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Post by Steve on Mar 18, 2019 14:18:19 GMT
I wonder what the Pastor thought about her taking this role on? Maybe she’s gay. Maybe this was some way of testing the water with her father. Opening the doors her coming out. Maybe I’m just reading too much into this 😮 I find I'm worried for her, and wish her well.
The idea that a young girl, with a father with detestable views, who opposes those views by taking this role, opposing her family and her "God," could be made an example of for an ill-judged four year old Facebook post, pushed into an impossible corner and spotlight where she may not know up from down, and may have few people or places to turn to, doesn't sit well with me.
Though I think the bigoted interpretation of the Bible she was brainwashed into believing is harmful, to herself and everybody else, she deserves a little human compassion for being born into impossible circumstances.
I mean, Brexit has shown us how anybody will believe anything if it's said often enough, and that's only the Daily Fail and the Murdoch propaganda machine in operation, let alone your own family, your preacher father, his congregation, and your God!
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129 posts
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Post by kulen on Mar 18, 2019 14:19:57 GMT
FFS - this is not about a simple expression of views - it is about bigotry. Denying LGBT+ people their identities because it doesn't conform to her chosen religion is NEVER acceptable. She is the one who is ruining her career by not immediately stepping up and demonstrating how she now repudiates her 2014 position and how she is now fully supportive of LGBT+ rights. Daniel was absolutely right to contact the theatre to ask what the situation would be with regards to refunds in this situation. He isn't trying to ruin anyone's career - he is trying to make sure that he is making an informed choice as to whether to buy a ticket or not. I can't help but feel that if it was bigotry aimed at a different community that perhaps we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It seems that queer-bashing is still something that can be explained away by some. And that depresses me more than I can express. There should be no safe spaces for bigots anywhere. Call them out. Boycott them. Make their lives difficult. Hold them accountable for their hatred. That’s hilarious when the LGBT community stands for love and acceptance when you are calling for her life to be “difficult”, DOUBLE STANDARDS. If u don’t like her views fine but don’t ruin her career!
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Post by Seriously on Mar 18, 2019 14:23:06 GMT
Has she actually done anything to anyone?
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129 posts
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Post by kulen on Mar 18, 2019 14:24:15 GMT
Has she actually done anything to anyone? Nope just put a post on Facebook saying she doesn’t agree with it and she didn’t participate in a pride promotional video (which is fine!)
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 14:24:25 GMT
Bigots should never be allowed to get away with it. Their intolerance and hatred can never be tolerated. They should exposed for what they are.
They are the ones who ruin lives. It is only right that they reap what they sew.
And if you can't see that, then you are part of the problem
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 14:24:52 GMT
FFS - this is not about a simple expression of views - it is about bigotry. Denying LGBT+ people their identities because it doesn't conform to her chosen religion is NEVER acceptable. She is the one who is ruining her career by not immediately stepping up and demonstrating how she now repudiates her 2014 position and how she is now fully supportive of LGBT+ rights. Daniel was absolutely right to contact the theatre to ask what the situation would be with regards to refunds in this situation. He isn't trying to ruin anyone's career - he is trying to make sure that he is making an informed choice as to whether to buy a ticket or not. I can't help but feel that if it was bigotry aimed at a different community that perhaps we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It seems that queer-bashing is still something that can be explained away by some. And that depresses me more than I can express. There should be no safe spaces for bigots anywhere. Call them out. Boycott them. Make their lives difficult. Hold them accountable for their hatred. That’s hilarious when the LGBT community stands for love and acceptance when you are calling for her life to be “difficult”, DOUBLE STANDARDS. If u don’t like her views fine but don’t ruin her career! I don't think he's necessarily advocating ruining her career (I think she's probably doing a fair job of that by herself at the moment) but he's quite rightly highlighting that she should absolutely not be playing this role in this particular show. And that is absolutely correct. Perhaps she can find a show that is more in line with her views to star in?
