT
It depends why you're dayseating. If you're dayseating because you can't afford tickets any other way, then it's unlikely you're going to be able to drop a bunch of money on a hotel room. And the TodayTix rush isn't the same as dayseating, as the nice thing about dayseating is that if you turn up early enough, you're guaranteed your ticket, whereas if you're all relying on the TodayTix app, it's more important to be lucky than dedicated. Plus you still have to be close enough to London that a same-day ticket purchase isn't entirely impractical.
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Post by peggs on Dec 5, 2018 9:51:05 GMT
Day seating in the week for me is pointless, I live outside of London and so travelling in early is so expensive you'd end up spending more than buying expensive seats in the first place. My local cinema costs about £18 A film now, more if it's a big popular one so those circle seats seem quite a good deal.
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Post by The Matthew on Dec 5, 2018 9:56:45 GMT
Or getting out of their hotel bed and rolling into town. In fact, it’s probably easier for a lot of visitors to dayseat than those who live in London That doesn't help much if you're not a tourist. Ordinary people with jobs have to get out of bed and roll into work.
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Post by Mark on Dec 5, 2018 10:14:56 GMT
Or getting out of their hotel bed and rolling into town. In fact, it’s probably easier for a lot of visitors to dayseat than those who live in London That doesn't help much if you're not a tourist. Ordinary people with jobs have to get out of bed and roll into work.
That’s why I’m saying it’s probably easier for tourists to dayseat
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Post by poster J on Dec 5, 2018 10:47:39 GMT
If you really want to see a show anyone can arrange their schedule to be able to day seat if they really don't want to advance purchase - holidays from work are a thing, and cheap accommodation is perfectly possible to find in London just as it is anywhere else. It all depends on whether you are willing to compromise (for example a shared bathroom in your accommodation) - if you aren't, then it isn't the theatre ticket price that is preventing you from seeing a show.
And similarly, ticket prices are not prohibitively expensive full stop - that's not the whole story. If you are insistent on centre stalls tickets then they may well be out of your price range, but there's nothing to stop you sitting in the Upper Circle instead for much less money even if you aren't able to day seat. It's all about personal priorities.
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Post by poster J on Dec 5, 2018 10:48:52 GMT
I’m saying it’s probably easier for tourists to dayseat Depends where they are staying, and how early the lines start. On the one hand, the line may form before the tube opens so they won't be near the front. On the other, many people will find getting up at being in line from 7am, then seeing the show at 7.30pm leaves them too tired to enjoy it that much. Fine if you are younger and can cope, not so much as you get a bit older. If you are a tourist you have the option of going to back to your hotel to rest though, which is more time consuming for people coming in from the outskirts of the city or day trip distance beyond.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Dec 5, 2018 10:53:40 GMT
And for the record, I also find it a total shame that the last vast cinema in London is no more. It's how I remember cinema-going before they were all sub-divided then we moved to multiplexes, and it was far more special than today. That's all. Actually as I understand it, the main screen is still the same size as it was, they've just reduced the number of seats to fit the Luxe seats in. The smaller screens are in the bit which was the Odeon Mezzanine next door.
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Post by Rory on Dec 5, 2018 11:05:16 GMT
Going to firmly disagree with you there. Anyone is capable of logging onto Todaytix at 10am if they live in London or not. Or getting out of their hotel bed and rolling into town. In fact, it’s probably easier for a lot of visitors to dayseat than those who live in London Thing is, if you've only got two nights or so in London, and theatre isn't your be all and end all, you're probably not going to have the time or inclination to get up at the crack of dawn and spend time in a day seat queue. Too many other things to do. It's a break after all! You also want to plan your trip. My colleague was saying she was looking at seat prices for The Price and just thought they were too expensive/ unaffordable so she and her sister didn't book.
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Post by Rory on Dec 5, 2018 11:29:55 GMT
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Post by ellie1981 on Dec 5, 2018 12:35:19 GMT
I paid £30 maximum for a cinema ticket and that was for a Gala Premiere screening at the London Film Festival where the stars are there. For £40 I’d want Emily Blunt and Lin Manuel Miranda dancing on stage in the flesh.
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Post by Jon on Dec 5, 2018 15:56:48 GMT
The OLS pricing wouldn't work elsewhere but I think they may be able to pull it off because they've made the back of the house which used to be £18-25 much cheaper. I notice that for The Favourite and Stan and Ollie, it's much cheaper so it seems it also depends on the film.
The West End cinemas tend to be more expensive anyway, the Cineworld Leicester Square for example has three different formats that cost between £20-23 but clearly they have no problem selling them. All three LS cinemas have been refurbished to a high standard and while tickets are expensive in those cinemas, it's clear that they're all putting money back into making them look clean and comfortable, the old flea pits of old aren't going to cut it.