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Post by sparky5000 on Mar 18, 2019 14:25:26 GMT
Whilst I of course totally disagree with her views and find them problematic given the role she’s taking on, I personally dislike how this has all come about. I don’t think it’s right at all that the Hamilton actor publicly put this all out there on social media without first discussing his concerns with her or the show’s producers etc. The court of social media these days ends careers before people even have a chance to give their side, and that’s not right as far as I am concerned. Maybe her views have evolved. Maybe not. But I doubt it matters now either way. There’s no way I see her continuing in the role.
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Post by Seriously on Mar 18, 2019 14:29:09 GMT
Bigots should never be allowed to get away with it. Their intolerance and hatred can never be tolerated. They should exposed for what they are. They are the ones who ruin lives. It is only right that they reap what they sew. And if you can't see that, then you are part of the problem Well, thanks for letting me know I'm part of the problem. I'll hand back my Gay Card at the next AGM.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 14:31:59 GMT
Bigots should never be allowed to get away with it. Their intolerance and hatred can never be tolerated. They should exposed for what they are. They are the ones who ruin lives. It is only right that they reap what they sew. And if you can't see that, then you are part of the problem Well, thanks for letting me know I'm part of the problem. I'll hand back my Gay Card at the next AGM. If you are not prepared to stand up to anti-LGBT+ bigotry, then I do believe you are part of the problem. It is painful that we still have to have these fights - but we clearly do. We have to keep calling out the bigots and fighting those who question our right to exist. It would be great if we could sit back and say 'job done' - but we can't. We have to stand up and challenge those who seek to deny us basic rights.
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Post by Seriously on Mar 18, 2019 14:37:07 GMT
Well, thanks for letting me know I'm part of the problem. I'll hand back my Gay Card at the next AGM. If you are not prepared to stand up to anti-LGBT+ bigotry, then I do believe you are part of the problem. It is painful that we still have to have these fights - but we clearly do. We have to keep calling out the bigots and fighting those who question our right to exist. It would be great if we could sit back and say 'job done' - but we can't. We have to stand up and challenge those who seek to deny us basic rights. I would stand up to her bigotry by talking to her, and helping her see the error of her ways.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 14:38:48 GMT
Has she actually done anything to anyone? She denied a whole group of people their existence, which is about as bad a discrimination can get, but I'm not sure if it was her speaking or her made up god. She also shows total disrespect for her co-actors, the production and the story itself, by expressing these views. But who knows. She might not be responsible for her views, post and actions at all. What can you do when god takes over.
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806 posts
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Post by duncan on Mar 18, 2019 14:43:14 GMT
There seems to be an awful lot of bigotry and hatred towards religion in this thread about bigotry and hatred.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 14:43:38 GMT
That’s hilarious when the LGBT community stands for love and acceptance when you are calling for her life to be “difficult”, DOUBLE STANDARDS. If u don’t like her views fine but don’t ruin her career! So telling someone off on their hatred views is the same as telling a whole group of people they can't exist based on sexual orientation out of hatred. Interesting view. And claiming others ruin her career is the same as going to the Jerry Springer show and slap the woman your husband slept with and not saying anything to him as if he has no say in what happens in his sex life at all. Blaming the whole world for his sex life. Stupid.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 14:45:11 GMT
There seems to be an awful lot of bigotry and hatred towards religion in this thread about bigotry and hatred. Hating unfounded hatred is a good thing. Are you confused by the difference?
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4,048 posts
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Post by kathryn on Mar 18, 2019 15:02:34 GMT
As an atheist I am deeply uncomfortable with someone being fired for their religious views - which these, as abhorrent as they are - clearly are. Freedom of religion and freedom from religion go hand-in-hand, She should resign How comfortable are you with the fact that she says that people can not be born gay and homosexuality is not right? That the existence of people who were born a certain way is "not right". Freedom of religion and freedom from religion are 2 completely different things. I am not uncomfortable at all with someone being fired for severe discrimination. I don't care where it comes from. I find her views abhorrent. But sometimes you have to defend people's right to express views even when you find them abhorrent. Note: sometimes, not always. This was a privately-expressed view, as far as I am aware. She didn't express this view in her workplace. She didn't, as far as we know, discriminate against anyone - there's no account of her actually treating anyone differently because of their sexuality, and she works in an industry where there are many gay people. I find it hard to believe that such accounts would not have come to light by now if they existed. The fact that she decided to work in a notoriously LGBT-friendly industry and perform in gay-themed shows and even play a gay character is, frankly, bizarre, given her stated view. A bit of me wonders if there's more here than meets the eye. As it stands, her presence in the show will harm the production, and she should recognise that and resign. Legally I don't think the producers can fire her, and morally I don't think they should. It's a bad precedent to set.