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Post by jojo on Dec 5, 2018 19:14:41 GMT
I don't much see the point in having a trip into fancy London town just to see a film at twice the price (or more) of elsewhere, but I reckon a lot of people will have seen that it's the cinema where they have the film premieres, so people are happy to pay extra to be in the same space that their favourite film star, or turn up to an envelope opening celebrity once occupied.
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Post by Dawnstar on Dec 5, 2018 20:23:59 GMT
Depends where they are staying, and how early the lines start. On the one hand, the line may form before the tube opens so they won't be near the front. On the other, many people will find getting up at being in line from 7am, then seeing the show at 7.30pm leaves them too tired to enjoy it that much. Fine if you are younger and can cope, not so much as you get a bit older. I gave up on day seating because I was too tired to then enjoy the show when I was still in my 20s so I wouldn't just say it's when people get older! I confess to being very happy that my current favourite long-running WE shows do not do day seats so I don't even have consider it as an option.
In terms of cinema prices, I only ever go to the cinema to see opera or ballet cinecasts where the tickets are typically around £20 as standard so I didn't think the newly-announced £40 seemed that high. Not that I'd pay it myself but then I'd never go to the cinema in London as there's no point going down there for something I can see locally, unlike for live theatre.
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Post by kathryn on Dec 20, 2018 13:54:36 GMT
As a Limitless holder I got an invite to their ‘dress rehearsal’ day on 20th Dec, so I’m going to try the circle seats out. So, they cancelled the 'dress rehearsal' showing I booked, and have sent me a £25 e-gift card instead. RESULT! Especially as I had forgotten all about it and booked to go to Inheritance part 1 tonight......
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Feb 17, 2019 10:35:27 GMT
As part of my current dejunking I found the scrapbook of my 1978 school trip to London - including the ticket for my first ever West End show, Oliver! at the Albery (now the Noel Coward)
Judging by the stamp on the ticket stub we paid £1.20 for Row N of the stalls - same seats are now £135 for All About Eve!
Looking at measuringworth.com, "In 2017, the relative value of £1.20 from 1978 ranges from £5.67 to £13.15."
To be fair our tickets were presumably a group booking. And this was the 1977 revival of Oliver! which would have been running for about a year by that point. But still, that's about 11000% inflation.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Feb 17, 2019 12:11:29 GMT
To be totally fair here I've had a look at prices for school group bookings to Matilda (which I'd say is comparable in terms of the type of show and length of run)
For school bookings of groups of 10+ they offer "Band A or below reduced to £25 for Tuesday - Thursday evenings & Wednesday matinees" so in fact that's about double the £13.15 value in today's money of my £1.20 Oliver! ticket. Interesting!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 13:00:15 GMT
As part of my current dejunking I found the scrapbook of my 1978 school trip to London - including the ticket for my first ever West End show, Oliver! at the Albery (now the Noel Coward) Judging by the stamp on the ticket stub we paid £1.20 for Row N of the stalls - same seats are now £135 for All About Eve! Looking at measuringworth.com, "In 2017, the relative value of £1.20 from 1978 ranges from £5.67 to £13.15." To be fair our tickets were presumably a group booking. And this was the 1977 revival of Oliver! which would have been running for about a year by that point. But still, that's about 11000% inflation. In 1978 there were only 3 TV channels - none dedicated to showing films only - and although video recorders did exist they were the preserve of the very, very rich. (some films appeared on television once a decade if you were lucky with films like Vertigo - now widely accepted as the best film ever - not on our screens for over 20 years for example) People therefore went out to the theatre or cinema in far greater numbers than they do now or ever will do again and, as a consequence, tickets could be cheap. However, for all the talk of theatre being expensive or elitist if you are flexible with what you want to see or your dates you should be able to avoid paying more than £15-20 for a ticket which in 2019 is great value for money. If you're not flexible you will possibly pay more but theatres have to stay financially viable and we can't expect them to pander to the nostalgia of era which does not and will never again exist.
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Post by Rory on Feb 17, 2019 14:10:41 GMT
They are still obscene and getting worse in the West End. I don't care what anyone says. I nearly choked the other day when I saw the prices being charged for The Lehman Trilogy at the Piccadilly.
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Post by freckles on Feb 17, 2019 16:21:37 GMT
As part of my current dejunking I found the scrapbook of my 1978 school trip to London - including the ticket for my first ever West End show, Oliver! at the Albery (now the Noel Coward) Judging by the stamp on the ticket stub we paid £1.20 for Row N of the stalls - same seats are now £135 for All About Eve! Looking at measuringworth.com, "In 2017, the relative value of £1.20 from 1978 ranges from £5.67 to £13.15." To be fair our tickets were presumably a group booking. And this was the 1977 revival of Oliver! which would have been running for about a year by that point. But still, that's about 11000% inflation. In 1978 there were only 3 TV channels - none dedicated to showing films only - and although video recorders did exist they were the preserve of the very, very rich. (some films appeared on television once a decade if you were lucky with films like Vertigo - now widely accepted as the best film ever - not on our screens for over 20 years for example) People therefore went out to the theatre or cinema in far greater numbers than they do now or ever will do again and, as a consequence, tickets could be cheap. However, for all the talk of theatre being expensive or elitist if you are flexible with what you want to see or your dates you should be able to avoid paying more than £15-20 for a ticket which in 2019 is great value for money. If you're not flexible you will possibly pay more but theatres have to stay financially viable and we can't expect them to pander to the nostalgia of era which does not and will never again exist. True, but those £15-20 tickets are getting increasingly few and far between. Even dayseats and lotteries are rarely under £25 now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 16:35:52 GMT
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Post by wickedgrin on Feb 17, 2019 17:06:18 GMT
The price hike is down to the spread of premium pricing. The premium seat allocation used to be just the centre front stalls and front dress circle - perhaps 100 seats a performance. Now premium seating takes huge swathes of the stalls and circle. There can also be "bands" of premium prices not just one! Top price tickets only buys you side and rear stalls and back of the circle.
Yes, of course there are cheaper seats and deals - but as I have said before, to the casual theatre goer who just looks online at the theatre websites the prices are horrific. Waitress for example - an unknown show over here with no star casting is asking £99.50 £115 and £135 for premium seats. £70/80 buys you very front stalls and sides. HUGE availability- it will have to discount - but perhaps discounting is a part of the business model?
Will theatre tickets become the new DFS sofa sale where no-one buys one unless it's "Half Price - sale must end Monday!"
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Post by Marcus on Feb 17, 2019 17:17:33 GMT
I always think some shows just ‘chance their arm’. They put seats at huge prices. If people pay that then great, if not they can reduce the price giving people the illusion of ‘this Seat is 50% off’.
The seat should have always been the ‘discounted’ price but people then feel they are getting a bargain.
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Post by viserys on Feb 17, 2019 17:56:30 GMT
I always think some shows just ‘chance their arm’. They put seats at huge prices. If people pay that then great, if not they can reduce the price giving people the illusion of ‘this Seat is 50% off’. The seat should have always been the ‘discounted’ price but people then feel they are getting a bargain. I never understand how this logic is meant to work. A show that needs to be discounting 50% (or more) vibes that it's not doing well and this in turn vibes that it's not popular/not very good. A show that's selling out/has low availability for weeks to come vibes that there's a huge demand and thus "must be good". American shows seem to cleverly capitalize on this by keeping booking periods short - even Hamilton, by all counts a success, only just extended booking for one month - June. Book of Mormon has been doing the same. Dynamic pricing is far more subtle, but I also wonder how many people are scared off by checking new shows, see the initially very high prices, decide against booking and never check back. I think it would make far more sense to start low and only hike prices when there's a big demand. Also gives new shows a chance to get the punters in and then help to spread word of mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 18:16:57 GMT
I always think some shows just ‘chance their arm’. They put seats at huge prices. If people pay that then great, if not they can reduce the price giving people the illusion of ‘this Seat is 50% off’. The seat should have always been the ‘discounted’ price but people then feel they are getting a bargain. I never understand how this logic is meant to work. A show that needs to be discounting 50% (or more) vibes that it's not doing well and this in turn vibes that it's not popular/not very good. A show that's selling out/has low availability for weeks to come vibes that there's a huge demand and thus "must be good". American shows seem to cleverly capitalize on this by keeping booking periods short - even Hamilton, by all counts a success, only just extended booking for one month - June. Book of Mormon has been doing the same. Dynamic pricing is far more subtle, but I also wonder how many people are scared off by checking new shows, see the initially very high prices, decide against booking and never check back. I think it would make far more sense to start low and only hike prices when there's a big demand. Also gives new shows a chance to get the punters in and then help to spread word of mouth. It's common marketing technique. For example, the day they stocked the shelves with Easter Eggs, Tesco were selling lead brands as 50% off. It's not a 50% reduction. It's the price point at which they make profit on the item labeled as "50% off"; making the customer think they're getting a deal and triggering sales. All those "January Sales" - just items brought in at a particular price point and branded as "discounted" (these days).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 19:48:23 GMT
Supermarkets aren't a great comparison though, a lot of their discounted products are loss leaders, stuff they're willing to lose money on because it will help lure people in who will also buy other things so the retailer ultimately does end up in profit. Theatres only *really* sell tickets (programmes, refreshments, and merch are accessories rather than the primary reason for some customers' visits), you can't loss lead those in the same way because even a whole bottle of interval wine won't make up for a ticket purposefully sold at a loss.
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Post by Jon on Feb 17, 2019 20:06:28 GMT
We've seen with The Full Monty and The Girls that making prices cheaper with no premium pricing doesn't work.
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