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18,916 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 18, 2019 15:04:25 GMT
Let’s not turn on each other here please. I know a lot of this is contentious and feelings run high but please be tolerant of the different opinions and beliefs of members.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 15:05:25 GMT
As it stands, her presence in the show will harm the production, and she should recognise that and resign. She absolutely should do that. Firing her will make her the "victim" in all of this and that will be even worse. I'd prefer that she came on stage and was met by half empty houses and deafening silences after her big number and at the curtain call.
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806 posts
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Post by duncan on Mar 18, 2019 15:08:40 GMT
There seems to be an awful lot of bigotry and hatred towards religion in this thread about bigotry and hatred. Hating unfounded hatred is a good thing. Are you confused by the difference? No, HATE is HATE.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 15:11:57 GMT
When someone uses their religion as the basis for hate, then it is only right to call it out for what it is. That is not hate against a religion - that is legitimate criticism.
People chose whether or not to follow a certain religion - so they must be held accountable for their choices.
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4,048 posts
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Post by kathryn on Mar 18, 2019 15:13:24 GMT
As it stands, her presence in the show will harm the production, and she should recognise that and resign. She absolutely should do that. Firing her will make her the "victim" in all of this and that will be even worse. I'd prefer that she came on stage and was met by half empty houses and deafening silences after her big number and at the curtain call. I'd prefer her to show that she thoroughly repudiates and regrets her previously-expressed views. That would be the best outcome. I'd rather see hearts and minds changed than broken. Second best choice is for her to recognise that her views make her a pariah in the musical theatre community, and for that to prompt her resignation and a period of reflection on her beliefs and how they fit with her chosen career. A poor third choice is for her to go on to empty, silent, houses. The worst possible outcome is the one that makes her a victim of the LGBT community and undermines the freedoms they themselves rely on when facing discrimination - because this is a highly unusual situation, and it's still far more likely that LGBT people will be in jobs where they could be discriminated against for expressing their private views than homophobic bigots will.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 15:13:50 GMT
I've had a good old read of this thread, and nowhere has anyone come close to saying 'all Christians hate gays' or 'All religious people are terrible'
In fact the only person (still) who has made a sweeping and hateful statement about a group of people is the actress in question.
Actors aren't paid to be role models, but it crosses my mind how damaging it would be for a young person to see the show, be inspired, perhaps have some revelation about their sexuality and then google her.
Also the morality of how it was exposed, granted it dubious in some respects, but she put it out there, and it's been shared in the public domain now and that can't be undone. It could be mediated if she renounced those views, though personally i'd still have some discomfort, but clearly she's not going to do that so the point still stands...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 15:15:01 GMT
I've just made a call to the box office asking what will happen if they make the choice for her to continue and whether we will be able to see an alternate or whether they will honour refunds. They've said obviously they won't be able to say anything until an official statement is released, but they've had a number of calls today regarding the situation and they will be putting all concerns forward to the team making decisions. She sounded very much supportive and understanding of my feelings toward it. You must be bored aren’t you? You go to see a SHOW not to hear her speak about her views regarding the LGBTQ+ community. Sad you want to ruin somebody else’s career because you don’t align yourself to her views. are you serious? You think I have nothing better to do than attempt to bring down this woman's career when she's already digging that hole for herself. Maybe I didn't clarify correctly I rang up and simply said "I just wanted to know, because of recent issues that have occurred involving the casting of The Color Purple, I have no intention of seeing this actress if she is in the role, so is there going to be the offer of a alternate in the role or if you will offer refunds if we are uncomfortable with the outcome of the decision? Because myself and several friends have concerns" and the woman was very understanding of these concerns because she said she has had many calls this morning about this same issue. I am perfectly in my right, as a potential audience member, to voice my concern on these kind of issues, because it is important and the Curve and Hippodrome run the risk of alienating a large amount of their regular theatre audiences should they not listen to these concerns. this actress has brought all these problems on herself as she was the one who made the initial posts, and she was the one who made previous people she worked with uncomfortable as recent as less than a year ago.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 18, 2019 15:15:58 GMT
She absolutely should do that. Firing her will make her the "victim" in all of this and that will be even worse. I'd prefer that she came on stage and was met by half empty houses and deafening silences after her big number and at the curtain call. I'd prefer her to show that she thoroughly repudiates and regrets her previously-expressed views. That would be the best outcome. I'd rather see hearts and minds changed than broken. Second best choice is for her to recognise that her views make her a pariah in the musical theatre community, and for that to prompt her resignation and a period of reflection on her beliefs and how they fit with her chosen career. A poor third choice is for her to go on to empty, silent, houses. The worst possible outcome is the one that makes her a victim of the LGBT community and undermines the freedoms they themselves rely on when facing discrimination - because this is a highly unusual situation, and it's still far more likely that LGBT people will be in jobs where they could be discriminated against for expressing their private views than homophobic bigots will. It is far more likely that LGBT+ people will be in jobs where they could be discriminated against for being LGBT+... no matter what the law might currently say.
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4,048 posts
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Post by kathryn on Mar 18, 2019 15:20:37 GMT
That's why it's important to stand by the principle. It's counter-productive in the long term not to - even though it would feel satisfying in the short-term.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 15:31:08 GMT
I fin This was a privately-expressed view, as far as I am aware. We don't know that. Her profile was set to private this weekend.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 15:36:30 GMT
I fin This was a privately-expressed view, as far as I am aware. We don't know that. Her profile was set to private this weekend. You can see from the screenshot of her post that it was originally visible to friends AND friends of friends. So not so private.
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Post by poster J on Mar 18, 2019 15:38:25 GMT
There seems to be an awful lot of bigotry and hatred towards religion in this thread about bigotry and hatred. Hating unfounded hatred is a good thing. Are you confused by the difference? I think the point is more that there have been a lot of sweeping generalisations about religion in this thread. Yes, the extreme conservative Christian views this performer holds are undoubtedly bigoted in any sense of the word, but not all of us who have a faith hold the same views or are like that at all, and any generalisation that all religion is bad is just as narrow-minded and offensive. I'm not saying everyone on here is doing that, far from it - most people completely get the delineations and are keeping the discussion respectful. However, some comments have gone a little too far in my opinion.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 18, 2019 15:46:04 GMT
I've had a good old read of this thread, and nowhere has anyone come close to saying 'all Christians hate gays' or 'All religious people are terrible' In fact the only person (still) who has made a sweeping and hateful statement about a group of people is the actress in question. I completely agree. And that should stay the main focus.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 15:48:06 GMT
There seems to be an awful lot of bigotry and hatred towards religion in this thread about bigotry and hatred. Hating unfounded hatred is a good thing. Are you confused by the difference? I’ve always used the phrase “intolerant of intolerance.” It’s also important to look at where the power lies. So in the matter of Christianity (centuries old institution of power, influence and money) vs LGBT+ rights (nascent with little protection) I think it’s important to speak up on the side without the power. Power + predjudice = racism/sexism/homophobia/islamophobia, otherwise it’s just plain old prejudice and unlikely to cause lasting harm.
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Post by raider80 on Mar 18, 2019 15:57:56 GMT
Maybe they already tried to buy her out but she is playing stubborn. I just hope she understands she might be blacklisted for a few years.
I fear this is going to tarnish the whole production, every review or notice about the show is going to mention this scandal and it is going to leave a black mark over the whole production even if it’s better then Doyle’s from a few years ago.
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